Football: The grind begins

[Jordan La Cabra]

27 minutes ago, baxus said:

That would definitely be an interesting move.

I don't see why Sterling would want out of City, though. It's not likely that Arsenal can increase his City wages, he'd be leaving a Champions League team and a serious Premiership title contender for a Europa League team that's not really given people reason to think of them as title contenders. After all, it's not as if he is not playing for City, even when he's not starting. The only plus for Arsenal would be that Sterling would be living in London, which I assume would be quite an improvement on Manchester.

I agree. The positives of the move would be far greater for Arsenal than Sterling. Last year, I thought he had improved significantly for the first time since the 13/14 season with Liverpool. So far this season, he has already scored twice in the league, with goals that have won Man City 4 of their 7 points.

He'd be dropping from a Champions League team to a Europa League one, and a title contending side to one that would lucky to make top 4 this year. The only positives for Sterling is that with the dearth of quality at Arsenal, he'd surely start most games; at City, he would be continue to be part of a rotation.

As you mention, the London thing may be important to him, too, as he is a London lad.

 

In terms of the potential Ox to Chelsea deal, as a Chelsea fan, I'd have taken that at the start of the summer. But after his showing - and that is being polite to the lad - against Liverpool, I'm not so sure. I've read - not sure it is 100% true - that he is an Arsenal fan; if this is how his act at his boyhood club, how would he act at some random club?

It feels a bit funny to me that after finally breaking into the first team after 7 years, he wants to leave. There must be something else going on that he isn't happy about. Perhaps he has become disillusioned with Wenger, like many of the fans have.

[Daemon the Leaner]

Do you think that Wenger could sell Sanchez to a PL rival club ? I don't think so. City have failed to sign him weeks ago, they will not succeed now. I think that if Sanchez leaves it is for either Bayern or Juventus, though as a United fan I would love to see him with a n°7 shirt in Old Trafford haha

Meanwhile, can we all take a minute to consider Liverpool's transfer window ? Solanke, Salah, Keita, Grujic. Where are the defensive signings ? Does Jurgen Flopp really think LFC can be title contenders without solving any defensive problem ? 

[Consigliere]

3 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

John Cross reporting that Man City have offered Arsenal a cash plus player bid for Alexis. Rumours that the player is Sterling. 

I'd be shocked by that, as I thought Sterling was a player Guardiola was fond of. Depending on the fee, it could be a good deal for Arsenal.

Simon Mullock who is way more reliable when it comes to Man City news says that these rumours are false. City want a cash only deal.

[The Sunland Lord]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

Wenger has taken the club through a difficult period where they needed money to build the new stadium and also keep them near the top where they can keep making enough money through Champions League bonuses. He'd done a great job at that. He kept Arsenal in the Champions League for 17 or 18 consecutive years and I don't think that people appreciate how big of a success that itself is. In addition, he's won a few FA Cups in recent years, so "he hasn't won anything of significance for more than a decade" really does not have basis in reality.

That being said, it has become clear in recent years that he is not the manager that could take Arsenal back to the top of the league and turn them into a serious Champions League contender. To make matters worse, he has signed some world class players and failed to make the most of it.

There is only one reason why the board wants to keep Wenger, and it's not sports-related, it's purely financial. As long as he keeps them in the black with quite a margin, they won't see the need to make the change.

Yes I am aware that he is there for financial reasons, as I said, being in CL every year was his ace. Now for this season he lost it. Everything falls apart in these situations: stars are unmotivated, no CL=no money, and the bad results come as a product from that. 

Few cups are significant only for smaller clubs who want to get an Europa League place. They mean nothing to big clubs, so it doesn't matter really. Unless you win a treble, so it's kind of a big deal.

 

[Mexal]

9 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Yes I am aware that he is there for financial reasons, as I said, being in CL every year was his ace. Now for this season he lost it. Everything falls apart in these situations: stars are unmotivated, no CL=no money, and the bad results come as a product from that. 

Few cups are significant only for smaller clubs who want to get an Europa League place. They mean nothing to big clubs, so it doesn't matter really. Unless you win a treble, so it's kind of a big deal.

FA Cups matter, which is why there were 250k or more people at the parades. Fans are happy for any trophy. They want the league but they'll take the FA Cup and winning the FA Cup is an accomplishment. Does CL matter? Yea, sure, it's what every player wants to play in, but the reality of today's football is that it'll be incredibly tough for English sides to compete against the European super clubs with winter breaks.

