Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of his Name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men.

[Lost Melnibonean]

43 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Not sure if an 18-year-old would react that way.

I agree, which puts his age at fifteen, sixteen, or near enough to make no matter, just as the author told us.

[Lord Varys]

32 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

LOL!  So Robb had no right to be mean to the poor little rich boy, because he was, after all, rich and powerful; not to mention vindictive and vengeful.

But Young Griff had every right to be abusive to the ugly dwarf Yollo, because Yollo was powerless.

I see where you're coming from.  

Sure, that's how people like that react. I mean, you do know how Theon and Robb treated those young women they did (or may) have hung out with/fucked, right? Power breeds jerks, and even a nice boy like Bran shows that when he talks to the wildlings and deserters in the Wolfswood. He is afraid of them but he also shows that he is better than them by virtue of birth and rank.

It is not a crime or even wrong behavior when a nobleman treats a peasant like shit (unless he does not cross a certain line - even Joff understands that he cannot kill Mycah). It comes with the privilege. Nobility/royalty who treat the commoners as human beings (or as peers) are a dime in a dozen, going against the established customs of their society.

That is very well shown in Dunk & Egg where it is very clear that a man like Dunk feels uncomfortable around proper knights. And even more so among ancient nobility. He has no place there.

But where is Aegon abusive towards Tyrion? He just knocks over a board game. He doesn't slap him or anything. That is what happens:

Quote

Young Griff jerked to his feet and kicked over the board. Cyvasse pieces flew in all directions, bouncing and rolling across the deck of the Shy Maid. “Pick those up,” the boy commanded.
He may well be a Targaryen after all. “If it please Your Grace.” Tyrion got down on his hands and knees and began to crawl about the deck, gathering up pieces.

Aegon later makes his buddy Rolly a member of his Kingsguard. He isn't vindictive or anything. He rewards good service and especially loyalty. He is pissed how Tyrion treated him but he actually thinks about the entire thing, taking his advice to his heart.

When it turns out that Dany isn't coming to Volantis it is the smartest move to go to Westeros without her while the Realm is still in chaos. If they went all the way to Slaver's Bay they could stuck there for years while their enemies in Westeros could regroup and strengthen their position in the meantime.

[Lord Varys]

6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I agree, which puts his age at fifteen, sixteen, or near enough to make no matter, just as the author told us.

I expected you to say that but it is somewhat childish even for a youth of that age. George has a strange way of portraying children at times, some knew and act very mature before they are ten years old and do stuff no children of that ages would do (just look at Rhaenyra's sons and Aemond) and then you have adolescents like Aegon.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I expected you to say that but it is somewhat childish even for a youth of that age. George has a strange way of portraying children at times, some knew and act very mature before they are ten years old and do stuff no children of that ages would do (just look at Rhaenyra's sons and Aemond) and then you have adolescents like Aegon.

Weren't you arguing up thread that Aegon's reaction was understandable? 

[Lord Varys]

3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Weren't you arguing up thread that Aegon's reaction was understandable? 

Him being pissed is understandable. Him throwing around the board game is childish.

But my point was actually that I don't buy for a moment that this establishes (or is supposed to establish) Aegon as a 'bad guy' or an irrational evil hothead, or or another Maegor the Cruel or Aerion Brightflame.

Overall Aegon is a nice guy. And with very little Targaryen blood if he is not Rhaegar's son.

[Lord Varys]

10 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

I thought the question was whether he would make a good king, not whether he could already be considered the incarnation of Satan.

Boromir (from LotR) was not a bad guy.  But he was obviously not the sort of person one would trust with the Ring of Power.  I don't think I'd want to lead Young Griff into that sort of temptation either.   

Aegon is likely going to be a very good king since he is not going to get any such temptations. He might fail anyway because he is going to be defeated by Daenerys. It may even turn out to be a shithead when the negotiations begin after Dany arrives but I'm not sure I will be able to blame him for that.

I mean, if he sits the Iron Throne then because he earned the throne by winning quite a few decisive battles, most likely, and in this world no king can back down after that and save face or retain his own self-image. That would be like the Conqueror deciding to grant the conquered kingdoms independence again, or the Young Dragon deciding he doesn't want Dorne after all, now that he has conquered it.

I guess there is a chance that we'll see a deterioration there with Aegon crossing more than a few lines in his fight against Daenerys, but I don't think that's going to be necessary during his campaign for the Iron Throne.

If we ignore Daenerys for a moment, Aegon most definitely is the best pretender we have right now. Tommen is a joke, Stannis is mediocre at best, and Euron is a sadistic madman. Aegon is smart, charming, has the proper dynastic background and the royal looks, and is surrounded by pretty competent and reasonable people. If he wasn't going to face any supernatural threats (dragons or Others) in the future he would be the ideal king to rebuild Westeros once he has taken over.

