Why do Lannisters have a reputation as a "villain family"?

[UFT]

you can't honestly blame an entire region for the actions of three. the westerlanders are relatively well adjusted and no less noble than in the riverlands or reach eg joanna, kevan, tytos, lancel, most of the rock kings. and the westerlander lords just followed orders (besides gregor who straight up enjoys it). 

contrast with boltons, dothraki and ironborn who seem to be all basically evil assholes with a few exceptions 

[LordImp]

Mainly because of Tywin. How brutally he dealt with the Reynes , the sack of KL and his bannerman Gregor. 

[The Sunland Lord]

I guess it's a generation thing. The Lannister regime is established in the era of the story we follow. And it produced psychopaths and war criminals like Joffrey, Tywin, Cercei, the Mountain (although he is their vassal, not one of them).  

 

[LindsayLohan]

51 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

I guess it's a generation thing. The Lannister regime is established in the era of the story we follow. And it produced psychopaths and war criminals like Joffrey, Tywin, Cercei, the Mountain (although he is their vassal, not one of them).  

 

When one of Eddard Stark's bannermen turned criminal, he took Ice and rode to behead the man (Jorah).  When one of Tywin's bannermen kills his own father, his multiple wives, rapes and murders Elia Martell (a princess of one of the Great Houses), then crushes the Crown Prince's head against a wall, Tywin did nothing.  People view the Lannisters as villains because they are villains.

[The Bard of Banefort]

In defense of the Boltons and Ironborn, both of them were fairly loyal for the majority of the Targaryens' rule. I think the Lannisters villainy derives almost entirely from Tywin's brutality. Not many houses have been completely extinguished by one ruler in recent Westerosi history: house Harroway, for instance, was killed off by Maegor the Cruel, and we all know what his legacy is. Tywin extinguished two noble houses, and he wasn't even a lord at the time, let alone hand of the king. Unfortunately, all of his children ate up all of his self-important propaganda and mistook his cruelty for brilliance. With Cersei, it's obvious: she wants to rule in her father's image. Tyrion may hate his father, but Genna was correct when she pegged him as "Tywin's son," and even as he yearns to burn his house to the ground, he still clearly takes pride in being a Lannister lion. Jaime is the wildcard: after his conversation with Genna, he tries to convince himself that he can be as ruthless as Tywin, and yet through all of AFFC, we see him show discomfort and revulsion with the sort of things that Tywin and Cersei wouldn't have batted an eye to -- dead soldiers, raped women, smallfolk hungry and suffering. He doesn't share his father's and siblings' political ambition, which is huge when you consider how much politics rules the Lannisters' lives. My guess is that his future run-in with Stoneheart will be when he finally has to comes to terms with his past and begin to forge a path free of Tywin Lannister. 

[White Ravens]

I agree with Lew Thobald:  Because they do bad things.  Also, they are descended from Lann the Clever who literally stole their house from the Casterlys.

[Gendarrion]

Cersei and Jaime corrupted the line of succession, Tywin's scorched earth brutality in Riverlands and Red Wedding, Lancel killing Robert. they really are a villain family.. Jaime and Tyrion looks like they are about to do something good though.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Do you want to talk about the Lannisters or the Westerlanders? Because the region and people who live there have never been vilified so far as I know.

There are three main reasons why the Lannisters are considered villains: Tywin, Cersei, and Joffrey. Then a secondary reason: twincest.

It doesn't help that Jaime pushed a 7 year old out a window, crippling him for life, but I could see Bran thanking him for that some day. And Jaime did lose that hand, so he's been punished.

[Lion of the West]

I also wonder why the Lannisters are considered villains as a whole. Its a large clan and they are really not at all different from any other family. To me they are the most interesting and dynamic family in Westeros the main reason for my interest. The only family that comes close to that is the backstory of the Targaryens but in the present series we only ever get like two Targaryens and so like the Arryns, there's just no enough Targaryens to go around to be as interesting as House Lannister.

[Graydon Hicks]

its an attitude thing. tywin had a reputation for ruthless, brutal, pragmatism, and was willing to go to war to avenge a slight against his house. cersie was a ruthless, narcissistic bitch willing to kill anyone who disagreed with her, and joffrey was a sadistic cowardly little psycopath.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Actually, the Lannisters we get to know are nothing like most of the other ruling families. Lets compare Tywin to the rulers of the Great Houses at the start of the series.

Eddard - Honorable, to the point of being the moral compass of the story.

Jon Arryn - Honorable and just, having likely influenced a large part of Ned's world view during his wardship in the Vale.