[The Sunland Lord]

16 minutes ago, Mexal said:

FA Cups matter, which is why there were 250k or more people at the parades. Fans are happy for any trophy. They want the league but they'll take the FA Cup and winning the FA Cup is an accomplishment. Does CL matter? Yea, sure, it's what every player wants to play in, but the reality of today's football is that it'll be incredibly tough for English sides to compete against the European super clubs with winter breaks.

It may serve fans some instant happiness, but for the club, I don't think it's such a big deal.

However, Wenger is done, that's my point.

[Jordan La Cabra]

42 minutes ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Do you think that Wenger could sell Sanchez to a PL rival club ? I don't think so. City have failed to sign him weeks ago, they will not succeed now. I think that if Sanchez leaves it is for either Bayern or Juventus, though as a United fan I would love to see him with a n°7 shirt in Old Trafford haha

 

Juve don't need Alexis nor have they been linked to him, really. Bayern were, but have on a good few occasions ruled themselves out of any deal for him given his price and his age. Man City appear to be the only likely destination.

 

39 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Simon Mullock who is way more reliable when it comes to Man City news says that these rumours are false. City want a cash only deal.

I thought it was strange to begin with. Man City could get 3 good seasons out of Alexis, whereas Sterling has another decade at the top. We haven't even seen his best yet. With Alexis, his peak may have come and gone.

[Consigliere]

Kieran Gibbs close to joining West Brom and rumour has it that Arsenal have entered the race for Jonny Evans.

[Mexal]

22 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

It may serve fans some instant happiness, but for the club, I don't think it's such a big deal.

However, Wenger is done, that's my point.

It's a point we all agree with.

[baxus]

1 hour ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Meanwhile, can we all take a minute to consider Liverpool's transfer window ? Solanke, Salah, Keita, Grujic. Where are the defensive signings ? Does Jurgen Flopp really think LFC can be title contenders without solving any defensive problem ? 

Grujic has been signed a year and a half ago. He was on loan at his previous club, Crvena Zvezda Belgrade, for the second half of 2015/2016 season, and was at Liverpool the whole last season. He took some time to adapt to the whole new level and had some injuries that surely didn't help his cause of establishing himself as a player in rotation for the league matches so that's probably why you don't remember him.

Keita will join next season, so he doesn't really count for this campaign, since he can't help Liverpool until July 2018.

23 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

It may serve fans some instant happiness, but for the club, I don't think it's such a big deal.

However, Wenger is done, that's my point.

Wenger is most definitely not done yet. His position is shaky, and that's an understatement, but he's far not done just yet.

12 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Kieran Gibbs close to joining West Brom and rumour has it that Arsenal have entered the race for Jonny Evans.

Could you imagine our collective reaction if someone told us 3-4 years ago that City and Arsenal would be after Jonny Evans?  

[Consigliere]

27 minutes ago, baxus said:

Could you imagine our collective reaction if someone told us 3-4 years ago that City and Arsenal would be after Jonny Evans?  

While Evans has performed really well for WBA, I suspect that much of that is down to playing style. WBA sit deep and compact so I don't think Evans is the answer for either City or Arsenal. It's a strange one.

[Mme Erzulie]

58 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Juve don't need Alexis nor have they been linked to him, really. Bayern were, but have on a good few occasions ruled themselves out of any deal for him given his price and his age. Man City appear to be the only likely destination.

Didn't he play for Juve before Barca? I guess it's not unheard of for players to return to a club, but it's not like it's his childhood club or anything.

 

1 hour ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Meanwhile, can we all take a minute to consider Liverpool's transfer window ? Solanke, Salah, Keita, Grujic. Where are the defensive signings ? Does Jurgen Flopp really think LFC can be title contenders without solving any defensive problem ? 

As Baxus pointed out, Grujic is not a new signing. And what's becoming increasingly apparent with Klopp is that he'd rather wait a year for the right player than panic buy a stop-gap solution. I do think we need a better keeper to win the PL (and potentially other trophies), and getting VVD would be a massive boost to our defence. But I don't necessarily buying anyone who's going is a better solution than sticking with what we've got for the next season.

But if we get Lemar and VVD, I think you'd have a hard time arguing anyone (in the PL) other than Man U have had a better transfer window. 

