Samwell_Tarly

The White Walkers

19 posts in this topic

Probably a topic thats been covered but none the less let the discussion commence.

Why have we not seen any female WW's?

What do they actually want?

Any other questions you have we can try answer etc. I have many theories about the white walkers which ill slow integrate into the discussion.

 

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20 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Probably a topic thats been covered but none the less let the discussion commence.

Why have we not seen any female WW's?

What do they actually want?

Any other questions you have we can try answer etc. I have many theories about the white walkers which ill slow integrate into the discussion.

 

No female White Walkers because they are Craster's sons.  I actually made a post about this a couple weeks ago.  My question then was why we don't see more of them.  I imagine Craster had to have had a bunch of sons based on the amount of daughters/wives he had.  We always see like 5-6 WW at a time.  I imagine Craster has had more than 5-6 boys in all the years he has been holed up at his keep. The other question I had was why we don't see WW kids.  If they are being turned as babies, why don't we see them as young WW.  Or even WW teens?  If their aging is accelerated, does that mean they have a short lifespan?  Seems weird that something could grow up so fast, only to be frozen in time as old WW.  it's all very weird and we are SO far into the show to have not been given much backstory on the WW...

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

No female White Walkers because they are Craster's sons.I actually made a post about this a couple weeks ago.  My question then was why we don't see more of them.  I imagine Craster had to have had a bunch of sons based on the amount of daughters/wives he had.  We always see like 5-6 WW at a time.  I imagine Craster has had more than 5-6 boys in all the years he has been holed up at his keep. The other question I had was why we don't see WW kids.  If they are being turned as babies, why don't we see them as young WW.  Or even WW teens?  If their aging is accelerated, does that mean they have a short lifespan?  Seems weird that something could grow up so fast, only to be frozen in time as old WW.  it's all very weird and we are SO far into the show to have not been given much backstory on the WW...

Saying they are no female white walkers because there are craster's sons doesnt answer the question lol. We know there was atleast one female WW who married the 13th Lord Commander of the Nights watch. Was this a marriage pact to as part of the peace treaty between the WW and realm?

There has to be a reason why he needs human sacrafices, can they not reproduce? 

Why did that WW leave Sam alone and not kill him. 

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

No female White Walkers because they are Craster's sons.  I actually made a post about this a couple weeks ago.  My question then was why we don't see more of them.  I imagine Craster had to have had a bunch of sons based on the amount of daughters/wives he had.  We always see like 5-6 WW at a time.  I imagine Craster has had more than 5-6 boys in all the years he has been holed up at his keep. The other question I had was why we don't see WW kids.  If they are being turned as babies, why don't we see them as young WW.  Or even WW teens?  If their aging is accelerated, does that mean they have a short lifespan?  Seems weird that something could grow up so fast, only to be frozen in time as old WW.  it's all very weird and we are SO far into the show to have not been given much backstory on the WW...

Sorry didnt fully respond. I think regarding the actually process of ageing, creation and the WW powers etc will be addressed at a later stage maybe part of the conclusion of everything at the end. Again there is so much more I want to know about them and I hope we get a lot of flash backs from bran about them. But for now we can only speculate with the evidence and facts we have.

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

No female White Walkers because they are Craster's sons. 

Not all WW are Craster's sons. The Night King is thousands of years old and was one of the first men; he was captured by a CotF, who stuck a dragonglass dagger into his heart and turned him into a White Walker. Presumably there are many WWs left over from when the CotF started turning first men into WW during the war between the first men and the CotF.

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1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Not all WW are Craster's sons. The Night King is thousands of years old and was one of the first men; he was captured by a CotF, who stuck a dragonglass dagger into his heart and turned him into a White Walker. Presumably there are many WWs left over from when the CotF started turning first men into WW during the war between the first men and the CotF.

  1. We dont know if the CotF turned more than one person into a WW.....
  2. Potentially the Night King could be Crasters son.....(highly unlikely) but we dont know how long WW live for etc.
  3. Do we actually know if the Night King is 1000's of years old......

We dont know how long they live for, we dont know why they cant reproduce.

 

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3 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

We know there was atleast one female WW who married the 13th Lord Commander of the Nights watch. Was this a marriage pact to as part of the peace treaty between the WW and realm?

You're blending the books with the show.  GRRM has confirmed that the Night King of the show, and the Night's King of the books are different people altogether.  On the show, the CotF created the Night King.  In the books, as you mentioned, he was a man, presumably a Stark per Old Nan. So the marriage you speak of happened in the books only.  The show has never indicated that there are female white walkers at all.