Robert Baratheon- A likeable drunkard, somewhat bufoonish, who suffers from inadequacy as a King, rather than any real malicious intent. Basically just wants to rowdily enjoy life.

Mace Tyrell - Lord Puff Fish. Incompetent, somewhat of a fool, but clearly loves his kids and even more so than Robert, is incompetent rather than evil or malicious.

Doran Martell - A contemplative, peaceful man, who has harboured a legitimate grievance for 15 years, but has largely avoided conflict as much as possible until now.

Hoster Tully - A stubborn patriarch who isn't very likeable, but who nevertheless seems a run of the mill medieval Lord without major psychopathic or narcissistic tendencies. Regarded fondly by Cat and Edmure, although Lysa rightly has her issues with him.

In short, Tywin is clearly a monster compared to all of the above. Balon Greyjoy is perhaps the only Great Lord in his league of evilness, and he is a friggin Ironborn Reaver.

Is it any wonder the Lannisters are the villains of the series? And that's before Cersei, Jaime of the window throwing fame, and Joffrey the Just even enter the picture.

[Dofs]

Because they were presented and played a role of THE villains in the first books. They don't anymore.

[TMIFairy]

I agree with the "Tywin and his brood" being the causes of vilification of the House Lannister. Under Tytos the family probably inspired "point and laugh" reactions.

Tywin? - 'nuff said.

Cersei? - murderess in her mid teens.

Jaime? - raper of his brother's wife in his mid teens. On his father's command, mind you.

Tyrion? - as ruthless as his father. Being smarter than Tywin means that he has to be brutal less often.

As to the Stark's - Eddard and his brood indeed do not strike one as particularly bright.

I disagree on the sympathetic picture of Robert painted above - IMO a piece of shit. However, far cry from the league of the likes of Tywin or Euron.

Every story needs villains. "Blond guys = bad guys" is in fashion nowadays.

[The Sleeper]

Apart from Aerys, all other memorable acts of brutality in the recent history of Westeros can be laid at Tywin's feet. It's not that he minds, he practically has a bard following him around playing the "Rains of Castamere".

Add the Kingslayer Jaime and you're set.

[Schwarze Sonne]

Because they first have Tywin, who then fathered Cersei and Jaime, the pair of shit who gave birth to the abomination Joffrey, not to mention the public enemy Tyrion. THREE generations of villainous characters in row. Most other house only have that ONE generation of traiterous dicks, only the Freys matched the Lannisters with THREE generations of dickheads, but the honorable Tullys have the most numbers of betraying their lord for gains including Robert's Rebellion, while the despicable Freys just betrayed Robb whom betrayed them first.

[kissdbyfire]

Agree 100% w/ @LindsayLohan and @Free Northman Reborn. And will add that imo Tywin is an utterly despicable human being.

@TMIFairy, Jaime never raped Tysha, only Tyrion (and the other Lannister men of course)

[norwaywolf123]

16 hours ago, UFT said:

you can't honestly blame an entire region for the actions of three. the westerlanders are relatively well adjusted and no less noble than in the riverlands or reach eg joanna, kevan, tytos, lancel, most of the rock kings. and the westerlander lords just followed orders (besides gregor who straight up enjoys it). 

contrast with boltons, dothraki and ironborn who seem to be all basically evil assholes with a few exceptions 

I dont think the lannisters have a bad reputation only tywins and his brood. Tywins brood is not the norm inside house lannister i belive. Besides these characters i think house lannister is seen as a normal house.

Tywin Lannister

- Extinguished house Reyne and Tarbeck

- Fathered a deformed dwarf and twins suspected of incest

- Was seen as arrogant and challanging king aerys power

- Did not pick a side in roberts rebbelion untill it was settled who would win

- Sacked Kings landing thru trickery

- Ordered the execution of the former royal family(targaryens) and protected his henchmen(gregor and amory). Still i think tywin would be less popular if he punished his henchmen for following orders.

- Using abnormall violence during the war of the five kings. Compared to westeros close past.

jaime Lannister

- Betrayed his kingsguard oath by slaying the king(aerys) he was sworn to serve

- Accused/Suspected of incest with his twin cersei. Some people also know about the twincest like Tyrion.

- Cuckolded the king making war inevitable if his bastard took the throne and someone where to challange his claim, betraying his kingsguard oath to king robert.

Cersei Lannister

- Accused/Suspected of incest with her twin jaime. Some people also know about the twincest like Tyrion.

