Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just now, tallTale said: Sansa clearly believes she should at least be in charge of the North. Arya sees it. I think Sansa would turn in Jon if she felt in danger or threatened. To be fair, Sansa is currently the only one doing a good job ruling the North, considering Jon's suicide squad, Arya's craziness, and Bran's....branness. But all that she's shown has been loyalty to Jon. She worries about holding the support of the North for JON, she doesn't want Jon to go south because of JON's safety, she defends JON from the lords when they criticize him. She's done nothing to even hint she'd turn on him. Planning in case he doesn't come back is something a wise ruler does. Hence Tyrion talking about Dany naming a successor. But Sansa hasn't done anything to even hint of a betrayal. 2 minutes ago, Green Knight said: I I agree. I'm hoping against hope that this is all some elaborate ruse by Arya to draw LF out somehow. Her character as presented now is just a vile, vicious unlikeable bitch. There aren't many Starks left. It's unfortunate what they've done to her. I hope what we are seeing isn't what we actually get in the end. I agree with this 100% also. I've heard a lot of criticism about Sophie Turner's acting. That she seems emotionless, blah, blah, blah. But not everyone wheats their heart on their sleeve. Some people are naturally restrained and her character is definitely more rational and composed than Arya. I think this adds more realism to the cast. Not everyone is a walking soap opera drama queen. I hope so too but I don't think Arya is politically savvy enough for that. Book!Arya had some type of cunning to her but Show!Arya just seems incredibly straightforward when it comes to her enemies. But yeah, she is a vicious, vile unlikeable bitch right now. Her character has been ruined and even if they changed it....how would they avoid such a heel face turn? And I've seen Sophie in other movies and I have to say she's a brilliant actor. She definitely has had a lot more roles since GoT. She's starred in X-Men Apocalypse and is the main character in the newest X-Men in 2018 (I like X-Men, k). She wouldn't be cast in such movies if she couldn't act. I think her style fits a character who has to wear a mask to hide her thoughts, cloak things in courtesy, and be a politician. I really loved in Season 6 when she accepted Brienne's oath because you can literally see her body language and facial expressions and voice change as she goes from unsure and terrified to sure, strong, and proud. It was great acting. Maisie can act well too! She plays an incredibly different character though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Green Knight said: Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same show when I see posts like this? Pay attention to what she told LF when they were talking. Nothing she said would indicate that at all. If anything she is concerned about keeping the men together for his sake when he gets back. At least that's how I saw it... It's part of the "Sansa is evil and will always turn on her family" thing that's gone on since...forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said: I never thought that I could have said that, but the interaction between Arya and Sansa in this episode was WORST than the worst moments of the sand snakes All moments. You mean all moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Well, we know that Sansa isn't planning on usurping Jon because when she brings her concerns to Littlefinger, she talks about how the lords are so fickle that Jon will lose his army should Sansa no longer be able to influence them; she doesn't seem to care so much about what they think of her, but rather how it will effect her family. We also know she doesn't trust Littlefinger and that she doesn't want Arya dead, since after he suggested having Brienne kill Arya, she instead sent Brienne away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 One thing I DO love is that Sansa, who originally wanted NOTHING more than to escape Winterfell and be somewhere else is being set up to become the Stark in Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Relax everyone. Arya gave Sansa the dagger and dared her to be an active rather than passive participant, and to play the lying game -- just not with her. Her real opponent -- the most formidable liar that there is -- is Littlefinger, obviously. Probably, Littlefinger will try to kill Bran or Arya, and Sansa the she-wolf will intervene, just like her mother and Summer did to save Bran from the assassin in season 1. She's 'Lady' of Winterfell now; and 'Lady' is a wolf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Relax everyone. Arya gave Sansa the dagger and dared her to be an active rather than passive participant, and to play the lying game -- just not with her. Her real opponent -- the most formidable liar that there is -- is Littlefinger, obviously. Probably, Littlefinger will try to kill Bran or Arya, and Sansa the she-wolf will intervene, just like her mother and Summer did to save Bran from the assassin in season 1. She's 'Lady' of Winterfell now; and 'Lady' is a wolf! Sansa is the She-Wolf of Winterfell. I like that---actually. Lady of Winterfell...and her wolf was Lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha 2014 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Pandean said: One thing I DO love is that Sansa, who originally wanted NOTHING more than to escape Winterfell and be somewhere else is being set up to become the Stark in Winterfell. That's a good point. I do hope that Sansa survives the series and can become the Stark in Winterfell. I think she'd make a better Lady of