3 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Not all WW are Craster's sons. The Night King is thousands of years old and was one of the first men; he was captured by a CotF, who stuck a dragonglass dagger into his heart and turned him into a White Walker. Presumably there are many WWs left over from when the CotF started turning first men into WW during the war between the first men and the CotF.

I'm not sure we can presume that at all.  The show has not given us any indication that the NK has just been creating WW for thousands of years.  plus we never see more than a handful or more at a time, so if the NK was thousands of years old, and created at least 1 WW a year, where are the other thousands of WW?  The only WW creations the show has shown us is the NK turning a Craster baby into a WW.  That's it.  So that is what I was basing my opinion off of.  If you have any other show stuff that I am forgetting about let me know.  Maybe I missed something...

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It's kind of curious how little we know as fact about the Others; in the show even less than in the books (not that we know a lot from the books either).  
From a wider perspective, we can consider the Others/White Walkers as the representation of one of two primordial and opposite forces, like  in some ancient dualist religions or cosmologies. In the show universe, Melissandre states that there are only two "gods",  and that they are eternally at war: a god of light and love and joy, R'hllor, and a god of darkness, evil, and fear, the Great Other. And althought it is not clearly stated in the show as it is in the books (where Mel says that the Others are the "cold children" of the Great Other) the bond between the Others with this "God" or primordial force is evident.

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I can consider arguments for and against these theories.

Against:  There's no proof the Night's King's wife was a White Walker, only speculation based on her description.  It was discovered that the Night's King was making "sacrifices to the Others"...by mentioning the Others specifically, but not stating that the queen was an Other further complicates the speculative theories.  

For:  No one knows the full logistics of the process for making a White Walker, but if the queen was a WW then act of falling in love with a man may have caused a problem (uniting the north and the wildlings, exposure of their secrets, etc).  For that reason, perhaps no more females were turned by choice...since there are only men in the Night's Watch.  

No way to know, but that's my speculation.

 

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3 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

You're blending the books with the show.  GRRM has confirmed that the Night King of the show, and the Night's King of the books are different people altogether.  On the show, the CotF created the Night King.  In the books, as you mentioned, he was a man, presumably a Stark per Old Nan. So the marriage you speak of happened in the books only.  The show has never indicated that there are female white walkers at all.

I do apologise I thought it was mentioned in the show. 

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What do we know about the White Walkers :-

  • They were created by the Children of the Forest, to be used in war.
  • The Night King is one of the First Men.
  • The WW rebelled, probably due to probably been made slaves for war.
  • Night King can turn human babys into WWs (as seen by crasters boy)
  • Do they want revenge, to conquer, are they angry.. or they want something we do not know about.
  • Some WW have crowns of ice, do this suggest a Hierarchy of ruling?
  • Do they worship anything or anyone? (great other)
  • WW have super ''human'' strength as seen at hardhome.
  • WW bring the storm or atleast affect the weather indefintely
  • WW can freeze things i.e shatter sword with hand
  • WW can ''warg''/reanimate the dead.
  • The Night King is even more powerful - turn human babys into WW, raise hundreds from the dead, crack the ground, has the same abilites as bran (visions, become active in visions, affect visions etc).
  • The NK marked Bran nullifying the magic on the cave and possible the Wall? Mark = GPS signal type thing.
  •  They can be killed with Dragonglass or Valyrian steel.

I think the WW are not brainless creatures but they have a plan, a motive to what they are doing. It would be pretty underwhelming if they were just killing for the sake of it. Personally I think what they are doing has something to do with the CotF and possibly wants revenge against them.

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9 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I think the WW are not brainless creatures but they have a plan, a motive to what they are doing. It would be pretty underwhelming if they were just killing for the sake of it. Personally I think what they are doing has something to do with the CotF and possibly wants revenge against them.

If they just want revenge against the Children, they're pretty much done. They killed off the last remnants of the species last season. At a stretch, maybe they'd want to finish off Bran and Benjen because they carry Children magic, but there's no reason for them to kill Wildlings and attack the Wall and go after humanity in general. In fact, they should be happy with humanity, since humans killed off almost all of the Children over the last 8000 years, leaving them with just that handful in the cave to finish off. So, there must be more than that.

