polishgenius Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 While I'm not a huge fan of the Hand in general and agree with everyone else that I hope they're done (plus, while all these secret assassin societies across both Marvel and DC are always a bit similar, the obssession with resurrection and the destruction of New York made their similarity to R'has Al-Ghul distracting), I disagree with most others it seems: I thought this show did well in giving them some proper faces the heroes could bounce off. Sigourney Weaver in particular did an excellent job of giving them a human, nuanced face rather than just being some faceless horde bent on taking over the world! Like, that was her plan but she also had things she clearly cared about and fears that motivated her. Also thought Sowande was very entertaining- was a shame that he was the one killed off so early, would have liked to have seen more made of his skill in getting into the heroes' heads. The timing of Alexandra's death was fine for me though, it allowed Elodie Yung to bring back the smirking, in-love-with-death Elektra rather than the blank Black Sky, but they did then let the side down by not giving Elektra's response after she wakes up any real coherence. The biggest negative for me was that the Black Sky thing really just never, ever made any sense. Nothing was explained, she was never shown to be more powerful than the other leaders of the Hand, as mentioned her power levels varied from second to second, and they're still trying to pretend like there wasn't a whole other plan in DD season 1 where Black Skies were something rare but not unique and seemed to do something other than just run around kicking ass. It's like, after the change in showrunner for s2, the new guys went 'let's make it Elektra, that'll be a twist!' but didn't think through what that was gonna actually be. The best bit was, just generally, how the heroes (and all their friends) bounced off each other and tangled into each others' plots and lives. Kristen Ritter particularly sparked well with everyone she came across. Quote Why New York would fall if those were removed, I have no idea. Why the Hand wanted New York to fall, I don't know either. The Hand didn't want New York to fall, they just wanted the Substance more than they cared about New York falling. Why it would isn't really explained, but that was one thing that didn't especially need to be to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I'll post more thoughts later but I wanted to point out, for those that didn't know, that Matt was apparently saved by ... (comics spoiler) His mother. Who is a nun called Maggie. Or it could be just an homage I guess but this would give them a suitably tragic storyline for season 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I feel like they are very inconsistent with Jessica Jones' strength, and also Luke Cage's to some extent. I like how those two being not proficient fighters have hard time landing blows. But really, when they do get a shot in the hit should be devastating. They should be one punch (or kick) and done kind of fighters, when facing off against mundane Hand warriors. Perhaps the elites of the Hand might be able to take several hits, and maybe not fly across the room. But for most of the Defenders' enemies they shouldn't stand up after a hit from either Jones or Cage. Perhaps they are pulling their punches, but that doesn't make a lot of sense, when they are literally in death match fights most of the time, and that shouldn't mean you pull your punched (and kicks and throws) down to normal human levels of strength. And honestly, I don't know why the whole team doesn't just say, "Luke, the dangerous chick with the swords is all yours. Just try to land one good one on her, but otherwise just keep her blades busy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 It's been obvious since at least DD season 2 that there wasn't a consistent conception of how the Hand worked or what a Black Sky was: either they had no coherent plan for this from the start, or it got changed. So that didn't come as a surprise to me, which is probably why I didn't care so much about it. The writers on Defenders were basically vamping in places to try to cover up bits from DD and Iron Fist that don't make sense or don't work together. They had a fix-up job to do and did the best they could. As for Luke and Jessica's strength, Stick does have a go at Luke for pulling his punches at one point. Luke's invulnerability is another issue, but again, this is comic books. If a martial artist is able to hurt him by 'pressure points' or other handwavium, I'm fine with that as a storytelling tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 22 hours ago, polishgenius said: The Hand didn't want New York to fall, they just wanted the Substance more than they cared about New York falling. Why it would isn't really explained, but that was one thing that didn't especially need to be to be fair. I'm pretty sure Madame Gao said something like "New York will fall, just like it should". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Anyone know what the deal is with Madame Gao's telekinesis power? I've been wondering about that a while, but I was waiting to ask because I assumed it would be explained. Maybe I missed it somewhere. The heroes really made this season a great one, but that was in the face of some headwinds from the plot. I was really surprised actually how well the chemistry was with the Defenders. They really did seem enjoy each other's company even while under constant stress and danger. The Daredevil and Jessica Jones interactions were my favorite part of the series. Also really loved the whole restaurant scene. They did do a better job with the Hand than in the past, but past inconsistencies piled up. I think the big reason the Hand sucked so badly in Iron Fist is they couldn't really deal with anything or advance the plot because of what they were planning for Defenders. It was lots of treading water. I'm glad the plot finally moved forward at least and hope we don't see the Hand for a long time in these shows. The more human opponents like the Kingpin and the Punisher have been far more successful and fit these shows more. It's far past time for Bullseye. Alexandra started off with the potential to be a very good to great villian. She was one of the best things in the earlier slower moving episodes actually. Of course it helps that they got a legendary actress to play her. They kind of wasted her though and killed her early. Her threats were very believable, but we didn't get to see a lot of them actually carried out. I like the Elektra character, but she just could not carry the big bad role. I did greatly enjoy the big team fights though. It reminded me of some of the early Xmen movie fights. Loved all the interactions with the backup characters and stuff, but some of them got less time on screen than others. Don't know how to rate this really. It definitely did the job of entertaining me. I think the use of the Hand and the under use of Alexandra did hold the season back some, however. Kind of a wasted opportunity. She reminded me of some of the Kingpin's scenes. But it was like the Kingpin if he never fought and the writers didn't let us spend much time with him. One of the genius things about DD 1 was how it was almost a story as much about the Kinpin as it was DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-for-Joffrey Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Another complaint about how the Hand makes absolutely no flipping sense -- Harold Meecham seemed to have an infinite number of reconstructions after his initial resurrection (barring decapitation or incineration of course) in Iron Fist but they five "fingers" of the Hand who started the whole damn thing don't seem to have the benefit of this, which was the main driver of the plot as they're going on about how they can't resurrectt themselves without the "substance." Wtf? Other than that I enjoyed it except for Finn Jones's acting and some cringe-worthy dialogue in places. (And the whole Hand not making sense/being a pit of a plotting cluster fuck throughout the Netflix universe thing.) Also, more Hogarth please. I really, really want to know what happened to her fiance/office assistant after she was Kilgraved into killing Hogarth's ex wife. I guess that'll be addressed in season 2 of Jessica Jones though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, All-for-Joffrey said: Another complaint about how the Hand makes absolutely no flipping sense -- Harold Meecham seemed to have an infinite number of reconstructions after his initial resurrection (barring decapitation or incineration of course) in Iron Fist but they five "fingers" of the Hand who started the whole damn thing don't seem to have the benefit of this, which was the main driver of the plot as they're going on about how they can't resurrectt themselves without the "substance." Wtf? Or how in Daredevil, Hand flunkies didn't fear death and apparently got resurrected. Not just Nobu, but random dude who had autopsy cuts and then came back. The idea that Alexandra gave up ALL of their substance for the Black Sky should make everyone pissed off - not just the 5 fingers of the Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Maybe there's a different type of resurrection? Harold was going insane,as was the villager soldier who was mentioned by someone explaining the resurrection. Maybe the leaders didn't want to subject themselves to that type. Using the substance is a true resurrection. Or I'm just trying to justify a plot hole the writers didn't care to close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 15 hours ago, mormont said: It's been obvious since at least DD season 2 that there wasn't a consistent conception of how the Hand worked or what a Black Sky was: either they had no coherent plan for this from the start, or it got changed. So that didn't come as a surprise to me, which is probably why I didn't care so much about it. The writers on Defenders were basically vamping in places to try to cover up bits from DD and Iron Fist that don't make sense or don't work together. They had a fix-up job to do and did the best they could. As for Luke and Jessica's strength, Stick does have a go at Luke for pulling his punches at one point. Luke's invulnerability is another