[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[iprayiam]

12 hours ago, Tadco26 said:

Remember when a single wight was a huge threat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2TlSM-2SyI&t=1m22s

Now they die in one hit like video game minions.  They were so easy to kill that it makes the threat seem trivial.

Yes it reminds me of Power Rangers or Ninja Turtles. If I remember my childhood correctly, in the first episode/encounter the Putties/Foot Soldiers/thugs are a real threat that nearly beat the heros. By episode two, they fall apart just by looking at them.

This trope is tedious and it always sucks. It sucked in Age of Ultron, and it sucks here

[iprayiam]

11 hours ago, darmody said:

You overestimate the knowledge required. All the Night King would need is a vision like the Hound's: something telling him he'll be surrounding a group of humans when dragons show up and that this is *really important*. If, as some people speculate, the dragon can get him over the Wall, it would be worth it. 

Even if it would require God-like knowledge, we already know Bran sees all, don't we? And Bran and the Night King have some sort of weird connection. Not a giant leap to think he can see the future, too. 

 

That's why I said "For me to believe that it was pre-planned requires a level of omniscience and/or recklessness that feels like complete garbage and really takes me out of believing it."

Vague "Foreseeing" is a garbage writer's shortcut, especially when it is applied sloppily. If the NK had seen this ahead of time, he really sucked at capitalizing on his opportunity. Why did he wait so long to throw his first spear? Why didn't he throw it at Drogon. Why didn't he kill the fellowship before Dany got there? It goes on. It's nothing but sloppy writing.

[fairwarging]

On 8/20/2017 at 8:13 PM, Snormund said:

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't understand why they didn't just take part of the bear back. 

Wouldn't it just look like a regular decomposing polar bear? I think they would be laughed at if their specimen wasn't living. 

[fairwarging]

On 8/20/2017 at 8:15 PM, Raksha 2014 said:

 

I think the show has a serious problem portraying strong women.  They had Brienne, one of the most emotionally strong and compassionate women ever born in Westeros, torture the rapists before she killed them (whether or not they deserved it, it's not something Brienne would have done).  They had TV-Ellaria, who in the books was original enough in thought in word to speak up for not continuing an inter-generational revenge plot that could kill her daughters as it had her late lover, avenge her late lover by murdering his brother and nephew and nephew's fiancee.  They had the Waif, who, in the books was a teacher-sort-of-person (If I remember right), torment and then nearly kill Arya.  I'm not going to mention the wreck that was the TV-Sand Snakes.  And now Arya has turned on her sister and is threatening to kill her because Sansa isn't wearing a Jon Snow King in the North T-shirt or something?  

I can only hope that Sansa and Arya will manage to reconcile soon.  As of now, Arya, who was once almost the epitome of Stark-ness, is a danger to Winterfell.

When did she torture rapists? I don't remember that part

[Le Cygne]

33 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

LOL  Thank you, you have me LMAO!!  Team White Walker really is looking better and better. 

I wanted to be Team White Walker, but I can't after what he did to Viserion. The animal who was more human than the humans.

But Rhaegal should defect. Since mama doesn't seem to mind that his brother is gone. Fly off somewhere and wait this mess out.

[SuperMario]

So I finally watched the episode last night. I'm sure everyone here has pointed out all the horrible issues with the episode, so I won't rehash them here.

But after watching it, Winterfell might be the worst location/plot line in the history of television. Basically since Sandra returned there in season 5, it has literally destroyed every character and storyline it touches. Forget Greyscale, wildfire or the Night's King. If people really want to survive dawn, they need to destroy Winterfell before it destroys them all.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

7 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

So I finally watched the episode last night. I'm sure everyone here has pointed out all the horrible issues with the episode, so I won't rehash them here.

But after watching it, Winterfell might be the worst location/plot line in the history of television. Basically since Sandra returned there in season 5, it has literally destroyed every character and storyline it touches. Forget Greyscale, wildfire or the Night's King. If people really want to survive dawn, they need to destroy Winterfell before it destroys them all.

Dorne was worse, but Winterfell hurts more because it involves charactrers that we (used to) care about more.

[Ser Quork]

1 minute ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Dorne was worse, but Winterfell hurts more because it involves charactrers that we (used to) care about more.

Agreed.

[LokisRaider]

20 minutes ago, fairwarging said:

Wouldn't it just look like a regular decomposing polar bear? I think they would be laughed at if their specimen wasn't living. 

Well remember in the first season commander Mormont sends just the arm of the Wight to KL with Thorne? Tyrion keeps pushing off seeing Thorne because he met him at the wall and did not like him and the arm decomposed. But the whole point of only sending the arm was it was still moving/alive by itself.

I know they would have had to hack off a piece of the bear which is easier said then done, but all I'm saying is it is established in universe that the body of the wight may be burned and killed but if a piece is cut off it will still be alive. So there is already precedent that this could work.