Winterfell than Arya. But I would rather that Arya not continue in psycho-mode and remember that Sansa is part of her pack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensleeves Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Pandean said: One thing I DO love is that Sansa, who originally wanted NOTHING more than to escape Winterfell and be somewhere else is being set up to become the Stark in Winterfell. Winterfell is a running theme in Sansa's chapters. The most obvious example is snow-winterfell, but it's pretty consistent. It's one of the (many) reasons I was so disappointed with her going back to winterfell early in the show: Winterfell is a goal for Sansa and I've seen her arc ending up there for a long time. I don't watch the show any more, but I still get a kick from reading about it on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said: That's a good point. I do hope that Sansa survives the series and can become the Stark in Winterfell. I think she'd make a better Lady of Winterfell than Arya. But I would rather that Arya not continue in psycho-mode and remember that Sansa is part of her pack... I have a strong feeling Sansa is going to survive the series and be the Stark in Winterfell. Arya has no desire to be a Lady, would honestly be terrible at it considering how she seems to scoff a lot of things she finds 'worthless' (to be honest Arya's treatment of feminine things and people who do them can be seen as downright misogynistic at times), and just...doesn't have a head for it. IDK what she'll do should she survive the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, greensleeves said: Winterfell is a running theme in Sansa's chapters. The most obvious example is snow-winterfell, but it's pretty consistent. It's one of the (many) reasons I was so disappointed with her going back to winterfell early in the show: Winterfell is a goal for Sansa and I've seen her arc ending up there for a long time. I don't watch the show any more, but I still get a kick from reading about it on here. Yeah, I love that in the books too. Sansa's arc from and to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Pandean said: Yeah, I love that in the books too. Sansa's arc from and to Winterfell. You do know that Sansa isn't back at Winterfell in the books, right? We don't even know if she'll ever be back in WF considering that WF is still with the Boltons and no one knows if Stannis will take back WF. And then there's the impending zombie apocalypse and WF is the frontline. In the books, Sansa is being set up to become Lady of the Vale not Lady of WF, at least not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 26 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Relax everyone. Arya gave Sansa the dagger and dared her to be an active rather than passive participant, and to play the lying game -- just not with her. Her real opponent -- the most formidable liar that there is -- is Littlefinger, obviously. Probably, Littlefinger will try to kill Bran or Arya, and Sansa the she-wolf will intervene, just like her mother and Summer did to save Bran from the assassin in season 1. She's 'Lady' of Winterfell now; and 'Lady' is a wolf! I was trying to figure what Arya giving the dagger back to Sansa meant. I like your interpretation though I'm not sure D&D is smart enough for something that deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, teej6 said: You do know that Sansa isn't back at Winterfell in the books, right? We don't even know if she'll ever be back in WF considering that WF is still with the Boltons and no one knows if Stannis will take back WF. And then there's the impending zombie apocalypse and WF is the frontline. In the books, Sansa is being set up to become Lady of the Vale not Lady of WF, at least not yet. Yes, I know she's not back in Winterfell in the books. But since she left Winterfell, a large part of her arc has been about going BACK home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoo Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Sansa's in control imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Actually I think both sisters handled it well and that Arya wasn't crazy at all: Sure, it sounded like she was threatening Sansa talking about faces and dresses, but what did she actualy do? She handed the dagger to Sansa. She initiates the last scene starting the lying game, but when asked questions, she answers almost all honestly... but it's also about telling a lie and making it believable (not to Sansa, but LF who's most suredly eavesdropping behind the door). Her actions show the lie in words: she was saying one thing but actually doing the opposite. From Arya's pov this scene to me was her saying "I could kill you here and now and nobody would even know, 'cause I could wear your face and clothes and use your voice, but I'm not gonna do that, so here's the dagger. Now think, sister!" And Sansa was actually lying and dishonest about the letter she sent to Robb. Sure she was naive, a child, and stupid and manipulated by Cersei at the time of that letter, but she was not under durress. She still wanted to marry Joffrey at the time, and believed her father committed treason. And Arya can tell whether someone's lying. The show never had Sansa for once admit that she was a stupid, conceited girl back then who could throw her family under the bus, though she has in the books already. I don't care if she makes excuses to Lyanna Mormont, but to her own sister over calling their father a traitor, after lying about Joffrey's part in the Trident incident... not good. At the end of that conversation, Arya's more empathic about what she could imagine. IMO Arya's on to LF, but she had to relay the