issue, but again, this is comic books. If a martial artist is able to hurt him by 'pressure points' or other handwavium, I'm fine with that as a storytelling tool. I can understand Luke pulling his punches, he's somewhat less in danger if someone gets the upper hand on him in a fight, so he can keep his big hits in reserve. But Jessica has no real invulnerability nor much more than street brawling fighting skills so she should not be holding back. I'm miffed that they didn't show Luke actually taking down Sowande. It was a bit cheap having Luke being taken away from the fight but then tracking him down...somehow. It was clear that the chi-blocking moves of Sowande were having minimal effect on Luke, so he was likely to win a face off, but how did he get back to the fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Didn't like it. The Hand was too weak. Its leaders were weak and its members were weak. Did the Punisher machine-gun down all the intimidating ninjas in the Hand in DD S2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I keep wanting to start this show because I love Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage, but I could never get through more than a few episodes of Iron Fist. Not sure if I need to have watched all of Iron First to see the Defenders. Is there any pertinent info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Honestly, yes. But you can probably skate over it. Watch it just to see Luke kick Danny's ass in a fight. Then call Danny out on his privilege. Then roll his eyes when Danny tells Matt he's the 'Immortal Iron Fist'. Danny does not have a great time in this series, is what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Iron Fist and Daredevil 2 are the most pertinent in terms of settings and characters and the like, but I think you'll do just fine not having seen all of IF. It's explained pretty much where everyone is and what they're doing. Danny (and Colleen) are the only ones who's actions are continued from their show (and even then it's literally just 'Hunting the Hand',) all the rest are starting off in a different place. You'll miss little things like Colleen's relationship to a bad guy, and some of the things people are making fun of Danny for, but even that's fairly self explanatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I feel like making fun of Danny is always self-explanatory. "Come on, Ironclad." "It's Iron Fist." "I know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I didn't watch any of Iron Fist beforehand (or read any plot summaries, though I'm familiar with the general background of the character) and I got by just fine. The only stuff you really should have watched is Daredevil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Better than Iron Fist, better than the back half of Luke Cage, but that's it. DDS2 was a fair bit better, DDS1 and JJ were waaaaaaay better. Really disappointed actually. I thought they'd rest on the proven successes from the four of them, but the plot revolves largely around Iron Fist and good lord Finn Jones cannot act. At all. I couldn't stand a single scene he was in. So far I haven't missed a single minute of the MCU but how I'll get through a season 2 of that show with his single 'confused/angry' expression I have no idea. Defenders never dipped down into really terrible territory for me, but it did nothing better than any of the individual shows and had virtually nothing in the way of its own identity. Daredevil had better fight scenes, Jessica Jones had a much stronger theme, Luke Cage had more heart. The Netflix stuff definitely needs to sweep the Hand aside and start fresh with something better. DD3, JJ2, Punisher and LC2 all still have the potential to be great (no way IF2 can compensate for Finn Jones though) so hopefully this is a middle dip for the Netflix stuff and not an exhausted idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 6 hours ago, mormont said: Honestly, yes. But you can probably skate over it. Watch it just to see Luke kick Danny's ass in a fight. Then call Danny out on his privilege. Then roll his eyes when Danny tells Matt he's the 'Immortal Iron Fist'. Danny does not have a great time in this series, is what I'm saying. This is all I need to know to hit play as fast as possible on Defenders. Danny getting pwnd by Luke, yum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 So why did Claire and Matt pretend they didn't know each other, even when they were in the same scene? Did they both have amnesia? Maybe Claire wouldn't wanna mention their relationship so as to not make Luke jealous, but they could've at least exchanged a few meaningful glances or something? It's a shame, as I liked their chemistry was more than Luke-Claire or Matt-Karen. Anyway, the show gets a 5/10 from me. Not shit, but after watching it I couldn't recall a single time I was emotionally invested in anything happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmanion Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 yeah the claire thing was a bit weird i would have thought she would at least contact matt when she brings if and lc together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.