iprayiam

Why is it assumed that the White Walkers will make it past the Wall?

52 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

If it's made of ice wouldn't a dragon be able to burn it down?

Sure a dragon could use his fire to melt ice.  But the wall is supposed to be made of ice, aggregate, and Bran the Builder's special sauce.

So no one can know right now if dragon fire can bring down a magically built wall of ice.

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1 minute ago, Col Cinders said:

Sure a dragon could use his fire to melt ice.  But the wall is supposed to be made of ice, aggregate, and Bran the Builder's special sauce.

So no one can know right now if dragon fire can bring down a magically built wall of ice.

Dragon fire is supposed to have its own magical properties though correct?

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2 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Dragon fire is supposed to have its own magical properties though correct?

Indeed.  But now we're into the area of Superman vs Capt. Marvel and who's the strongest.

But outside of the discussion of dragons is the horn that is supposed to dispel magic and therefore break the wall.  I don't remember it mentioned in the show.  In the books, I suspect it is the horn that Sam has.

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Oh and I want to add that there is nothing but rough terrain on the west of the wall keeping the WW out of the realm of men and a sea to the east.

So the WW can go around the wall too.

Unless there is a terrible sea monster that would eat them on the sea.  Several times people have jokingly poked at the cracken (sp?)

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4 minutes ago, Col Cinders said:

Oh and I want to add that there is nothing but rough terrain on the west of the wall keeping the WW out of the realm of men and a sea to the east.

So the WW can go around the wall too.

Unless there is a terrible sea monster that would eat them on the sea.  Several times people have jokingly poked at the cracken (sp?)

If you watch the opening credits where it shows all the places with the gears and stuff the sea by Eastwatch is actually frozen and in episodes before this season it is not.  So couldn't they technically just walk around?

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6 hours ago, Illiterati said:

Seems like the possibility exists in ancient lore, which the people of Westeros have dismissed as myth ("Grumpkins and Snarks").  The Night's Watch has seen them, and once you see that NK, WW and wights exist, it lends credence to the idea that the rest of the myth, that the NK will bring battle to Westeros.  Again, I don't think the showrunners have done a good job of conveying the mythological history of the story.  

That Ancient Lore is from before the Wall, isn't it? There haven't been any White Walkers known to be south of the Wall since its construction, have there?

I get preparing for the possibility that the Night King will attack the South. But the OP is correct, Jon speaks as if a White Walker invasion is a foregone conclusion. Has he been reading next season's scripts? 

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Just now, darmody said:

That Ancient Lore is from before the Wall, isn't it? There haven't been any White Walkers known to be south of the Wall since its construction, have there?

I get preparing for the possibility that the Night King will attack the South. But the OP is correct, Jon speaks as if a White Walker invasion is a foregone conclusion. Has he been reading next season's scripts? 

He may be WRITING next season's scripts.

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42 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

If it's made of ice wouldn't a dragon be able to burn it down?

By that logic it could be brought down by an icepick. But that would require a long time or like a billion men. 

Dragon fire could do it quicker, but how quickly, really? And why would the White Walkers have dragon fire? 

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2 minutes ago, darmody said:

By that logic it could be brought down by an icepick. But that would require a long time or like a billion men. 

Dragon fire could do it quicker, but how quickly, really? And why would the White Walkers have dragon fire? 

Spoiler alert

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Jon thought the Wildlings would pass the wall just because they had the greater numbers. The army of the dead has even larger numbers. I don't think he trusts the magic within the wal to stop the White Walkers.... 

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17 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

If it's made of ice wouldn't a dragon be able to burn it down?

Dany lives and wants to rule the 7 kingdoms south of the wall, why would she burn the wall down to let the WW through?

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56 minutes ago, Eddard Scissorhands said:

Dany lives and wants to rule the 7 kingdoms south of the wall, why would she burn the wall down to let the WW through?

Oh I don't think it is Dany they're talking about.  Euron Greyjoy has the dragon binder horn from old Valeria.  If he takes control of one of Dany's dragons then letting the WW loose would be one dick move he could make agains Jon/Dany in support of Cersei.

Wow I have made more posts about horns than I ever thought I would.

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6 hours ago, Col Cinders said:

Oh I don't think it is Dany they're talking about.  Euron Greyjoy has the dragon binder horn from old Valeria.  If he takes control of one of Dany's dragons then letting the WW loose would be one dick move he could make agains Jon/Dany in support of Cersei.

Wow I have made more posts about horns than I ever thought I would.

That could be interesting!

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On 8/18/2017 at 3:59 PM, Col Cinders said:

Oh and I want to add that there is nothing but rough terrain on the west of the wall keeping the WW out of the realm of men and a sea to the east.

So the WW can go around the wall too.

Unless there is a terrible sea monster that would eat them on the sea.  Several times people have jokingly poked at the cracken (sp?)

I doubt a single kraken could stop the entire army of the dead. Yes, it's big enough to pull down a whaling ship with a single tentacle, but it'll still go down the same as a giant or a mammoth, you just need maybe a thousand wights instead of a hundred to swarm it, which shouldn't be too much problem.

And then you can wight it and ride around the Wall on its back and look cooler than all the other White Walkers riding horses carefully across the thin ice.

In the books, there are legends of sea dragons so big that they eat krakens for breakfast. That might be big enough to stop a whole army.

