[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Illiterati]

1 minute ago, xjlxking said:

I'm not debating. I'm calling people out on  stuff they shouldn't be ranting about.

What's the difference between debating and calling people out, which is a juvenile form of debating?

[iprayiam]

5 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

I'm not debating. I'm calling people out on  stuff they shouldn't be ranting about.

What part of without repercussions do you not understand? This thread isn't called rant and rave about issues xjlxking finds worthy of criticism.

Mods, please moderate.

[Katleesi]

4 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

i said it last episode, but it bears repeating:

Jon and the Brotherhood without Banners should have stopped at WINTERFELL on their way North.  so much nonsense would have been avoided had they done this one simple change.  Because time/distance of travel no longer matters, it would've made perfect sense to stop there first:

1.  Jon could stop at Winterfell, proving to the doubting northern Lords and Ladies that he made the right decision in seeking out Dany.  He could have dropped off some of the dragonglass, again proving that he made the right decision going south.  He would have reunited with Arya and Bran.

2.  The so-stupid-its-insulting plot of Arya vs. Sansa would have been completely avoided.  

3.  The hound (with Beric and Thoros) could have stopped at Winterfell (as they would have, considering they were WALKING to Eastwatch by the Sea).  When the Hound sees Littlefinger, he would remember being in Joffrey's throne room when LF betrayed Ned.  He could reunite with Sansa, Arya AND Brienne while giving all three women a reason to snuff of LF before his character is destroyed by lack of clever writing.

4.  Gendry would have reunited with Arya, potentially steering her in a direction that wouldn't result in her becoming Hannibal Lecter.  the Brotherhood could have reunited with Arya as well...

5.  having the headquarters of the North plot focused on Winterfell instead of eastwatch (which BTW.... why eastwatch?  just to show us another castle??) just makes more sense.  Jon (and the Snowicide Squad) would return to Winterfell after being rescued by Dany, thus showing the Northern Lords and Ladies not only Queen Daenerys, but also her two dragons.  This is give these disloyal morons a reason to understand Jon's bending of the knee to the dragon queen, just as a previous King in the North knelt when confronted with the awesome power of dragons.

 

the show is garbage.  it's insulting to GRRM and fans of the original story every where.  this isn't fan service, it's an abomination.  

somewhere along the line, the excuse that "the show is ending, so it can be garbage" became acceptable. i do not accept this.  the show should be cancelled before any more damage is done to GRRM's work and the characters he created.

 

Let's hope GRRM is writing the story more along these lines!!!! and that he ever finishes it. 

[Cas Stark]

5 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

I'm not debating. I'm calling people out on  stuff they shouldn't be ranting about.

Next people are going to rant about how they haven't seen Jon take a piss in the toilet for 7 season. 

Basically, like I said, I don't mind a thread about complaint regarding legitimate issues or things.

Again, I refer you to the OP which spells out the parameters of this thread.  

[Lurid Jester]

7 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

Basically, like I said, I don't mind a thread about complaint regarding legitimate issues or things.

That's not your call though. You don't get to decide what are legitimate complaints and what aren't.  

Check out the rules in the first post. 

[Iotun]

7 minutes ago, xjlxking said:

I'm not debating. I'm calling people out on  stuff they shouldn't be ranting about.

Next people are going to rant about how they haven't seen Jon take a piss in the toilet for 7 season. 

Basically, like I said, I don't mind a thread about complaint regarding legitimate issues or things.

Well who are you to define what other people should or should not be ranting about?

I was one of the shows defenders up to about Season 4 or so, but I never debated in the Rant and Rave threads.

This is an issue that can be easily solved. Start your own thread titled 'Responding to IMO unwarranted complaints' and have at it.

[Houndbird]

16 hours ago, storm.131 said:

This thread will break all records in length:  there was so much to rant and rave about in this episode LOL

I'll choose just one thing:  only fire stops the Wights, Jon know this, yet they wasted so much time and energy swinging their weapons at them?  WTF?!?!?