information to Sansa without revealing his scheme is blow,: confront Sansa over the letter. and then advize Sansa in an indirect way to choose anger over fear Sansa took LF aside privately over the letter, and goes directly against his advice of using Brienne. So, imo Sansa took LF aside to figure out what the fuck LF's up to. Instead of following LF's advice, Sansa does the exact opposite. Sansa sends Brienne away to prevent LF from using Brienne against either of them, and Brienne's also not the woman to pretend anything. Sansa did make herself look guilty by snooping in Arya's room, presumably to retrieve the letter, and Arya kept that bag in a place to be found easily on purpose imo. Prediction: Sansa got Arya's message of "if I really wanted to kill you, I'd have done it right here and now." Meawhile: LF is wringing his hands in anticipation and will pay for it with his life I still think the whole plotline is shit-filler though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Pandean said: Yes, I know she's not back in Winterfell in the books. But since she left Winterfell, a large part of her arc has been about going BACK home. That's Arya arc in the books till she decides to go to Bravos. From ACOK onwards Sansa wants to leave KL and get away from Cersei and Joffrey not head back to WF cause she thinks WF is first destroyed by Theon and then knows its with the Boltons. So no, she's not trying to get back to WF. She builds WF in the snow, yes but that's her longing for home not trying to get back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredwin Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 What about the insane risks LF keeps taking? Haven't seen anyone mention it. Sansa asks Arya where she got the scroll and gets no response. So Sansa goes and asks LF the same question. He claims ignorance, but what if Arya had just flat old told Sansa what she had seen about the scroll? Sansa would obviously believe where Arya said she got it from. Makes no sense that he would say he didn't know where it was from, because he couldn't possibly know Arya wouldn't tell Sansa right off the bat. His safest response would be something like "It arrived today from a raven with Cersei's seal, and was stolen from the maester's loft." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Actually I think both sisters handled it well and that Arya wasn't crazy at all: Sure, it sounded like she was threatening Sansa talking about faces and dresses, but what did she actualy do? She handed the dagger to Sansa. She initiates the last scene starting the lying game, but when asked questions, she answers almost all honestly... but it's also about telling a lie and making it believable. Her actions show the lie in words: she was saying one thing but actually doing the opposite. From Arya's pov this scene to me was her saying "I could kill you here and now and nobody would even know, 'cause I could wear your face and clothes and use your voice, but I'm not gonna do that, so here's the dagger. Now think, sister!" And Sansa was actually lying and dishonest about the letter she sent to Robb. Sure she was naive, a child, and stupid and manipulated by Cersei at the time of that letter, but she was not under durress. She still wanted to marry Joffrey at the time, and believed her father committed treason. And Arya can tell whether someone's lying. The show never had Sansa for once admit that she was a stupid, conceited girl back then who could throw her family under the bus, though she has in the books already. I don't care if she makes excuses to Lyanna Mormont, but to her own sister over calling their father a traitor, after lying about Joffrey's part in the Trident incident... not good. At the end of that conversation, Arya's more empathic about what she could imagine. IMO Arya's on to LF, but she had to relay the information to Sansa without revealing his scheme is blow,: confront Sansa over the letter. and then advize Sansa in an indirect way to choose anger over fear Sansa took LF aside privately over the letter, and goes directly against his advice of using Brienne. So, imo Sansa took LF aside to figure out what the fuck LF's up to. Sansa sends Brienne away to prevent LF from using Brienne against either of them, and Brienne's also not the woman to pretend anything. Sansa did make herself look guilty by snooping in Arya's room, presumably to retrieve the letter, and Arya kept that bag in a place to be found easily on purpose imo. Prediction: Sansa got Arya's message of "if I really wanted to kill you, I'd have done it right here and now." Meawhile: LF is wringing his hands in anticipation and will pay for it with his life I still think the whole plotline is shit-filler though. Wow! I'll have to rewatch the scene with this in mind. I'm sure most viewers (myself included) didn't get this from the scene. But now that you've said it, it makes perfect sense. But why bring the whole stupid letter into this mix. Arya could question Sansa's loyalty to Jon even without the letter. LF setting up Arya to find the letter made her look stupid. And yes, the whole WF plotline is faux drama and shit-filler as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, teej6 said: That's Arya arc in the books till she decides to go to Bravos. From ACOK onwards Sansa wants to leave KL and get away from Cersei and Joffrey not head back to WF cause she thinks WF is first destroyed by Theon and then knows its with the Boltons. So no, she's not trying to get back to WF. She builds WF in the snow, yes but that's her longing for home not trying to get back there. Whatever you say dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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