- Betrayed her marriage vows to king robert by cheeting and cuckolding him.

Tyrion Lannister

- Is a ugly deformed dwarf

- Whoremonger

- Is seen as the killer of his nephew king joffrey

Joffrey Baratheon(Lannister)

- Cruel

- Egomaniac

[Lion of the West]

14 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

When one of Eddard Stark's bannermen turned criminal, he took Ice and rode to behead the man (Jorah).  When one of Tywin's bannermen kills his own father, his multiple wives, rapes and murders Elia Martell (a princess of one of the Great Houses), then crushes the Crown Prince's head against a wall, Tywin did nothing.  People view the Lannisters as villains because they are villains.

That makes no sense. That would make Tywin, the guy who has been dead for several books, a bad person, but I don't see the connection to make a whole family consisting of dozens of people villains.

8 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Actually, the Lannisters we get to know are nothing like most of the other ruling families. Lets compare Tywin to the rulers of the Great Houses at the start of the series.

Eddard - Honorable, to the point of being the moral compass of the story.

Jon Arryn - Honorable and just, having likely influenced a large part of Ned's world view during his wardship in the Vale.

Robert Baratheon- A likeable drunkard, somewhat bufoonish, who suffers from inadequacy as a King, rather than any real malicious intent. Basically just wants to rowdily enjoy life.

Mace Tyrell - Lord Puff Fish. Incompetent, somewhat of a fool, but clearly loves his kids and even more so than Robert, is incompetent rather than evil or malicious.

Doran Martell - A contemplative, peaceful man, who has harboured a legitimate grievance for 15 years, but has largely avoided conflict as much as possible until now.

Hoster Tully - A stubborn patriarch who isn't very likeable, but who nevertheless seems a run of the mill medieval Lord without major psychopathic or narcissistic tendencies. Regarded fondly by Cat and Edmure, although Lysa rightly has her issues with him.

In short, Tywin is clearly a monster compared to all of the above. Balon Greyjoy is perhaps the only Great Lord in his league of evilness, and he is a friggin Ironborn Reaver.

Is it any wonder the Lannisters are the villains of the series? And that's before Cersei, Jaime of the window throwing fame, and Joffrey the Just even enter the picture.

You're really selling the other Great House leaders as saints, which they are not.

Eddard I can agree with.

Jon Arryn I know to little about his life at large, only that he apparently was such a swell guy that his wife assassinated him and was driven insane during her life with him.

Robert Baratheon, also guilty of domestic abuse of wife and son. An ok king due to a lack of malicious intents in general but clueless as to deal with anything other than physical conflicts.

Mace Tyrell, was all to happy to rise in rebellion to get his daughter in as queen and put King's Landing under blockade, then when Renly died killed a score a people on suspecion before he jumped ship to the dread Lannisters and never looked back. Its rather clear that for all his incompetance was rather willing to keep Tywin and the Lannisters in power and walk over a ton of corpses to get power and influence at court.

Doran Martell, incompetent to the last and managed to manouver his own daughter into both hating him and also almost blow his plans to hell. In fact so far Doran has also got his own brother and a son wasted instead of leading the vengeance. Plotting and plotting, his plots falls to pieces at contact with reality.

Hoster Tully, I'm sure he was a swell guy when given what he wanted but if anyone defied him, who wasn't his beloved brother, then its fury and force abortion. But probably a nicer guy than some of the others.

[Universal Sword Donor]

7 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

I agree with the "Tywin and his brood" being the causes of vilification of the House Lannister. Under Tytos the family probably inspired "point and laugh" reactions.

Tywin? - 'nuff said.

Cersei? - murderess in her mid teens.

Jaime? - raper of his brother's wife in his mid teens. On his father's command, mind you.

Tyrion? - as ruthless as his father. Being smarter than Tywin means that he has to be brutal less often.

As to the Stark's - Eddard and his brood indeed do not strike one as particularly bright.

I disagree on the sympathetic picture of Robert painted above - IMO a piece of shit. However, far cry from the league of the likes of Tywin or Euron.

Every story needs villains. "Blond guys = bad guys" is in fashion nowadays.

Where did we learn that Jaime raped Tysha? We get the garrison paying her silver and Tyrion paying her gold because he's worth more as a lannister. Plenty of things to not like Jaime for but that would not be accurate.

[TMIFairy]

49 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

@TMIFairy, Jaime never raped Tysha, only Tyrion (and the other Lannister men of course)

Thank you for correcting me. I somehow thought that he was part of the "execution detail".