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US Politics: On Many Sides


Kalbear

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3 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

I would have thought there would be a lot of crossover between Trump supporters and Juggalos.

I think most Juggalos (at least the ones willing to go to a gathering) are pretty detached from the political process. Remember, almost 200 million Americans didn't vote last election (albeit, quite a few weren't eligible).

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12 hours ago, dmc515 said:

My first year in DC I went to a concert in which ICP were the headliners (at 9:30 Club for anyone familiar).  My friend wanted to see the opener - Kottonmouth Kings - while I wanted to see Bone Thugs which was the second act.  Anyway, we left as the Juggalos entered.  That's the most I ever want to see of them...

Kottonmouth Kings and Bone Thugs?  If it were possible to overdose on weed, this is how it would happen.

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50 minutes ago, Fez said:

It was incredibly damaging, as a lot of things about Trump are. But my point is, it wasn't action. It was a lot of really dumb words and failures to do things a President should do. But he didn't take any actions, and that's what will get him trouble.

The analogy I'm following is when the NFL suspends players over domestic violence. The league hates to do it, and almost never does. They only do it when they forced to by public opinion over an extremely visible action (e.g. the Ray Rice elevator video); they almost never do so without that (e.g. people know it happened but there's no evidence) and they never fine or censure players over things they say (except for criticizing the league office). The analogy isn't perfect, because with Trump any action will be extremely visible. But that's point, it will need to be something highly visible and tangible that'll get him.

I guess it's possible, but I remain skeptical. Trump has already taken a number of actions that would have ended any other politician's career. And yet he's still standing. Sure his polling numbers are in the tank, but that doesn't matter. It's still in the self serving political interest of most Republicans to stick with him, and I don't think that's going to change. They think they can still win reelection by siding with Trump. And they know they can't if they break with him.

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33 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I guess it's possible, but I remain skeptical. Trump has already taken a number of actions that would have ended any other politician's career. And yet he's still standing. Sure his polling numbers are in the tank, but that doesn't matter. It's still in the self serving political interest of most Republicans to stick with him, and I don't think that's going to change. They think they can still win reelection by siding with Trump. And they know they can't if they break with him.

I agree that it's unlikely, but the reason it's unlikely is because Trump is a cowardly, blowhard who rarely actually acts (look at much difficulty it takes him just to fire anyone). He mostly sits on the sidelines shit-slinging, which is bad for the country; but that falls under my definition of words, not action.

The most likely action he might take that would end things is if he starts vetoing key legislation that leadership manages to pass; that might break things (though obviously wouldn't be the public reasoning).

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1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

It's tweeting again

http://abc7.com/politics/trump-tweets-support-for-preserving-confederate-statues/2317588/

He has also gone after Lindsey Graham for accusing him of drawing a moral equivalency between Nazis and Not Nazis.

It's almost like he thinks it's smart politics to side with the white supremacists......

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1 hour ago, S John said:

Kottonmouth Kings and Bone Thugs?  If it were possible to overdose on weed, this is how it would happen.

Oh man. I miss the Kottonmouth Kings. I used to listen to them all the time in high school.

In other news, new story popped today about Bannon's house in Florida, the one where acid destroyed the master tub.

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Curtis heard the same stories of porn, drugs, and debauchery over and over again.

“Each person gave accounts that the house was used to film pornography, had a constant flow of men, women — and even children — at the house and that blatant drug use was occurring at all hours of the night and day,” Curtis said.

At least five people told him tales of drug use and porn at the house.

Felix, a handyman who frequently worked on the property, told Curtis he had personally “witnessed women and men being filmed in the act.” He described the buckets of chemicals and bags of trash and rags he had to remove. He spent hours scrubbing the master bathtub, “which appeared melted by some form of acid.” Felix suspected the bathtub had been used for “making drugs.”

Curtis heard similar stories from the pest control service man.

“In fact,” Curtis said, “he did so in an almost gleeful and boastful manner.”

The pest control worker described witnessing drug use each time he came to the house, “even at early day hours.” He told Curtis it would blow his mind to know what “what went on in the house.”

An unnamed male tenant, he said, who was “a heavy set man,” offered him “girls for sex and/or drugs in lieu of payment,” but he never accepted because he could lose his job.

 

Quote

Shortly after Curtis moved into the house, he started to experience a variety of symptoms: fatigue, inability to sleep, eye and skin irritation, chronic chest pain, and dizziness.

The symptoms would subside when he was away from the house for weeks at a time and they would resume when he returned.

In March, Herrera finally admitted to Curtis that the prior tenants had manufactured meth there. That’s when Curtis went to stay in a hotel. Again, his symptoms subsided.

He also purchased kits to test for methamphetamine in the house. At first, he focused on the kitchen, master bathroom, and guest room. The tests showed a high level of contamination, so Curtis ordered six more tests and had them shipped overnight.

The contamination was through the roof. So Curtis hired a company to test the house at well. The test confirmed “levels of meth and very high levels of cocaine.”

 

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40 minutes ago, Fez said:

I agree that it's unlikely, but the reason it's unlikely is because Trump is a cowardly, blowhard who rarely actually acts (look at much difficulty it takes him just to fire anyone). He mostly sits on the sidelines shit-slinging, which is bad for the country; but that falls under my definition of words, not action.

Agreed.

40 minutes ago, Fez said:

The most likely action he might take that would end things is if he starts vetoing key legislation that leadership manages to pass; that might break things (though obviously wouldn't be the public reasoning).

That seems unlikely. He loves his signing ceremonies, and because he's not ideological, he'll sign anything they put in front of him so long as it doesn't affect him or his Presidential power.