[John Doe]

Aegon is much better than Daenerys, but still, far from being a perfect ruler. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 8/20/2017 at 9:15 AM, Ser Petyr Parker said:

The cyvasse incident is... concerning, but I suppose it could just be a one off. I'm re-reading aDwD at the moment so I don't remember all the details that I haven't yet got to. But to me, Aegon seems very average. Maybe in real life you couldn't hope for much more in a teenager, but in the story he doesn't compare favourably to Robb, for example. Of course Robb made a huge mistake, but it was a good chunk of bad luck that put him in the position to make that mistake in the first place. Robb at least had the benefit of growing up receiving practical lessons on how to lead and look after his people. Aegon will have had to stick to theory at best, and has grown up thinking he's a prince who is owed a million things who will one day be given the power he deserves. Humility for him is probably more a necessity to gain power, rather than a necessity for someone who holds power. His best feature is that he listens to those who know better than him, but he needs to have some good ideas of his own, too. All that said, I don't think it's totally fair to judge him yet - I'm probably reading too much into his mini-Joff tantrum.

 

Lol:

“Damn the man,” Robb swore. “If the old fool does not relent and let me cross, he’ll leave me no choice but to storm his walls. I’ll pull the Twins down around his ears if I have to, we’ll see how well he likes that!”

The only difference between Robb, Aegon, and Joffrey in being a petulant teenager is Robb did it in front of his mother and uncle, not friends, advisers and sycophants. 

[Ser Petyr Parker]

On 8/21/2017 at 9:33 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

Lol:

“Damn the man,” Robb swore. “If the old fool does not relent and let me cross, he’ll leave me no choice but to storm his walls. I’ll pull the Twins down around his ears if I have to, we’ll see how well he likes that!”

The only difference between Robb, Aegon, and Joffrey in being a petulant teenager is Robb did it in front of his mother and uncle, not friends, advisers and sycophants. 

The situations are quite different. Robb's was angry with Walder Frey, but not to his face. He didn't exercise his power over or try to punish anyone.

[The Sleeper]

Robb has no difference from Joffrey. You can tell from when he publically beat little girls and had them stripped naked for the amusement of his court.

[Lord Varys]

On 21.8.2017 at 10:17 PM, John Doe said:

Aegon is much better than Daenerys, but still, far from being a perfect ruler. 

Well, I'd reserve judgment on that until we finally see him rule. Sitting on a pole boat and commanding an army of sellswords/brigands is not exactly 'ruling'. He has the potential to be a good rule in comparison to all the others in the field, but considering that Tommen, Stannis, and Euron are basically just jokes or frights that is hardly surprising.

4 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

The situations are quite different. Robb's was angry with Walder Frey, but not to his face. He didn't exercise his power over or try to punish anyone.

He didn't get the chance there. But he did with Lord Rickard Karstark, did he not? The man was one of his most loyal followers until he wasn't because his king wouldn't give him the justice he demanded. Robb is clearly acting like a self-righteous prick when he is making his decision. He breaks a marriage pact (something he most likely would have condemned if the Freys had done it in his place), he marries a nobody because he deflowered her, he pardons his lady mother for the treason she committed while bringing down the full power of the law on Rickard Karstark. He trusts the hostage he grew up with against the advice of other, smarter people. He even thinks as a king he can free someone from the solemn vow he swore to the old gods to join the NW.

He is not a good king. He tries to be but nobody taught him to do it properly.

[Ser Petyr Parker]

31 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

But he did with Lord Rickard Karstark, did he not? The man was one of his most loyal followers until he wasn't because his king wouldn't give him the justice he demanded.

Well I'm not here to defend Robb. I only brought him up to point out "Aegon's" shortcomings. But no, Rickard Karstark should have been executed. He went against a direct order to murder two children in the idiotic belief that doing so would be justice for the deaths of his sons who were killed by someone else in a battle he chose to send them into.

[Lord Varys]

18 minutes ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

Well I'm not here to defend Robb. I only brought him up to point out "Aegon's" shortcomings. But no, Rickard Karstark should have been executed. He went against a direct order to murder two children in the idiotic belief that doing so would be justice for the deaths of his sons who were killed by someone else in a battle he chose to send them into.

Vendettas and blood feuds are quite common in this society. Robb shouldn't have been so soft about that, especially since he actually needed Karstarks support and men in his war. You cannot afford the moral high ground in a war you are actually losing. You have to do anything in your power to ensure that your men remain loyal to you. Robb shot himself in both feet - first with the ridiculous Westerling marriage and then with the Karstark execution. That cost him the support of both houses, and certainly didn't reassure his other supporters that he was a competent king who could win the war.

But anyway, he should have executed Jaime long ago, immediately after Joffrey had Ned executed.

[Lost Melnibonean]

7 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said:

(F)Aegon is DOOMED DOOMED DOOMED.  Whether or not he would make a better king than poor doomed Robb Stark is rather beside the point.

Most perceptive. 

[Leo of House Cartel]

One thing to consider is that Aegon will be surrounded by a whole new cast of characters for the foreseable future - The Golden Company.

 While we don't know exactly how long he spend on the poleboat, it's clear the crew of the Shy Maid had their own influences in shaping the young Prince's current personality. At between 16-18 years old, and now surrounded by some of the most highly sought after mercenaries in all of Planetos, one could not fault such a young mind for being entranced by this army of killers, conspirators and exiles - YG has already shown several traits typical of a teenage boy, so the idea of him eventually wanting to emulate the behaviour of the sellswords might not be out of the question.