[Rubicante]

7 hours ago, Haskelltier said:

 

Well, I have seen things in Game of Thrones which made less sense than this. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the showrunner actually tried something ridiculous like a parley over a captured wight.

The more I think about this, the more it's starting to make sense.

We've all been wondering why the army of the dead just stood there staring at Jon's group, attempting to do nothing to get to the island.  I think the Night's King worried that if he made even one slight movement, then the captured wight would be harmed.  And being a man of the people, this was a risk he wasn't willing to take.  What he truly wanted was to parley with Jon over the captured wight, but he didn't know how to initiate the parley or communicate with Jon.  Hence the awkwardness of the Night's king standing there essentially motionless.  He was completely baffled as to how to peacefully resolve this situation.

However, when the hound tossed that rock and knocked part of that one wight's face off, the Night's King at this point realized there was nothing he could do to save the wight.  Nor could he tolerate such aggression towards one of his own.  He then allowed his army to attack, albeit reluctantly.

[Greywater-Watch]

10 hours ago, hallapino said:

The undead army is close and marching on the wall. Dani saves the group and they fly to Eastwatch instead of Dragonstone. Jon shows up hurt. The urgency of the situation seems enormous. Yet they decide to jump on a ship to sail the 1500 miles to Kings landing unstead of just flying. Huh? Since Jon is the King in the North, has seen the wights and is the one arranging the parley with Cersei why would they even bother sending for Sansa to witness the event.

The dragometer showed 187 golden dragons for the flight to Dragonstone, they had not so much money left. YOU WALK THEN - said Drogon.....

[Greywater-Watch]

7 hours ago, watcher of the night said:

In defense of Jon and co., they did use dragonglass weapons. Jorah had a pair of dragonglass daggers (it is even clear on Preston's video), the Hound dropped the hammer to use a dragonglass dagger and short axe, Tormund had a dragonglass large axe, the redfurs had dragonglass spears, Beric had a flaming sword and Jon had valyriansteel. 

It is funny though that they would have left the most inexperienced fighter (Gendry) to fight with a useless hammer ... and yep, no archers; which is just stupid, who wants to kill white walkers from a safe distance ...

May I remind you that there has been no proof that dragonglass works against wights? Read the book, shortly when Sam meets Benjen Stark behind the wall, he fights un-dead-Small-Paul with a dragonglass dagger with no success. Only fire worked. Ok, you might say, it was Small Paul's chain mail protecting him agianst the dagger, however.....

But in the show, I agree, dragonglass works against wights and White Walkers.

Besides: I only noticed Jorah Mormont using a dragonglass dagger, I have to check again. But I am pretty sure, the axe Tormund used is not a dragonglass axe, dragonGLASS is too brittle for that.

 

[SuperMario]

23 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Dorne was worse, but Winterfell hurts more because it involves charactrers that we (used to) care about more.

Yeah, while Dorne itself was probably worse, Dorne was at least laughable. The inconsistencies with Dorne and bad fighting/bad pussy, etc at least made for bad laughs. Winterfell just sucks the souls out of everyone involved, and it's depressing. Brienne, Arya, Sandra, LF, Jon, Ramsey, Roose, Bran, etc. All are worse off after going to Winterfell.

Winterfell destroys all. There can be only one Highlander.

[Greywater-Watch]

3 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

Ah bless - the director doesn't get the criticism. Perhaps we should enlighten him ...

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

Dracarys!

[Nowy Tends]

10 minutes ago, Rubicante said:

  And being a man of the people, this was a risk he wasn't willing to take.  What he truly wanted was to parley with Jon over the captured wight, but he didn't know how to initiate the parley or communicate with Jon.  Hence the awkwardness of the Night's king standing there essentially motionless.  He was completely baffled as to how to peacefully resolve this situation.

However, when the hound tossed that rock and knocked part of that one wight's face off, the Night's King at this point realized there was nothing he could do to save the wight.  Nor could he tolerate such aggression towards one of his own.  He then allowed his army to attack, albeit reluctantly.

Are you serious? The NK , a "man of the people" , realizes in the middle of a fight that he can't speak the common tongue, and has forgotten to take a white flag?

[Nowy Tends]

10 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

 But I am pretty sure, the axe Tormund used is not a dragonglass axe,

 

I agree, Tormund's axe at the beginning of the episode looks like a copper axe, similar to those of the Thenns, but at at the end of the episode his weapon looks completely different… I have to check.

[JonSansaBranArya]

Not a rant or rave but is it sad, Jon has more chemistry with his "sisters" than Daenerys? 

