Football: The grind begins

[Mark Antony]

1 minute ago, ljkeane said:

They must think Palace are really desperate.

Aren't they? They've been atrocious so far and Sakho was arguably their best player during his loan spell. I think they'll cough up the extra 5 mil or whatever. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, Mme Erzulie said:

But if we get Lemar and VVD, I think you'd have a hard time arguing anyone (in the PL) other than Man U have had a better transfer window. 

City might want to get mentioned, I'd think.

5 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

In terms of the potential Ox to Chelsea deal, as a Chelsea fan, I'd have taken that at the start of the summer. But after his showing - and that is being polite to the lad - against Liverpool, I'm not so sure. I've read - not sure it is 100% true - that he is an Arsenal fan; if this is how his act at his boyhood club, how would he act at some random club?

It feels a bit funny to me that after finally breaking into the first team after 7 years, he wants to leave. There must be something else going on that he isn't happy about. Perhaps he has become disillusioned with Wenger, like many of the fans have.

To me it looks more like that team is broken. As mentioned in my previous post on Arsenal, I think they have a very good squad, with one hole (the hold up midfielder to play alongside Xhaka and cover for him). But the way they are performing, and how badly almost everybody wants out, suggests there are other factors at play than the individual quality ot the players. A good team is better than the sum of its individual parts (arguably United under Ferguson did better than one would expect, esp. with their last league title), and with Arsenal it just seems to be exact opposite.

[Iskaral Pust]

I agree with the post above that Evans will probably struggle at City or Arsenal.  The style of defending is completely different from WBA.  He doesn't have the pace or the passing ability.  He'll be less naive than some of the CBs at those clubs, but a high line with little or no DM shield and FBs way up the field will leave him badly exposed.  The CB needs to be a superman in some of these attacking teams, Liverpool included. 

The Sakho situation is fun.  Fans get to vicariously participate in brinkmanship negotiations without any of their own money at stake.  Liverpool are making a reasonable gamble that Palace's terrible start and the potential sale of Evans by WBA creates demand for a CB.  We all know that 30m is possible now for any PL team to afford.  That doesn't mean that Liverpool will get it but it's FSG's money to risk. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

22 minutes ago, Notone said:

To me it looks more like that team is broken. As mentioned in my previous post on Arsenal, I think they have a very good squad, with one hole (the hold up midfielder to play alongside Xhaka and cover for him). But the way they are performing, and how badly almost everybody wants out, suggests there are other factors at play than the individual quality ot the players. A good team is better than the sum of its individual parts (arguably United under Ferguson did better than one would expect, esp. with their last league title), and with Arsenal it just seems to be exact opposite.

I'd also say that there is a hole at CB. Arsenal have sold Gabriel, Mustafi looks like he is on his way out, too. Mert is in his last season at the club. Holding is young and, frankly, not good enough to start; Chambers, while young and probably better than Holding, hasn't had a look in so far this season. Koscielny is a brilliant CB, but his on going achilles problem means he will never play every match. The fact Monreal has become a CB says it all.

What you say about Sir Alex's Man United teams over achieveing is quite apt. Some of his Man United squads, particularly his final one, did far better than they should, when you analyse the individuals. The reasons for this was simple; they all believed in the manager. Arsenal have underachieved for years, with better players, because it's quite clear they don't believe in the manager or the club, hence why so many want out.

I respect Arsene Wenger as one of the greatest managers in the history of English football, but it is clear his time has gone.

 

Interesting news coming out of Sky regarding Sanchez:

Sky are saying that there is some truth in the Sterling/Sanchez swap. But apparently it is Arsenal that want Sterling in the deal, not Man City, and Arsenal are willing to pay Man City cash plus Alexis in order to get him.

That makes a bit more sense than the angle John Cross was giving. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Iskaral Pust said:

The Sakho situation is fun.  Fans get to vicariously participate in brinkmanship negotiations without any of their own money at stake.  Liverpool are making a reasonable gamble that Palace's terrible start and the potential sale of Evans by WBA creates demand for a CB.  We all know that 30m is possible now for any PL team to afford.  That doesn't mean that Liverpool will get it but it's FSG's money to risk. 

Yes, but on the other hand, Klopp will probably be happy to get that sideshow/distraction solved. So Liverpool also has an interest to sell him, beyond the monetary considerations. An unsatisfied player lurking around the team, with a 4 am online rant on a matchday, who needs/wants that?