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2 hours ago, Morpheus said:

It's tweeting again

http://abc7.com/politics/trump-tweets-support-for-preserving-confederate-statues/2317588/

He has also gone after Lindsey Graham for accusing him of drawing a moral equivalency between Nazis and Not Nazis.

Well, of course he goes after Graham. He is imho pretty much the lone Republican in the senate, who will walk away from this presidency with small shred of decency and dignity left. Of course Graham has been for most parts all talk, but at least his talk was consistent.

Way more entertaining and on the point was Ana Navarro going nuclear on CNN a few nights ago, when she called out her party's leadership over their Faustian Bargain, and said that talking to Trump apologists was a waste of time.

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 The more first hand accounts I read about this event, the more I'm amazed it didn't turn into an absolute bloodbath. This article describes a group of armed leftists The Redneck Revolt who were walking around with assault rifles. 

 http://www.alternet.org/right-wing/i-was-charlottesville-when-nazis-moved-theyre-coming-you-next?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

How this didn't turn into an all out gun battle is beyond me.

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Is anyone else getting too run down having to listen to the excuse making for people who support 45, particularly now, when they're attempting to relitigate the essential causes of the Civil War?  

It's one thing coming from the hardcore 45ers who've now firmly exposed themselves for who they are, but those who you might have held out hope for as reasonable people just not getting it?  Had a long time friend lament on students being taught that the Civil War wasn't about freeing the slaves, that Lincoln simply wanted to preserve the Union.  That the teachers teaching it are also uniformed.  Trying to explain that there's just too many layers of that, and all layers actually find themselves rooted back into the issue of Slavery...it's exhausting, even when you give credible evidence and some 45er, who you try to ignore because it's simply pointless talking to them, let alone arguing, jumps in to your discussion.

You're not supposed to be losing sleep over this are you?  Ugh.

 

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 The more first hand accounts I read about this event, the more I'm amazed it didn't turn into an absolute bloodbath. This article describes a group of armed leftists The Redneck Revolt who were walking around with assault rifles. 

 http://www.alternet.org/right-wing/i-was-charlottesville-when-nazis-moved-theyre-coming-you-next?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

How this didn't turn into an all out gun battle is beyond me.

Because the intimidation of being so heavily armed worked.  The cops were afraid of them.

But just barely did it not happen.  The itchy fingers standing at the synagogue -- just terrifying.

Ultimately one thinks that the confederate nazis were still sane enough to realize if they really did start shooting it would go all over the world and they'd lose the pr war that they were hoping this would be, i.e. capturing hearts and minds of we 'norms.'

So for the nonce they managed to feast adequately upon their strutting armed cosplay. They LOVE rolling around, doing their swag, strut and fondle of their guns in public where all eyes are forced to look at it, like the guys who masturbate on the subways where little girls are forced to see “it."  So maybe that was enough at the synagogue, for instance, to keep them from opening fire. And VA has legal open carry, unlike MA and Boston (which demo for Saturday, isn't supposed to be the same people as in Charlottesville, They All Say), so the authorities in Charlottesville didn't need to challenge them. But the shooting will come unless this stuff gets shut down really fast.

 

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2 minutes ago, Zorral said:

But the shooting will come unless this stuff gets shut down really fast.

Yeah, it's a minor miracle that this didn't happen on Saturday. Think if Car Murder Guy had a gun and decided to pop off in that area the writer of that piece I posted is describing. That would've set off a firestorm.

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, it's a minor miracle that this didn't happen on Saturday. Think if Car Murder Guy had a gun and decided to pop off in that area the writer of that piece I posted is describing. That would've set off a firestorm.

Murdering with his car also set off a fire storm world-wide, fanned by the orangilla's a$$holery.

One rather feels that Car Murder Fields couldn't afford the guns and outfits that so many publicly masturbated with in Charlottesville -- they are expensive!  And this, with all the pumped adrenaline sent him ramming into the people -- no doubt howling Yeeee Haw!.  Until he saw what he had really done and then shyte himself.

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24 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, it's a minor miracle that this didn't happen on Saturday. Think if Car Murder Guy had a gun and decided to pop off in that area the writer of that piece I posted is describing. That would've set off a firestorm.

Sadly I don't think what happened on Saturday will be a one off event. There will be several more pro and counter Nazi protests, and I think it's all but inevitable that violence will break out again. That said, what scared me even more than the violence from Charlottesville was that the white supremacists weren't afraid to show their faces. I suspect they aren't going away any time soon.

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7 hours ago, Inigima said:

I'm a little late getting to this due to real life stuff. This is fun to laugh about and all but juggalos are legit extremely anti-racist and and anti-fascist. It is not a new thing, it is not an act.

I read a solid book a year or two ago, Nathan Rabin's You Don't Know Me But You Don't Like Me*, that includes a deep dive into juggalo culture. (The other half is about Phish fan culture, which is not nearly as interesting.) Really changed the way I think about juggalos, I recommend it.

* Nathan Rabin is a former head writer for the Onion A.V. Club.

Oh, I know. That's why I think they'll come to blows. The clowns have been woke for a very, very long time and have been pretty outspoken, even if their fans are pretty much as white as they come. 

3 hours ago, Morpheus said:

I would have thought there would be a lot of crossover between Trump supporters and Juggalos.

There probably is to some degree - but also possibly less than you think. ICP fans have been absurdly and weirdly targeted by the government as being a gang and have been harassed by the FBI. ICP themselves is famously Christian, but are also famously anti-racist and very, very against things like the confederate flag (in one song they mention taking a shit on it) and the like. They are not easily shoehorned.

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