[I Am TheSongOf IceAndFire]

13 hours ago, darmody said:

Being Tywin's cupbearer and not having the future architect of her brother and mother's murder assassinated when she had multiple opportunities--for no other apparent reason than he was nice to her--doesn't count because...Hey, look behind you! [D&D jump out the window while your back is turned.]

best part of my day so far

 

haven't logged on in quite some time. but after reading so many hilarious takes, its time I contribute my thoughts as well. I'll start by saying I'm hyper-jealous of my friends (some book readers, some not) that have actually enjoyed this episode and season, and somehow believe this is the best season yet with the best single episodes. it makes me sad but also makes me question if perhaps I am just wrong. of the 20 or so people I have discussed with in detail, I am the only one who strongly dislikes basically everything about the show now. I'm unable to separate this new spin on the story from the groundwork laid by the book and previous seasons. someone had a great idea of burning the NK, resurrecting Neds bones and calling the rest of the show The Walking Ned. I second that.

I didnt read the book 20 years ago. I heard about the show around episode 3 season 1 and by episode 4 I was caught up to book 4. I've re-read the books countless times in all sorts of different orders. Seen each episode of the show at least 10 times I'd imagine, with a few exceptions. I'll try to keep this rant episode relevant with some backstory 

Season 1 and book 1 mirrored each other. it was all about setting, mood, dialogue and preparation to build a world so large most casual watchers bailed because it was too complicated. Each one remain my favorite installment of book or show. That prologue sets the bar so high. re-read and watched 10+

Season 2 was a major step back. corny, predictable dialogue when they went off-book-script. Had its great moments as it didnt divert from the book much. the book itself Id rank 4th out of the 5 books so far. re-read and watched 5+

Season 3 got back on track. went off-book some more but I didnt mind as much. Book was fantastic; second best IMO. re-read and watched 10+

Season 4 was bearable. again a step back from the previous season. book was a struggle until I found the guide to read 4 and 5 simultaneously. 5+ 

Season 5, good, book 5 good. 7+

Season 6 enjoyed the action and fast pace and the still book-connected plots. rewatched 5+

Season 7 havent watched any epsiode more than twice. 

my main contentions are these. from the first episode we see the white walkers. shadowy, seemingly rise from the snow, mysterious creepy superpower. the wight(s) are human, mobile but not acrobatic, relentless and intimidating. the next time we see a white walker at crasters(show only from here out) its a similar creature to the one we get a glimpse of in the prologue. however when Sam is stuck behind a rock buried in a field of wights(ugh) we see these new skeleton costume wearing things that screech like a hawk. the undead are moving slow and there are now 5% remaining physical form humans walking with them. sucky, but whatever, the walking dead was more popular then.

fast forward to when bran is about to enter the cave. the wights are now magical skeletons from pirates of the carribean that pop out of the ground and move like really poorly created enemies in a Doom game. these rotted corpses are buried with boots, retro german soldier helmets and longswords, making them look more cartoonish than their movements. and now we've reached a new low, where they simply cut scenes from the walking dead with hordes of zombies groaning, salivating, making common 'hey I'm a zombie' noises. There is no one in these hordes that looks like theyve died in the past 10 years, however once they turn they stop rotting (as sam points out), so shouldnt a good chunk appear to be fresh wildlings or rangers? . 

so there's that. I find this to be a big deal because in it's early stages and budget, they had the resources and commitment to show just enough to make it mysterious and avoid being horribly corny. I guess CGI skeletons are cheaper than clothing for extras. or writers.

its all been touched on. ridiculous time travel or lapse. no real plot, just action piece to action piece. I cant even call the acting bad because it doesnt appear theyve been given any proper script, guideline or story to go off of. Yea emilia could show more concern about her dead dragon, if they gave her more than 1 line about it. 

it does baffle me that many, many people put this together, reviewed it and thought, nailed it! joke about gendry rowing? got it! sansa noting how fans have been complaining about no Ghost? genius! have beric comment about how jon doesnt look like ned because we've already mentioned 100 clues about R+L=J? we're so clever! but what if people realize this deviates from the 6 previous years of character and story building? throw a dragon at them! hey but dont we have a ton of info to include and so many plotholes to fill and line up for some plausible resolution? I've got it: sex scene with a eunuch and someone willing to take their top off! ignoring all norms of this society and the previously story in general so that we dont offend anyone? welcome to 2017 in Westeros! 

I'll leave you with some worrisome thoughts. what if the books turn out just like this? what if george is watching at home thinking 'theyve done it! my vision!" what if this ends like kingdom of the crystal skull with a giant spaceship?

[ramla]

Director speaking on the distance and time issues... Basically saying, "Its a hit show so no worries!"

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-beyond-the-wall-timeline-director-1202534403/

 

[sweetsunray]

Blacknerd's review

http://blacknerdproblems.com/game-of-thrones-recap-beyond-the-wall/