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Bakker L - Unholy Consultation and Collaboration (Now with TUC Spoilers!)

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40 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I think we were going to wait for the next thread, but both this and the spoiler one seem to have lost momentum.

Lol. Wonder why?

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55 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Now you're just tempting me.

Lol. Well, clearly the focus has shifted away from the books. Why? Because, this always happens with Bakker. He's divisive and people can't just discuss the books, but everything else that happens around them, which really means Jack shit, tbh. You don't like them, fine. You do? Great! But, the conversation always goes to AMA's and who read what before the books were released and whatever else so concerns the denizens of these threads. 

More, books to come. Plenty of speculation. Instead of Bakker "lied", Madness "lied"....who really gives a shit. Bakker owes us nothing and can be as ambiguous in his answers in Q&A's and AMA's as he likes. He has no obligation whatsoever to give us answers and especially ones the will ruin future plot points. 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Lol. Well, clearly the focus has shifted away from the books. Why? Because, this always happens with Bakker. He's divisive and people can't just discuss the books, but everything else that happens around them, which really means Jack shit, tbh. You don't like them, fine. You do? Great! But, the conversation always goes to AMA's and who read what before the books were released and whatever else so concerns the denizens of these threads. 

More, books to come. Plenty of speculation. Instead of Bakker "lied", Madness "lied"....who really gives a shit. Bakker owes us nothing and can be as ambiguous in his answers in Q&A's and AMA's as he likes. He has no obligation whatsoever to give us answers and especially ones the will ruin future plot points. 

Actually it's because while the last book has it's moments and there are things it does really well, it was kind of a let down.  It's tough to sit here and speculate about character arcs and plotlines that just dropped off the face of Earwa.  Especially as a final installment, it kind of fails (imo).  I will reread it at some point.   And with the uncertainty of whether or not anything else will ever be published, I personally just don't have a lot to say about it anymore.  Probably if the next installment actually seems like something that'll happen I'd be happy to sit here and speculate.  

 

Agree that Bakker has no obligation to his readers and that he has been pretty opaque in discussing the books overall.  You'll notice that the first paragraph I wrote here is discussing the series, not the author.  For what it's worth, it was cool to see a series I was so intrigued by finished.  No one can take that away from Bakker.  At the same time, I think that compared to the first five books, the final two were definitely inferior.  

Edited by larrytheimp
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14 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Actually it's because while the last book has it's moments and there are things it does really well, it was kind of a let down.  It's tough to sit here and speculate about character arcs and plotlines that just dropped off the face of Earwa.  Especially as a final installment, it kind of fails (imo).  I will reread it at some point.   And with the uncertainty of whether or not anything else will ever be published, I personally just don't have a lot to say about it anymore.  Probably if the next installment actually seems like something that'll happen I'd be happy to sit here and speculate.  

 

Agree that Bakker has no obligation to his readers and that he has been pretty opaque in discussing the books overall.  You'll notice that the first paragraph I wrote here is discussing the series, not the author.  For what it's worth, it was cool to see a series I was so intrigued by finished.  No one can take that away from Bakker.  At the same time, I think that compared to the first five books, the final two were definitely inferior.  

 

I agree Larry. But, we've known for a long time that TSTSNBN is part of the series. Please read my post in the other thread. I covered this there.

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Spoiler

Probably cause of the part of the AMA where it turns out all the specualtion was pointless and all the dpeth we thought was depth turned out to be an accident? We;ve been over this like 30 times.

 

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1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:
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Probably cause of the part of the AMA where it turns out all the specualtion was pointless and all the dpeth we thought was depth turned out to be an accident? We;ve been over this like 30 times.