[Consigliere]

5 minutes ago, Mme Erzulie said:

Didn't he play for Juve before Barca?

Nope. he played for Udinese.

[Jordan La Cabra]

19 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

While Evans has performed really well for WBA, I suspect that much of that is down to playing style. WBA sit deep and compact so I don't think Evans is the answer for either City or Arsenal. It's a strange one.

I would feel more confident if I supported either Arsenal or Man City and Evans was lining up ahead of Holding/Monreal/Mert/Chambers at Arsenal and ahead of Stones/Mangala and perhaps even Otamendi at Man City. Evans isn't a world beater, nor is he the answer to the problems of either team, but he is an allround defender and would be a good addition to either team.

 

9 minutes ago, Mme Erzulie said:

Didn't he play for Juve before Barca? I guess it's not unheard of for players to return to a club, but it's not like it's his childhood club or anything.

. 

It was Udinese in Serie A he played for before. 

But going on from what you said about players returning to a previous club, I am slightly surprised Barcelona didn't show an interest in him again. He didn't set the world alight, but he would be an improvement to their squad after the loss of Neymar. I think Dembele may need time to settle in, given his age, so someone like Alexis, who knows the club and the league, might have been a good player to bring back.

[Consigliere]

I think that it is not only the big transfer fee but also Sanchez's rumored wage demands (apparently around £400k/week) that are stumbling blocks. Not many clubs would be prepared to pay that for a soon to be 29 year old player in the last year of his contract which is why links have been restricted to just City (and Bayern early on who quickly ruled themselves out). If Sanchez stays with Arsenal then other clubs may look to get involved in January over a pre contract agreement for a free transfer next season. Paying his exorbitant wages would be more palatable if you don't have to pay a premium transfer fee as well.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Those were the demands he was making to Arsenal, though. To me, it felt like he was saying that's what kind of silly money it would take to convince him to stay there.

Are Man City really going to offer him that much? That would make him by far their highest paid player (Aguero is on around £240K) and by far the highest paid player in the league, surpassing Pogba's £280K by £120K. 

If Alexis believes he deserves to be that far ahead on the money earnings, he is from another planet. No one will pay that, not even PSG.

[Mexal]

Here's the thing about Arsenal's defense. A lot is focused on the back 3/4 and I get that as they are part of the issue but most goals we give up are due to the midfield. Xhaka has been directly responsible for giving up the ball 3 times in terrible areas, which have lead to quick counter attacks. Should the defense be able to stop that? Sure, maybe, but those situations are particularly tough to defend. There are also situations where our CM is playing CF so the only cover in the MF is Xhaka which does not work (especially if he loses the ball then tries to win it back, then there is no one in the midfield at all) or our wing backs are jogging back (watch Ox in the first 3 games).

I would much prefer we sort out the midfield (sell Ramsey, Chamberlain) to bring balance back to the team (find a legitimate Kante/Matic type player to play alongside Xhaka and put Bellerin back in the position he's capable of playing which is RB), get rid of Ozil (he's too slow in possession these days and adds nothing to a press) then go panic buy Johnny Evans.

We'll see. I still think that no matter what happens in the next few days, Arsenal will still have a bloated squad, will still have the same issues it's had the last 5 years and will still be terrible to watch.

[Mark Antony]

3 hours ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Jurgen Flopp

 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

I think that it is not only the big transfer fee but also Sanchez's rumored wage demands (apparently around £400k/week) that are stumbling blocks. Not many clubs would be prepared to pay that for a soon to be 29 year old player in the last year of his contract which is why links have been restricted to just City (and Bayern early on who quickly ruled themselves out). If Sanchez stays with Arsenal then other clubs may look to get involved in January over a pre contract agreement for a free transfer next season. Paying his exorbitant wages would be more palatable if you don't have to pay a premium transfer fee as well.

Bingo. That's why Bayern decided not following up on their interest in Sanchez. Thex simply did the math.

60m € transfer fee. Then it's roughly 10m € in annual salaries for 4 years. And you have spent 100m € on Sanchez to improve the rather slim chance to win the CL. Only EPL teams, China, Paris, Barca and Madrid are spitting out those sums without having second thoughts.

 

[ljkeane]

Liverpool apparently turned down a bid of £22 million plus about £3 million in add ons for Sakho. That seems a little odd, we're clearly not going to play him so you might as well take that sort of money. They must think Palace are really desperate.