[Mark Antony]

Idk why City would do that. Sterling is still young as hell and already really good. His finishing needs some improvement but he's already rescued City twice this season. Think it would be dumb for City to lose him when they could probably snag Alexis on a free next summer  

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I'd also say that there is a hole at CB. Arsenal have sold Gabriel, Mustafi looks like is on his way out too. Mert is in his last season at the club. Holding is young and, frankly, not good enough to start; Chambers, while young and probably better than Holding, hasn't had a look in so far this season. Koscielny is a brilliant CB, but his on going achilles problem means he will never play every match. The fact Monreal has become a CB says it all.

That's secondary imo. That hold up midfielder would restore some more (well quite a bit more) balance to the overall team. As long as they can't fix that no centreback alone will help them.

5 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

What you say about Sir Alex's Man United teams over achieveing is quite apt. Some of his Man United squads, particularly his final one, did far better than they should, when you analyse the individuals. The reasons for this was simple; they all believed in the manager. Arsenal have underachieved for years, with better players, because it's quite clear they don't believe in the manager or the club, hence why so many want out.

Yes, that plays a part, but I think the squad chemistry isn't that great either. Not sure whether there are no dressing room leaders, or if there are several cliques not getting along, but I'd guess Wenger did not pay enough attention to the players' characters/personalities when he assembled that squad.

[Daemon the Leaner]

3 hours ago, Mme Erzulie said:

But if we get Lemar and VVD, I think you'd have a hard time arguing anyone (in the PL) other than Man U have had a better transfer window. 

Honestly, if you get both of them, then your transfer window is FAR better that United's. But Lemar is 100M and VVD is awkwardly 60M, so... I doubt that Liverpool's purchases are not over. I get what youd said about Klopp's transfer policy but I think you still need at list one good defender to be title contenders. Either Swansea's Mawson or Everton's Jagielka could perfeclty match, in my opinion.

[polishgenius]

Think Everton have had the best transfer window. Huddersfield seem to have had a really good one as well.

 

19 minutes ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Either Swansea's Mawson or Everton's Jagielka could perfeclty match, in my opinion.

 

Are you having a joke?

[Consigliere]

I think Liverpool are doing the right thing holding out for more money for Sakho. Palace are desperate and their defending is embarrassing so I expect that they will fork out the £30m or whatever for Sakho and Liverpool know this too. It's good business.

[polishgenius]

Renato Sanches might be going on loan. To Swansea.

That came out of left-field.

[l2 0 5 5]

Don't know where Ox would play if he came to Chelsea. Challenge Moses for RWB? He wants to play center mid and that isn't going to happen in Conte's XI. From his perspective, bad move to come here. Won't be getting as much playing time as he wants, and won't be playing the position he wants. From our perspective, adds depth which is needed, but is that kind of depth worth 35m? I'm leaning towards no.

[Jordan La Cabra]

19 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Don't know where Ox would play if he came to Chelsea. Challenge Moses for RWB? He wants to play center mid and that isn't going to happen in Conte's XI. From his perspective, bad move to come here. Won't be getting as much playing time as he wants, and won't be playing the position he wants. From our perspective, adds depth which is needed, but is that kind of depth worth 35m? I'm leaning towards no.

I agree. He is only going to face the same problems he has encountered at Arsenal. Arsenal play the same system as Chelsea - since they copied us - and in that system, he is a wing back; he has never played centre midfield for Arsenal in the 343. He did play centre midfield for England in that system once, but had a poor game.

Realistically, I can't see Conte playing Ox in centre midfield. If he is signing him, it is competition for Moses and Alonso, as he has also played on the left hand side for Arsenal. 

He's essentially leaving the positional problems he has at one club to join another club that will play him in the same position that he doesn't like playing in, but will have a far greater chance of winning the Premier League. 

[Melphis Amekia]

So, Everton signed Nikola Vlašić from Hajduk for 9 mil pounds after those performances he made against them in the EL. A big blow to Hajduk's domestic title chances because he was by far the best player, but glad to see him go to a good club. Apparently they're also gonna loan him somewhere else for the season, but honestly I think he could fight for the spot at the bench *at least*.

[Mexal]

Motherfucker. Just leave Arsenal please.

https://twitter.com/bbcsport_david/status/902666062390579213

This 2nd tweet lines up with what some people here have been talking about.

https://twitter.com/bbcsport_david/status/902667280806531073

[Mark Antony]

Hmmm seems like we are trying are hardest to get Lemar but if that doesn't happen I wouldn't mind Ox for depth  

not gonna lie it feels kinda nice to see a player wanting to come to us over Chelsea for once. Even if it is just a matter of him not wanting to play wing back

[Rorshach]

13 hours ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Either Swansea's Mawson or Everton's Jagielka could perfeclty match, in my opinion.

