Angel Eyes Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Why wasn't Daenerys' (Daeron's sister) legitimacy questioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 10 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Why wasn't Daenerys' (Daeron's sister) legitimacy questioned? Who would gain from that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Who would gain from that? Well, put it this way: if one of Naerys' children is actually a bastard, why not the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Because the king said so. This is all slander by Aegon the Unworthy. He disliked his sister-wife, his noble Kingsguard brother, and his son and heir. His daughter Daenerys was most likely nothing to him, not to mention that she was still a young girl by the time the king died. In addition, it is quite clear that Queen Naerys had not intention to have further children and was constantly raped by her brother-husband throughout their marriage, resulting in a lot of unwanted pregnancies many of which led to stillbirths. The king apparently never indicated that any of those children were not his seed. We also know that Aemon and Naerys were physically close around the time of Aegon's wedding as well as - presumably - the time after. But we don't know where the Dragonknight was in 171-72 when Daenerys was conceived and born. He could have been there. But he could have just as well been on some errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Because the king said so. This is all slander by Aegon the Unworthy. He disliked his sister-wife, his noble Kingsguard brother, and his son and heir. His daughter Daenerys was most likely nothing to him, not to mention that she was still a young girl by the time the king died. In addition, it is quite clear that Queen Naerys had not intention to have further children and was constantly raped by her brother-husband throughout their marriage, resulting in a lot of unwanted pregnancies many of which led to stillbirths. The king apparently never indicated that any of those children were not his seed. We also know that Aemon and Naerys were physically close around the time of Aegon's wedding as well as - presumably - the time after. But we don't know where the Dragonknight was in 171-72 when Daenerys was conceived and born. He could have been there. But he could have just as well been on some errand. In-story it's all slander, but for the reader, assuming Aegon is the Blackfyre, it means Jon Snow and Daenerys are descendants of the Dragonknight and Aegon descends from the Unworthy. Of course that won't mean anything for the characters in ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: In-story it's all slander, but for the reader, assuming Aegon is the Blackfyre, it means Jon Snow and Daenerys are descendants of the Dragonknight and Aegon descends from the Unworthy. Of course that won't mean anything for the characters in ASOIAF. I don't get your meaning there. Why should anybody care from which Targaryen dude some characters in the books are descended? That is not important at all. Neither in-universe nor for the readers. Especially since there will never be a clear answer to any of this. It is the same with the parentage of Aenys I. We'll never learn whether the Conqueror was truly his biological father or not - I doubt that, but there is no way to find out. And we have just Aegon's word that Daemon is his son. He could have lied there. I would have in his position. Daemon was a promising youth of royal blood, a perfect pawn to prop up against Prince Daeron. If all we have to confirm Daemon's parentage is Aegon's word - and as of yet that's all we got - then I don't trust that word all that much. It is very odd that the man did not acknowledge that particular bastard shortly after he took the Iron Throne. It makes sense that he did not while his cousin and father still ruled, but as king he could have taken Daemon into his household from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 8 hours ago, Lord Varys said: I don't get your meaning there. Why should anybody care from which Targaryen dude some characters in the books are descended? That is not important at all. Neither in-universe nor for the readers. Especially since there will never be a clear answer to any of this. It is the same with the parentage of Aenys I. We'll never learn whether the Conqueror was truly his biological father or not - I doubt that, but there is no way to find out. And we have just Aegon's word that Daemon is his son. He could have lied there. I would have in his position. Daemon was a promising youth of royal blood, a perfect pawn to prop up against Prince Daeron. If all we have to confirm Daemon's parentage is Aegon's word - and as of yet that's all we got - then I don't trust that word all that much. It is very odd that the man did not acknowledge that particular bastard shortly after he took the Iron Throne. It makes sense that he did not while his cousin and father still ruled, but as king he could have taken Daemon into his household from the start. You don't like poetry, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: You don't like poetry, do you? Sure, I do. I just don't think that Aegon and Aemon rhyme all that well if you take my meaning. I mean, genetically it is completely irrelevant from which son of Viserys II Daeron II and his successors are descended from, right? And claim-wise the Blackfyres are dead. They are extinct in the male line, making the Mopatis line about as impressive as the Targaryen-Tarths, the Targaryen-Plumms, or the Targaryen-Penroses. And nobody is going to ask these people to sit the throne. The Targaryen-Blackfyre conflict is a thing of the past. The Blackfyres are as relevant today as the Jacobites are in our world. Aegon might be a distant Blackfyre echo, but the deciding question for him will be whether Westeros accepts him as a Targaryen or not. If they don't it won't matter whether he is a whore's son or some Blackfyre descendant or both. People will care that he tried to deceive them, that he is an impostor and a liar, not that he happened to have some royal blood after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeofHouseTargaryen Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Naming Daenerys as a bastard would not necessarily do much in Daemon Blackfyre's favor. His purpose was to get Daeron II off the Iron Throne, and Naerys wouldn't be much of a threat. Her children won't be heirs to the Iron Throne, they will be princes and princesses of Dorne. If I were Daemon Blackfyre, I would target the King's direct descendants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Sure, I do. I just don't think that Aegon and Aemon rhyme all that well if you take my meaning. I mean, genetically it is completely irrelevant from which son of Viserys II Daeron II and his successors are descended from, right? And claim-wise the Blackfyres are dead. They are extinct in the male line, making the Mopatis line about as impressive as the Targaryen-Tarths, the Targaryen-Plumms, or the Targaryen-Penroses. And nobody is going to ask these people to sit the throne. The Targaryen-Blackfyre conflict is a thing of the past. The Blackfyres are as relevant today as the Jacobites are in our world. Aegon might be a distant Blackfyre echo, but the deciding question for him will be whether Westeros accepts him as a Targaryen or not. If they don't it won't matter whether he is a whore's son or some Blackfyre descendant or both. People will care that he tried to deceive them, that he is an impostor and a liar, not that he happened to have some royal blood after all. Oh, bother... It's a little clue for the reader, and that's all it is. In fact, it doesn't even matter if it's true or not (well, nothing in this story is true, since it is fiction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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