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On 8/18/2017 at 4:26 PM, Illiterati said:

Spoiler alert

I haven't read the spoilers, but I assume they just confirm what's been obvious for a long time: the three dragons are going end up with Dany (Drogon), Jon (Rhaego, named for his dad), and the Night King (Viserion, named for Dany's stupid and evil brother, so what did she expect).

Viserion's death will probably happen this weekend if Dany has to rescue her Seven Stupid Samurai, or maybe later with Dany scouting the army of the dead, or maybe even later in the first battle for Eastwatch. But it'll be shortly after Dany refuses to consider finding other dragonriders (which Tyrion will suggest next time he sees Drogon and Jon getting friendly), and the first time she takes all three dragons with her anywhere. Probably the Night King shoots an arrow through Viserion's eye, but maybe it's part of Cersei's evil plan to join the armistice and have Bronn scorpioning the dead mammoths and the like but also take out Dany's dragons when she's not watching. We'll see the NK raise all the dead from the battle, just like in Hardhome, then pause for dramatic effect in case there's a TV camera on him, then raise the dragon. The episode will end with either Viserion opening a now-blue eye, or the NK mounting him and taking to the sky. Also, the initial human reaction will be about Dany's sadness about losing one of her kids, not about holy shit we just gave the enemy a dragon. (Unless it's the Cersei thing—then Bronn and Jaime will get that right off the bat.)

Don't tell me if I'm right. (But if I'm wrong, once the relevant episode has aired, please do come back and laugh at me, of course.)

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15 minutes ago, falcotron said:

I haven't read the spoilers, but I assume they just confirm what's been obvious for a long time: the three dragons are going end up with Dany (Drogon), Jon (Rhaego, named for his dad), and the Night King (Viserion, named for Dany's stupid and evil brother, so what did she expect).

Viserion's death will probably happen this weekend if Dany has to rescue her Seven Stupid Samurai, or maybe later with Dany scouting the army of the dead, or maybe even later in the first battle for Eastwatch. But it'll be shortly after Dany refuses to consider finding other dragonriders (which Tyrion will suggest next time he sees Drogon and Jon getting friendly), and the first time she takes all three dragons with her anywhere. Probably the Night King shoots an arrow through Viserion's eye, but maybe it's part of Cersei's evil plan to join the armistice and have Bronn scorpioning the dead mammoths and the like but also take out Dany's dragons when she's not watching. We'll see the NK raise all the dead from the battle, just like in Hardhome, then pause for dramatic effect in case there's a TV camera on him, then raise the dragon. The episode will end with either Viserion opening a now-blue eye, or the NK mounting him and taking to the sky. Also, the initial human reaction will be about Dany's sadness about losing one of her kids, not about holy shit we just gave the enemy a dragon. (Unless it's the Cersei thing—then Bronn and Jaime will get that right off the bat.)

Don't tell me if I'm right. (But if I'm wrong, once the relevant episode has aired, please do come back and laugh at me, of course.)

And you haven't seen the leaked episode 6 yet?

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3 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

And you haven't seen the leaked episode 6 yet?

Well, from that question, it's pretty obviously going to be the episode 6 possibility, isn't it…

That was the one that seemed least likely of the three, for three reasons:

  • We still need time for the scene where Tyrion suggests Dany find two more dragon riders and she refuses. (Without that, Dany isn't losing her dragon because she didn't listen, which I'm about 90% sure is going to be a plot point—especially after Dany chewing Tyrion out for being wrong repeatedly.) I guess it could happen in the same episode, but there can't be another Jon-and-the-dragons scene before that. Which I guess is ok.
  • There's only going to be a few dead from their party, which means the NK raising the dead, then doing a dramatic pause, then raising the dragon will be a lot less dramatic. Maybe they'll find some way to make raising the dragon even more dramatic, like he falls into the ocean or a deep river instead of onto the ground or something? Seems a bit repetitive after Jaime's underwater episode ending. Hopefully I'll be surprised.
  • I'm not sure how Jon could get a message out from atop a mountain peak or wherever he manages to get his dumb self surrounded. I mean without communicating with Ghost, which could be cool, but sadly they're not going to even consider that. My worry is that it's just going to be that Dany decides to go look for them because they've been gone so long, as if the entire mission from Dragonstone to capturing the wight should have only taken a couple hours. Again, hopefully I'll be surprised.

But anyway, I guess now I know the final scene of episode 6. It probably won't be the NK mounting Viserion and taking to the skies if all the humans are up there on dragonback at the same time, so it'll be a closeup on Viserion opening his eye and it's blue.

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On 18/08/2017 at 0:14 AM, iprayiam said:

I can't remember this being spelled out in the show, although maybe it has been. But why does Jon assume that the White Walkers *will* make it past the wall? He is preparing for a war on Westerosi soil, but shouldn't he at this time mostly be interested in manning the wall?

At this point, it just seems like a given to Jon that the Walkers will make it through, and I'm trying to remember if there's justification for that, if I'm misreading it altogether, or if Jon Snow has just been reading ahead in the script.

I've thought that too in "plot hole" terms, i.e. there have been many winters in the time since the wall was built and if the WWs could get around it at Eastwatch all along, why have they waited till now?  There definitely seems to be something off about the way Jon assumes they will make it past the wall.

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