If anyone from the Liverpool transfer board reads this, I would heartily reccomend the signing of Jagielka for €30-40m. After all, he's proven PL material, an English international, and at 35, he's still got some years ahead of him (at least before he passes away). 

Wonderful suggestion!

[Mme Erzulie]

13 hours ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Honestly, if you get both of them, then your transfer window is FAR better that United's. But Lemar is 100M and VVD is awkwardly 60M, so... I doubt that Liverpool's purchases are not over. I get what youd said about Klopp's transfer policy but I think you still need at list one good defender to be title contenders. Either Swansea's Mawson or Everton's Jagielka could perfeclty match, in my opinion.

We'll see. I judge transfer windows by how good and well-balanced the team looks at the end of them rather than how many players they brought in. Man U weakened two other clubs, one of them a direct rival, and addressed the biggest weaknesses in their own team. They also didn't lose any players they didn't want to lose.

 

15 hours ago, Notone said:

City might want to get mentioned, I'd think.

True. I wasn't following football that closely last season, and while Monaco's meteoric rise registered with me, I don't really know many of the players that well (apart from Mbappe). Don't really know Danilo or Ederson either, and £50 million for Kyle Walker seems like questionable business, at best. But they've obviously got an impressive squad.

13 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Think Everton have had the best transfer window. Huddersfield seem to have had a really good one as well.

I think it's a case of quantity over quality with Everton, although I might be wrong. It reminds me a little of Liverpool's summer 2014 window, when we brought in Balotelli, Lovren, Markovic, Lambert, Origi, Lallana, Moreno and Can. Out of those, only Can and Lallana can be said to be successes, but it took a couple of seasons for them (and Moreno?) to come good. Rooney has started well, and I was impressed with Pickford last season (but you could argue that it's easier to look good as a GK for a shit team), and Gylfi will obviously give them an added threat on set pieces, but I still remember him "flopping" at Spurs. Also, they did lose one of the deadliest strikers in the league. I somehow doubt Sandro is gonna fill his boots. 

Huddersfield I think might have done some very shrewd business.

9 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

He's essentially leaving the positional problems he has at one club to join another club that will play him in the same position that he doesn't like playing in, but will have a far greater chance of winning the Premier League. 

To be fair to him, he turned Chelsea down.

And looking at transfers by club, Jesus Christ, Chelsea have a bloated squad.

Outgoing transfers:

Juan Cuadrado - Juventus, £17.3m

Christian Atsu - Newcastle, £6.2m

Asmir Begovic - Bournemouth, undisclosed

Dominic Solanke - Liverpool, fee by tribunal

John Terry - Aston Villa, free

Alex Davey - released

Fankaty Dabo - Vitesse, loan

Bertrand Traore - Lyon, £8.8m

Nathan Ake - Bournemouth, £20m

Tammy Abraham - Swansea, loan

Kasey Plamer - Huddersfield, loan

Bradley Collins - Forest Green, loan

Charlie Colkett - Vitesse Arnhem, loan

Ola Aina - Hull City, loan

Mukhtar Ali - Vitesse, undisclosed

Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Crystal Palace, loan

Nathan Baxter - Woking, loan

Alex Kiwomya - Doncaster, free

Josimar Quintero - Rostov, loan

Todd Kane - Groningen, loan

Nathan Chalobah - Watford, undisclosed

Lucas Piazon - Fulham, loan

Marco Van Ginkel - PSV Eindhoven, loan

Ike Ugbo - Barnsley, loan

Jay Dasilva - Charlton, loan

Kurt Zouma - Stoke, loan

Mason Mount - Vitesse, loan

Nemanja Matic - Man Utd, £40m

Izzy Brown - Brighton, loan

Jamal Blackman - Sheffield United, loan

Michael Hector - Hull, loan

Tomas Kalas - Fulham, loan

Matt Miagza - Vitesse, loan

Bekanty Victorien Angban - Waasland-Beveren, loan

Mario Pasalic - Spartak Moscow, loan

Lewis Baker - Middlesbrough, loan

Why any young player would ever go to Chelsea in hopes of getting playing time is beyond my comprehension.

[Melphis Amekia]

37 minutes ago, Mme Erzulie said:

 

Mario Pasalic - Spartak Moscow, loan

Why any young player would ever go to Chelsea in hopes of getting playing time is beyond my comprehension.

In Pašalić's case, it was the club having to survive at the time which lead to him being sold to Chelsea. I still think he should have been given a proper chance at Chelsea, given that every single loan spell he had was a huge success - which were Elche, Monaco and Milan respectively, and he now got off to a great start at Spartak Moscow.