Bad writing.    Can't remember the previous story lines

[Katleesi]

4 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

Sansa could have said, "Jon lost the Battle of the Bastards because i refused to tell him that i had the knights of the Vale waiting behind that hill over there" 

 

 

Crap. this is true. She did refuse to tell him,even though she did send for the "Vale-very". it was in secret.  Sansa makes a lot of mistakes, but she learns as she goes, and right now I think she is more genuine and better for Winterfell and the realm than Arya - who they are unable to convincingly write as a psychopath with a heart of gold, which is what she should be at this point. Arya is the girl with no name who has a name- but whatever they are writing now is just a shi*ty jealous little sister with a grudge (which she should have gotten over years ago when she started believing in herself).  

either way they are screwing this relationship up!

[Prince of the North]

Why didn't the NK use one of his two "Spears Ex Machina" to simply take out the Magnificent Seven on the little island (or, at least, Jon)?  Problem solved, right?

[Katleesi]

7 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I think it has not been mentioned before, but has anyone realized the WW are just a Gendry´s run from the Wall? If it does not fall at the very beginning of the next episode, I will officially start thinking the Night King has no intention whatsoever of invading Westeros and it is all in Jon´s imagination.

oh yea, had this thought last night. Explained it away to myself as follows: the NK's whole goal was to lure them up so he could snag an ice dragon. And Knows Nothing Jon Snow played right into it.   Now that he has one, they are coming, they are coming. 

[Katleesi]

7 hours ago, LokisRaider said:

 

- Jon - all you had to do was get on Drogon instead you decide to keep killing wights for... reasons? I feel everything now is done for no other reason then they need to work that way.

 

I literally kept screaming at the screen, "get on the damn dragon asshole"  This was the worst part of it for me. 

[Steelegrave]

15 hours ago, Snormund said:

Well there's Arya. Oops, I meant Bran. My mistake, I meant Davos. nope, Jaime. No that's not right Cersei. No....ah fuck it 

 

Come on there are a bunch they haven't destroyed.  Alys Karstark, Wyman Manderly, Jeyne Poole, Jeyne Westerling, Jon Connington, Victarion Greyjoy, Arianne Martell, Val, Brown Ben Plumm, Strong Belwas, Aegon, Penny, Jhogo,  Rhakaro and Aggo.  Shit I could go on for days.

[Armand Gargalen]

8 minutes ago, Steelegrave said:

Come on there are a bunch they haven't destroyed.  Alys Karstark, Wyman Manderly, Jeyne Poole, Jeyne Westerling, Jon Connington, Victarion Greyjoy, Arianne Martell, Val, Brown Ben Plumm, Strong Belwas, Aegon, Penny, Jhogo,  Rhakaro and Aggo.  Shit I could go on for days.

Irri and Jiqui, Septa Lemore, Edmure Tully, Anguy, Illyrio Mopatis, Patchface, Lord Harlaw...

[Ser Didymus]

21 minutes ago, Katleesi said:

Crap. this is true. She did refuse to tell him,even though she did send for the "Vale-very". it was in secret.  Sansa makes a lot of mistakes, but she learns as she goes, and right now I think she is more genuine and better for Winterfell and the realm than Arya - who they are unable to convincingly write as a psychopath with a heart of gold, which is what she should be at this point. Arya is the girl with no name who has a name- but whatever they are writing now is just a shi*ty jealous little sister with a grudge (which she should have gotten over years ago when she started believing in herself).  

either way they are screwing this relationship up!

it is so utterly disappointing that the show has sent fans on this wild goose chase of "Sansa vs. Arya."

this is not a critique of you or your opinion.  i am saying this is criminal negligence on the part of the showrunners that this thought is even entering your mind.  it shows just how far-gone the show is when beloved characters that we've been watching for years (and GRRM has been creating for decades) are suddenly "at each other's throats" because the clowns in the writers' room couldn't figure out a better way to get these characters on screen for +/- 60 minutes this season.