My guess from the books is that GRRM is heading toward a sort of Satanic twist on Zoroastrianism for their motivation. R'hllor/Ahura Mazda may be the Lord of Truth and the Source of Light, but when it comes down to it, the real reason to be on his side is that he's an uncompromising God who's guaranteed to win in the end, and if you don't fight for him you're counted as on the enemy side. That's already a reason to grumble a bit, but meanwhile, when he wins, that's the end of everything, and that's a reason to actually rebel. Fighting for Ahriman/The Great Other is hopeless, and maybe evil too, but it's also the only thing that delays the end. The Others are just trying to take as many millennia as possible to lose. Their mistake is that R'hllor and the Great Other aren't all-powerful like Ahura Mazda and Ahriman, they're only fighting over one small aspect of the world (the funky long seasons, or maybe magic more generally), so it's not really the end of the world they're preventing, just the world turning into our world. (If you're a Tolkien fan, what they've accomplished is stretching out the end of the Third Age for 8000 years too long.)

But, even if I'm right, I don't know what the show would do with that. I suppose simplify it and put it into more familiar terms. ( I'm pretty sure Star Wars is more familiar than a real-world religion that was a major historical force and is still practiced by millions, right? So they're mistakenly fighting for the Balance in the Force, and don't realize that all they're really doing is weakening the Force, because the Light Side is already balanced.)

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Here's a question. Crasters baby taken by the night king and touched so his eyes turn blue. Now that baby isn't dead is he; has no dragon glass in his chest? So he's under a spell, one that can be broken. If he's under a spell as he grows to manhood he would be able to communicate with actual men. He is in a hybrid state neither one thing or the other.

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2 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

Here's a question. Crasters baby taken by the night king and touched so his eyes turn blue. Now that baby isn't dead is he; has no dragon glass in his chest? So he's under a spell, one that can be broken. If he's under a spell as he grows to manhood he would be able to communicate with actual men. He is in a hybrid state neither one thing or the other.

yet no WW has ever said a word or made a grunt.

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On 8/16/2017 at 11:40 AM, Samwell_Tarly said:

Probably a topic thats been covered but none the less let the discussion commence.

Why have we not seen any female WW's?

What do they actually want?

Any other questions you have we can try answer etc. I have many theories about the white walkers which ill slow integrate into the discussion.

 

I would say their motivation (at least in the show) is directly linked to the desires and history if the NK. NK creates WW's, raises the dead... he is behind the whole army. So what does this single being want? Revenge? Ensure his creation? To destroy the only person that is becoming powerful enough to defeat him (Bran)? I just really hope it is interesting and satisfying like the Hodor reveal.

It will be such a long awaited let down if he is just out to kill everyone because the CotF made him that way. I doubt it though. Why would he wait until this moment in that case?

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15 hours ago, Illiterati said:

yet no WW has ever said a word or made a grunt.

Yes they have twice on the show.

Once when Sam stabs the WW  in the back and when Sam is caught up amongst the AotD. When we see the WW ''scream'' and raise his ice spear. Its like hes actually talking ''come on lets move forward'' 

In the books GRRM does confirm they speak and they speak a language called Skroth, which is like ice cracking.

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On 17/08/2017 at 1:22 PM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

No female White Walkers because they are Craster's sons.  I actually made a post about this a couple weeks ago.  My question then was why we don't see more of them.  I imagine Craster had to have had a bunch of sons based on the amount of daughters/wives he had.  We always see like 5-6 WW at a time.  I imagine Craster has had more than 5-6 boys in all the years he has been holed up at his keep. The other question I had was why we don't see WW kids.  If they are being turned as babies, why don't we see them as young WW.  Or even WW teens?  If their aging is accelerated, does that mean they have a short lifespan?  Seems weird that something could grow up so fast, only to be frozen in time as old WW.  it's all very weird and we are SO far into the show to have not been given much backstory on the WW...

I feel that's practically all it is, 5-6 WW at a time. I believe we've currently only seen three white walkers die (I haven't seen the leaked episode). Jon, Meera and Sam have each killed a White Walker each. Yet we do constantly see 5-6 despite this so I would say it is more or lews just them being kept in reserve.

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Posted (edited)

I had the very same question about Craster's babies, and what happens after they are turned into white walkers.  We certainly don't see any babies in their group.

I was about to argue that there are female white walkers...but then realized I was thinking of the wights... hmm...good question... I would like to see a scary female white walker. Karsi would have made a good one...

Edited by Rin68nyr

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On 8/19/2017 at 5:00 AM, Samwell_Tarly said:

Yes they have twice on the show.

Once when Sam stabs the WW  in the back and when Sam is caught up amongst the AotD. When we see the WW ''scream'' and raise his ice spear. Its like hes actually talking ''come on lets move forward'' 

In the books GRRM does confirm they speak and they speak a language called Skroth, which is like ice cracking.

Didn't we also hear the "scream" in Hardhome?

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