DMC Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 My first year in DC I went to a concert in which ICP were the headliners (at 9:30 Club for anyone familiar). My friend wanted to see the opener - Kottonmouth Kings - while I wanted to see Bone Thugs which was the second act. Anyway, we left as the Juggalos entered. That's the most I ever want to see of them... 1 hour ago, Swordfish said: You say that like it's a bad thing........ Indeed. To quote a great Hispanic actress on a horrible sitcom: "Two birds, one bullet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 So, Trump delayed his statement to get all the facts, then says the anti-WS&N protesters didn't have a permit when they did. I suppose he should have delayed a few more days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 The Myth of the Alt-Left: Quote After Clinton dragged the alt-right into the world’s headlines, use of “alt-left” exploded. Conservatives started using it too, as a reflexive insult lobbed at the Democrats in general, but for the most part it kept its original meaning. For the soon-to-be-doomed Clintonites, it was an incredibly useful term. If Clinton were simply to the right of Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump to the right of her, then her project could be seen by some on the left as one that meant drifting toward Trumpism, an unacceptable compromise with evil. [...] This red-baiting sense of the term “alt-left” continued to be used right up until the murders in Charlottesville. (This landmark Vanity Fair article on the subject, published in March this year, gives you a flavor of the general tone of the discussion; there have been endless similar essays, but really they’re all the same.) Even as the Nazis and the Klan assembled in Virginia, some liberals were continuing to insist that the murderous far-right and the socialist left were essentially the same, or at the very least balanced each other out. [...] Now that Trump has added “alt-left” to his armory of insults, many of these same centrist constituencies are appalled that anyone could ever draw a moral equivalence between fascists and those opposing them. But this is exactly what they did, and what they’ve been doing for over a year. There’s a pattern here. Immediately after the 2016 election, liberals pioneered the notion of “fake news”—made up or poorly sourced, inaccurate and hyperpartisan media, generated for furious clicks, misleading wide sectors of the population. It didn’t take long for the right to reclaim the term, hurling it back at the mainstream press. [...] The term was meant to imply that the socialist left and the most despicable creatures of the right are on the same moral plane. But it’s possible to make any number of connections: If liberals and fascists are both terrified by the notion of an active, unashamed leftist movement, and if they express that terror with the same nonsense phrase, what else might they have in common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, dmc515 said: The Myth of the Alt-Left: Murders? (plural) In Charlottesville. I keep seeing similar language to this in MSM articles. Not as bad as that though. I hope that one is a typo. /On top of that, I haven't heard the term "alt-left" used until Trump said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Murders? (plural) In Charlottesville. Yeah don't know about that - seems more hyperbole than typo but no reason to get in a huff about it. I don't know much about the author either. I should explain why I bothered to post all that. I wanted to just say as a reason, "I'm a puzzle," but alas, I'm not as cool as Jed Bartlet. I posted it for three intertwined reasons: One, as a political scientist I spend exponentially more time reviewing others' arguments than formulating my own. While these are obviously much more empirically based, this was a very well-structured argument, as op-eds go. Two, I believe in open dialogue. I suspect this argument resonates with many posters here that have been angered and/or felt that their voice was being ignored or misunderstood. This is a very strong articulation of what I think their main gripes are. Most importantly, I believe in reconciliation, and not in the congressional meaning. I'm a very old 32 - sometimes people mention shit that's going on online and I'm like WTF? But I agree with everything quoted above - and I know "alt-left" didn't start with Trump. My issue the past almost-week has been with advocating unprovoked violence and putting those that advocate free speech next to nazis. Insofar as the rest of it, I think the left has a case against "centrists" or the "establishment" as mentioned above. And I think it's very important that anyone from 1 through 4 (or perhaps even 5) on the ideological scale unite at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Murders? (plural) In Charlottesville. I keep seeing similar language to this in MSM articles. Not as bad as that though. I hope that one is a typo. I've also seen articles titled "3 killed in Charlottesville". They're counting the two officers that were killed in the helicopter crash without distinguishing them from the actual murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said: I've also seen articles titled "3 killed in Charlottesville". They're counting the two officers that were killed in the helicopter crash without distinguishing them from the actual murder. Yep, 3 killed is accurate. Anymore than one described as murder is not, is I think ME's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I am trying to keep up with all the news (I'm still in Europe after Worldcon) but there's been so much... It wasn't that long ago since we were saying 'don't use the term Nazi' when discussing the Trump administration, was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I'm reading these posts and I cant stop thinking how incredulous was it that ICP got headliner billing and Bone Thugs (Grammy winners) were relegated to second of 3 acts? Thats just upside down world! There were clearly some strange forces at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Boston really fucked up giving those nazis and white supremacists that permit. I can see it becoming such a shit show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Kalbear said: Also, remember when the great threat to America was that there would be taco truck at every corner? A taco truck on every corner sounds wonderful, I'm tired of desk food for lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Kalbear said: Yes, we live in a timeline where there's a very real chance that a Juggalo rally will come to violence with a pro-Trump rally scheduled at the same time. https://twitter.com/meakoopa/status/897956122295803904 I'm a little late getting to this due to real life stuff. This is fun to laugh about and all but juggalos are legit extremely anti-racist and and anti-fascist. It is not a new thing, it is not an act. I read a solid book a year or two ago, Nathan Rabin's You Don't Know Me But You Don't Like Me*, that includes a deep dive into juggalo culture. (The other half is about Phish fan culture, which is not nearly as interesting.) Really changed the way I think about juggalos, I recommend it. * Nathan Rabin is a former head writer for the Onion A.V. Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Yes, Steve Bannon is a flamin’ idiot.http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/08/bannon-fighting-racism-is-for-losers/ Quote But he also had something to say about the news of the day. What do you think about combating racism and white supremacy, Steve? “The Democrats,” he said, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.” Now, I’d like some alt-righties or conservative sorts of people to sit me down and explain to me, like kindagarten style, how the right doesn’t do “identity politics”. Because I think it does. And it’s very, very good at it. And what is the “economic nationalism” that he speaks of? It seems that the Trump administration is just mainly pursuing the same old, same old supply side clichés we’ve known for years. ....................................... Worth downloading and saving: https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/33759251/2017-08_electionReport.pdf Quote Donald Trump succeeded in shaping the election agenda. Coverage of Trump overwhelmingly outperformed coverage of Clinton. Clinton’s coverage was focused on scandals, while Trump’s coverage focused on his core issues. Quote The structure of the overall media landscape shows media systems on the left and right operate differently. The asymmetric polarization of media is evident in both open web linking and social media sharing measures.Prominent media on the left are well distributed across the center, center-left, and left. On the right, prominent media are highly partisan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's almost like he wants to get fired: http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-trump-s-far-right-chief-strategist-1502968996-htmlstory.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 15 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: I'm not as confident as you are Fez. If feels like at this point Trump has done so many seemingly unforgivable things and gotten away with it that nothing will sink him other then him being so toxic that no Republican can support him, and I don't think the Russia issue will do that. There's already been so much goal post moving on the issue, and at this point, if it came out that he actively colluded with Putin his supporters and many Republicans will just say, "He did what he had to do to protect us from Hillary," or something to that effect. I've been thinking about it all day, and the one thing I think he could do to have Republicans truly turn on him is to do something so deeply offensive and unforgivable towards Christians, but I'm not sure exactly what that would be. And to your last point, hasn't he already done both of those already? He's been in violation of the Constitution since the moment he took his oath of office and almost everything he's done has been incredibly damaging to the country, both at home and abroad. I mean literally just last week we were wondering if he might preemptively nuke North Korea. It was incredibly damaging, as a lot of things about Trump are. But my point is, it wasn't action. It was a lot of really dumb words and failures to do things a President should do. But he didn't take any actions, and that's what will get him trouble. The analogy I'm following is when the NFL suspends players over domestic violence. The league hates to do it, and almost never does. They only do it when they forced to by public opinion over an extremely visible action (e.g. the Ray Rice elevator video); they almost never do so without that (e.g. people know it happened but there's no evidence) and they never fine or censure players over things they say (except for criticizing the league office). The analogy isn't perfect, because with Trump any action will be extremely visible. But that's point, it will need to be something highly visible and tangible that'll get him. If Trump marched in a neo-Nazi rally, I think he'd be impeached; but he'll never impeached over what he says about neo-Nazi rally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's tweeting again http://abc7.com/politics/trump-tweets-support-for-preserving-confederate-statues/2317588/ He has also gone after Lindsey Graham for accusing him of drawing a moral equivalency between Nazis and Not Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said: I've also seen articles titled "3 killed in Charlottesville". They're counting the two officers that were killed in the helicopter crash without distinguishing them from the actual murder. Yeah, that's the one I'n seeing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 9 hours ago, dmc515 said: Yep, 3 killed is accurate. Anymore than one described as murder is not, is I think ME's point. Even "3 killed" is hyperbolic though. It's 3 dead, if you want to be accurate. 3 killed would suggest the helicopter was shot down or otherwise sabotaged or something. /Edited to add, I suppose 1 murdered, 2 others Dead would be the more accurate headline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 September 16 is gonna be a hell of a day in DC. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pro-trump-rally-to-commence-on-same-day-as-juggalos-march-in-dc/ Quote A pro-Trump rally dubbed the "Mother of All Rallies" (MOAR) is set to take place in Washington, D.C. the very same day as a march on the mall is being held by the Juggalos, the fanbase of the rap-rock group Insane Clown Posse, in protest of the FBI's classification of Juggalos as a "loosely organized hybrid gang." Both demonstrations are set to take place on September 16th and both eye the National Mall as the backdrop for their protests. On Twitter at least, some of the Juggalos seem like they're angling for a fight. But I doubt anything will happen beyond maybe a few people getting sprayed with Faygo who weren't expecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I would have thought there would be a lot of crossover between Trump supporters and Juggalos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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