 

I guess I just took that different from you and others. There is a ton of speculation that isn't pointless. And, to say these books are not full of depth is a very weird statement. Its the depth of the series that makes it so great. What I think k he intended by that statement, and it's my own opinion, is that everything at the Ark was what Bakker calls a Crash Space. Where all these intertwining plot and narratives come to a single place and, well, crash. The meaningless part, I took to be the rise of TNG and his meaningless he is bringing or, rather, trying to shut from the world. You can say that's me trying to make it something different than what was said. But, again, all of Bakkers comments are either ambiguous or I straight up don't understand in the slight what he means. Eh, just my thoughts on it. What makes your interpretation the correct one? When we know from Bakker that he tends to be even more ambiguous in his answers in these thing than maybe even in his books. Why are you so certain that all the depth of the previous books are meaningless and will have no pay out in the future series?

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Probably because when asked about the answers to a ot of the speculation and questions Bakker answered that HE DIDN'T KNOW. Pull your head out your ass.

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Ah. I just ask cause there was a lot of confusion before TGO got published as to why it was held up/who wanted it to be split, etc.

 

But yah if the typo changes were submitted but not actually changed,that's balls. Also who ever wrote the blurbs for the last two should be slapped with a fish.

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Who are all these people who know intimate details about Bakker's books?

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I think a better non grumpy way to put it is that we all assumed Bakker had a plan the whole time when it turned out in the end he was making it up as he went.

2 hours ago, Hello World said:

Who are all these people who know intimate details about Bakker's books?

You ever see that movie Split?

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

You ever see that movie Split?

You're such a fucking dick. This legit made me laugh so hard I dribbled AMP into my goatee, and now I can't stop.

Bravo Dr. Caustic.

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

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16 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Bakker owes us nothing and can be as ambiguous in his answers in Q&A's and AMA's as he likes. He has no obligation whatsoever to give us answers and especially ones the will ruin future plot points. 

I'm fine with ambiguity. I'm not fine with lying. Bakker did that with his comments about Cnaiur's arc being done. There's a huge difference between RAFO and deception.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Cithrin's Ale said:

I'm fine with ambiguity. I'm not fine with lying. Bakker did that with his comments about Cnaiur's arc being done. There's a huge difference between RAFO and deception.

Yep, I agree. That's what he does though and why I put no merit into his answers that have room for something else to be made of it.

Example- "Kellhus is dead" then later on everyone was hooting and hollering about Bakker being a liar when he said at the Con that while dead Kellhus isn't done. But, I already knew this. Because, in the world of Earwa, "Kellhus is dead" doesn't actually mean much, does it?

Example 2- "That which comes after determines that which comes before." Well, yes, it's been speculated on in this very forum that it could be the case. But, it's not universally true. Seswatha preceded the Mandate, the 1st apocalypse preceded the 2nd and Nonmen preceded men just to name a few. So, from his answer everyone assume it the universal truth of Earwa when its not. The paradox is that they are both true.

Sorry, forgot which thread we are in. Hope I didn't ruin anything for anyone.

Edited by Michael Seswatha Jordan

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10 hours ago, Hello World said:

Who are all these people who know intimate details about Bakker's books?

Pretty much anyone who posted on TSA is a beta reader or draft reader, as far as I can tell. 

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8 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

You're such a fucking dick. This legit made me laugh so hard I dribbled AMP into my goatee, and now I can't stop.

Bravo Dr. Caustic.

I'm at my best when I'm barely awake!

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18 hours ago, Cithrin's Ale said:

I'm fine with ambiguity. I'm not fine with lying. Bakker did that with his comments about Cnaiur's arc being done. There's a huge difference between RAFO and deception.

My eyes are just not flexible enough to adequately roll them at this. Gimme a break.

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1 hour ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

My eyes are just not flexible enough to adequately roll them at this. Gimme a break.

I agree though.

Giving deliberately false information is entirely different than being ambiguous.  It's not like Robert Jordan ever stood up there, lied and said "Lanfear killed Asmodean."  He said he thought it should be obvious and all the evidence was there, which was frustratingly ambiguous... but a legit answer.

Saying Cnauir was done was patently false and misleading.

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