For instance, how much of an influence might a Lysono Maar be on our young Dragon? A new friend who looks like your fallen family can be a massive deal for an orphan, and for all we know Aegon hasn't met anyone else with the purple eyes and silver-gold hair of Old Valyria. Even the likes of Tristan Rivers could leave quite the impression on Aegon, especially considering the Prince will be viewing these men's actions through the eyes of a teenage Prince who's birthright the mercs are helping reclaim.

The campaign itself - and all the rigors that come with it - are also bound to change Aegon in a pretty big way. 

 

[John Doe]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, I'd reserve judgment on that until we finally see him rule. Sitting on a pole boat and commanding an army of sellswords/brigands is not exactly 'ruling'. He has the potential to be a good rule in comparison to all the others in the field, but considering that Tommen, Stannis, and Euron are basically just jokes or frights that is hardly surprising.

Stannis has the right and ability on his side, Aegon has to go a long way if he wants to be compared to kings like him. 

 

But I agree that we should reserve judgment until we see him rule.

[Lord Varys]

12 minutes ago, John Doe said:

Stannis has the right and ability on his side, Aegon has to go a long way if he wants to be compared to kings like him. 

Stannis doesn't have it in him to let bygones be bygones if he ever ended up on the throne, and that's why he would become a second Maegor the Cruel and end the way he did in the end. Especially with the rise of the sparrow movement. The common people would never accept this heretic and demon-worshiper as their king. And one could even make a case that Stannis lost whatever claim he thought he had when he turned against the Faith of the Andals and broke the solemn vow of Jaehaerys I that the Iron Throne would always protect and defend the Faith.

Even the way he dispenses justice is a joke. The kind of justice Davos got is not the kind the overwhelming majority of the people of Westeros - nobility and commoners - would accept.

All that makes him a very bad king simply because he would not be able to establish a (lasting) peace. The only kind of peace Stannis could create is the peace of a graveyard. And that would make him a king of corpses.

Aegon has the name, the looks, the charisma, and possibly the ability. Stannis has neither of those things.

[Aegon1FanBoy]

I think he will hell he earned the respect of cut throats much like how Robb earned the Lords of the North respect (minus having to set a wolf on one or even injure one). He realizes his mistakes and does try to change ( he actually took all tyrions condescending advise and used it to his advantage, when he was scared by the stone man he resolved himself and even commanded them to save Tyrion). Hell he even pointed out correctly to Jon Con he doesn't want just men with great names and skill on his KG that he prefers loyalty and people who will die for him. correct me if i'm wrong, but even the creator of the KG (Visenya Motherfucking Targaryen) said thats what is really needed not just skill. He will learn and grow and he is doing well so far.

I don't get the canvass argument so much i remember Jon even yelling at Benjen for telling him don't rush your decision to the wall. Robb pretty much even backing out to Catelyn when he called the banners. Its learning and growing responding to provocation is normal especially when its meant to be insulting. 

He showed up late to Griff's solar- don't see a problem here he is infact griff's king he can show up when he wants or tells griff to meet him. 

The thing is he has yet to be fleshed out yet people are righting him off. I for one can't wait to see what he can do in TWOW. as long as he doesn't do anything stupid like Robb. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Stannis doesn't have it in him to let bygones be bygones if he ever ended up on the throne, and that's why he would become a second Maegor the Cruel and end the way he did in the end. Especially with the rise of the sparrow movement. The common people would never accept this heretic and demon-worshiper as their king. And one could even make a case that Stannis lost whatever claim he thought he had when he turned against the Faith of the Andals and broke the solemn vow of Jaehaerys I that the Iron Throne would always protect and defend the Faith.

Even the way he dispenses justice is a joke. The kind of justice Davos got is not the kind the overwhelming majority of the people of Westeros - nobility and commoners - would accept.

All that makes him a very bad king simply because he would not be able to establish a (lasting) peace. The only kind of peace Stannis could create is the peace of a graveyard. And that would make him a king of corpses.

Aegon has the name, the looks, the charisma, and possibly the ability. Stannis has neither of those things.

He definitely has an acceptable name, elsewise a "Baratheon" would not sit on the throne or have inherited it. He's a *bit* more flexible/tolerant than most people give him credit for -- see accepting Renly's former bannermen, forbidding burning of non believers in the crofter's village, relieving deepwood instead of attacking the dreadfort, et al -- but he would not be accepted as a king. No one likes him. He's converted to a foreign religion. His sole heir is a physically marked young girl. He want to ban whores.

[Jon Fossoway]

Stannis' rule feels more like a transition one. In a moment where there are so many factions fighting each other for the Throne, I would prefer a hardhand king who would not take shit from anyone. Aegon's charisma, good looks and proffiency at many things are more of a King during prosper times. If Stannis sits the Throne, thing would matter should be his succession and that's where is really his weak point. People accepted the incestuos Targaryens in the past. Why not the Red God, with the proper persuasion. There were dragons in the past. If Rahloo can work wonders, people will accept him as well.