Why did the Spicers ally with the Lannisters if their grandmother Maggy the Frog knew about the downfall of Queen Cersei and all of her children?

[Lollygag]

Sybell Spicer Westerling and Rolph Spicer are the grandchildren of Maggy. One would think that Maggy would have told her family to stay away from Cersei and her children. So did she and they didn’t listen? Or did they know and Sybell’s scheming was more complicated than we’re led to believe? Or something else?

 

Also, I wonder about this curse:

Quote

There was a jar of some thick potion by her elbow, sitting on a table. She snatched it up and threw it into the old woman's eyes. In life the crone had screamed at them in some queer foreign tongue, and cursed them as they fled her tent. But in the dream her face dissolved, melting away into ribbons of grey mist until all that remained were two squinting yellow eyes, the eyes of death.

 

[The Sleeper]

For one thing, Maggy knowing that Cersei would come to a bad end, does not mean she knows the hows or whys of it, let alone that her grandchildren would be periphaly involved. If so why would she tell them about the heiress of Casterly Rock bothering her in the middle of the night.

That said it is more or less implied that they engineered Jeyne's wedding to Robb. I would very much like to know, how they pulled that off. For one it indicates precognition. The concoction that Sybelle brewed her daughter also suggests that her grandmother taught her a thing or two.

[Buried Treasure]

It's Westeros, a horrific number of people come to bad ends. If Maggy had told her granddaughter to avoid everyone who had a foreboding prophecy she wouldn't be able to leave her chambers.

 

[desire]

Oh great magic 8 ball give me the answer my future generation can follow  

[Lollygag]

1 minute ago, The Sleeper said:

For one thing, Maggy knowing that Cersei would come to a bad end, does not mean she knows the hows or whys of it, let alone that her grandchildren would be periphaly involved. If so why would she tell them about the heiress of Casterly Rock bothering her in the middle of the night.

Just me, but if I knew something potentially that disastrous, I'd make sure to tell everyone in the family to stay well away from her and her kids. From what Maggy says, she knows enough to be sure it won't be good for anyone with ties to Cersei or her kids.

Quote

"Aye." Malice gleamed in Maggy's yellow eyes. "Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

Anger flashed across the child's face. "If she tries I will have my brother kill her." Even then she would not stop, willful child as she was. She still had one more question due her, one more glimpse into her life to come. "Will the king and I have children?" she asked.

"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."

That made no sense to Cersei. Her thumb was throbbing where she'd cut it, and her blood was dripping on the carpet. How could that be? she wanted to ask, but she was done with her questions.

The old woman was not done with her, however. "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

 

13 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

That said it is more or less implied that they engineered Jeyne's wedding to Robb. I would very much like to know, how they pulled that off. For one it indicates precognition. The concoction that Sybelle brewed her daughter also suggests that her grandmother taught her a thing or two.

I did find the quote below, but I'm inclined to agree that the Spicers approached Tywin with the idea. The plan just doesn't feel very Tywin-esque to me.

Quote

ASOS Tyrion III

Having once married a whore, Tyrion could not entirely share his uncle's horror at the thought of wedding a girl whose great grandfather sold cloves. Even so . . . A sweet child, Ser Kevan had said, but many a poison was sweet as well. The Westerlings were old blood, but they had more pride than power. It would not surprise him to learn that Lady Sybell had brought more wealth to the marriage than her highborn husband. The Westerling mines had failed years ago, their best lands had been sold off or lost, and the Crag was more ruin than stronghold. A romantic ruin, though, jutting up so brave above the sea. "I am surprised," Tyrion had to confess. "I thought Robb Stark had better sense."

"He is a boy of sixteen," said Lord Tywin. "At that age, sense weighs for little, against lust and love and honor."

"He forswore himself, shamed an ally, betrayed a solemn promise. Where is the honor in that?"

Ser Kevan answered. "He chose the girl's honor over his own. Once he had deflowered her, he had no other course."

 

 

[Lollygag]

8 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said:

It's Westeros, a horrific number of people come to bad ends. If Maggy had told her granddaughter to avoid everyone who had a foreboding prophecy she wouldn't be able to leave her chambers.

 

The Queen and all of her heirs aren't just anyone.

[The Sleeper]

37 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Just me, but if I knew something potentially that disastrous, I'd make sure to tell everyone in the family to stay well away from her and her kids. From what Maggy says, she knows enough to be sure it won't be good for anyone with ties to Cersei or her kids.

Again, no specifics. There is no reason to assume that the Spicers would be involved with the Lannisters. They are pretty low down the food chain. Nothing to do with them.

As for King's and heirs coming to bad end, well that is about fifty-fifty odds. Also they made a deal with Tywin, not Cersei. Cersei does not appear to be aware who they are.

37 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

I did find the quote below, but I'm inclined to agree that the Spicers approached Tywin with the idea. The plan just doesn't feel very Tywin-esque to me.

It is not a matter of Tywin-esque or not. It's practically impossible to arrange, considering the time lag of the ravens. He would have to know in advance that Robb was going to attack the Crag, that he would get injured and that he would receive the news. Bran's and Rickon's deaths.