Sansa even speaks to the time line (ironic, if not idiotic by the writers), saying "i haven't head from Jon in weeks!"  Sansa, you're the Lady of Winterfell.  send a damn raven if you are concerned.  but i digress.  i posted earlier about how this entire plotline could have been avoided in they had jon/bwb stop at Winterfell on their way North.  oh well..

[Ser Quork]

Tis here.

[Kyll.Ing.]

I'm usually of the opinion that 90 % of the posts in the rant threads are just made for the sake of picking the episode apart. Therefore, I tend to avoid the threads.

However, the plot line beyond the wall was such an incoherent clusterfudge from its conception to its aftermath that an "oh, it was all a dream and I'm still on Dragonstone and we're mining dragonglass" ending would actually have improved it at this point.

The... incident... has been covered so extensively by now that I guess that the original contribution I could make would be to point out that the chains would be more likely to tear the head off the dragon than pulling it out of the water. It's stuck under the ice, and a lot of force is applied. At the very least, its neck would be soundly broken in a dozen places.

[iprayiam]

46 minutes ago, Katleesi said:

oh yea, had this thought last night. Explained it away to myself as follows: the NK's whole goal was to lure them up so he could snag an ice dragon. And Knows Nothing Jon Snow played right into it.   Now that he has one, they are coming, they are coming. 

The problem with this take is that it basically has to make the NK omniscient. He at a minimum would have to have known:

• That there are dragons
• That has the dragons had an owner(s)
• That the party he had surrounded was associated with the dragon owner
• That Gendry would make it back to the wall
• That he would send a raven explaining the situation
• That the dragon owner would respond by coming to the rescue with the dragons
• That in the ensuing rescue he would have an extremely good chance at bagging a dragon and not burned to death

Think about it. It is implied strongly that Dany's rescue was related to her feelings for Jon, so the NK would not just need to know that all these people exist in the first place, know eachother, and are in a position to be capable of helping each other. He would also need to be intimately familiar with Dany's personality  and feelings for Jon to the point of predicting her reaction. It wasn't a given that anyone in her situation would have come to the rescue.

On top of that, he would have had to be really really sure it would play out in his favor to be worth the risk. I mean three fire breathing dragons pose a great risk to decimating the army he's assemble. It's quite a gamble.

For me to believe that it was pre-planned requires a level of omniscience and/or recklessness that feels like complete garbage and really takes me out of believing it. The only way for me to accept this whole scenario is if the NK turns out to be Bran all along.

Of course, the alternative is that the NK, prepared enough to have giant chains on hand just in case he came across a dragon, literally spent a day(s?) stumped by a little bit of water between his entire army and 7 freezing dudes.

 

[The Fattest Leech]

26 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Tis here.

Drogon zig zags 

[iprayiam]

After more reflection, I'm thinking about the sheer stupidity that the NK is such a thorough packer for war that he even has giant, heavy chains on hand for dragon-fishing, but absolutely nothing with him to cross over a patch of melted lake.

Couldn't they have felled a tree and laid it across the lake. Was standing and waiting really the best plan the NK could come up with? The only way to buy this is to accept that they have Zero tools at their disposal, and yet the next scene: Chains.

Those criticizing this as a nitpick fail to understand the bigger context. Paper thin writing. Nothing that isn't currently onscreen is assumed to exist, until the writers decide they need it to get the shot they want. Thus everything lacks a certain depth and the show feels like a play. Every action is very contrived.

Characters in the show very awkwardly don't act believably or solve problems in obvious ways. Good writing would have depth of background off screen and consider what a character, group, or army would have or do, then write how a scene plays out from that. Bad writing contrives scenarios and desired outcomes, then fills in the gaps.

[Iotun]

If you explain the plot with the excuse that the NK has some kind of power of seeing into other lands similar to Bran, and was therefor laying a trap to capture a dragon, then be prepared to be consistent in that view. If in another episode next season the Night King is ambushed, surprised, or defeated by some plan that the heroes hatched in secret, you'll have to explain why he did not know of that plan before hand. Otherwise, the show is just being inconsistent and incoherent.