And where did he get such thorough knowledge of Robb's character, considering his previous assessment prior to the battle of the Green Fork.

Now, that I am writing this, it occured to me, that Tywin was seen by Arya talking to his northern captives. Robb's attack on the Crag could have been deduced from his position. Then send a raven telling Sybell to throw her daughter at Robb, in order to drive a wedge between Robb and the Freys. And the rest being happy coincidence.

ETA yup, that would be Wylis Manderley and three maesters, that Tywin was seen with.

[LindsayLohan]

Easy answer:  Every family has that crazy old coot (uncle or grand-something) that talks nonsense, who is ignored by most of the family.  You only see them on special occasions and when you drop off some groceries during bad weather. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Sybell Spicer Westerling and Rolph Spicer are the grandchildren of Maggy. One would think that Maggy would have told her family to stay away from Cersei and her children. So did she and they didn’t listen? Or did they know and Sybell’s scheming was more complicated than we’re led to believe? Or something else?

 

Also, I wonder about this curse:

 

Can you image the theories we'd have if those two eyes had been blue? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

For one thing, Maggy knowing that Cersei would come to a bad end, does not mean she knows the hows or whys of it, let alone that her grandchildren would be periphaly involved. If so why would she tell them about the heiress of Casterly Rock bothering her in the middle of the night.

That said it is more or less implied that they engineered Jeyne's wedding to Robb. I would very much like to know, how they pulled that off. For one it indicates precognition. The concoction that Sybelle brewed her daughter also suggests that her grandmother taught her a thing or two.

I believe there is an SSM where the George suggests that it was done in cahoots with Tywin. That bugs me since it suggests that Tywin was able to communicate with occupied Crag. I think it's much more feasible that Mommy Westerling acted because she feared Tywin, and then her husband negotiated with Tywin through Forely Prester after Robb released him. But if the author says Tywin and Sybelle plotted to put the girl in Robb's bed, then Tywin and Sybelle plotted to put the girl in Robb's bed. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, LindsayLohan said:

Easy answer:  Every family has that crazy old coot (uncle or grand-something) that talks nonsense, who is ignored by most of the family.  You only see them on special occasions and when you drop off some groceries during bad weather. 

This. 

[norwaywolf123]

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Sybell Spicer Westerling and Rolph Spicer are the grandchildren of Maggy. One would think that Maggy would have told her family to stay away from Cersei and her children. So did she and they didn’t listen? Or did they know and Sybell’s scheming was more complicated than we’re led to believe? Or something else?

 

Also, I wonder about this curse:

 

My crackpot is that jeyne westerling will marry jaime lannister!

Anyone find the thought intresting? Tell me what you think are good ideas and what is not.

- Maggys prophecy (Red=Cersei,Green=maggy)

When will I wed the prince?" she asked. 
"Never. You will wed the king."

... "I will be queen, though?" asked the younger her. 
"Aye." Malice gleamed in Maggys yellow eyes. "Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

I suspect that Jeyne Westerling will be the younger more beutiful to cast her down and take what she holds dear(Only Jaime if her children are dead). Jeyne used to be queen of the north thur her marriage to Robb Stark.

- Jeyne westerling foreshadowed by johanna westerling nee LANNISTER. 

Maybe Jeyne Westerling will be a paralell charcter foreshadowed by http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Johanna_Lannister, who was a westerling married to http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jason_Lannister. Jaimes mother was also named to Johanna maybe it is a hint? Assuming Jaime meets the same end as Jason and jeyne has a lion, then the spierces will be in control of casterly rock thru the use of their wit similarlily to lann the clever. Jason also had brother named Tyland who could be a foreshadowing of tyrions fate, http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tyland_Lannister. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lann_the_Clever.

 

my thread on this

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/147816-crackpot-jeyne-westerling/

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Mystic-client confidentiality. The fortune was for Cersei alone, and the only reason Melara Hetherspoon got to hear it (and Cersei got to hear Melara's) is that the two girls going into the tent together implied consent for them both to hear everything that was said.

ETA: I wasn't quite clear...Maggy never told her family because it would have been a violation of her professional ethics.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The Spicers didn't know about Maegy's  prophecy for Cercei. The only one who knew besides Cercei was Melora , and she died later that night .

[Stormourne]

Perhaps.

[Ser Petyr Parker]

On 19/08/2017 at 11:13 AM, The Sleeper said:

That said it is more or less implied that they engineered Jeyne's wedding to Robb. I would very much like to know, how they pulled that off. For one it indicates precognition. The concoction that Sybelle brewed her daughter also suggests that her grandmother taught her a thing or two.

What's the implication you're thinking of? Engineering it just doesn't make sense in any way that I can think of.

[The Sleeper]

Sybell getting rewards from Tywin. Rolph Spicer being raised as lord of Castamere. And Tywin's little speech at the fools being cleverer than those who laugh at them at the start of Storm.

And yes, engineering something like that, sounds implausible. I have written some ideas on how it might have happenes at my post following the one you quoted.

[Lion of the West]

They probably just didn't care about what old granny said about seeing into the future. Not all people in Westeros are going to base their lives around some prophecy that their old granny claims to be true.