Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???

[ramla]

45 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

I thought GRRM has stated that Westeros is roughly the size of South America.  Is that not correct?

If it is then these distance problems are not the issue people make them out to be.

And let's just assume that Jon Snow knows how long it will take a raven to get to Dragonstone and he had full faith that it'd get there and Dany would get back pretty fast.....so.......there ya go.

South America is, 4000 Miles from tip to tip or length.and like 2000mile is width. Its certainly an issue.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

12 minutes ago, ramla said:

LOL Yes i was trying to figure that math out. I think a part of the puzzle is how far did the magnificent 7 march before Gendry began his marathon back. Looking at the map they had to have been out of the haunted forest to be near the mountains. Which raises a great many other questions.

If the lake is as close to the wall that Gendry could run back, then wouldn't the lookouts on top of the wall be able to see the army of the dead, at least a glimpse of them

[The Ghost of Rhaegar]

There HAD to be a better way to do this.  Daeny could have had a vision or something of Jon and then decide she needed to leave.  ANYTHING but more of this teleportation nonsense.

[ramla]

9 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

If the lake is as close to the wall that Gendry could run back, then wouldn't the lookouts on top of the wall be able to see the army of the dead, at least a glimpse of them

Looking at the map i see rivers near the mountains. But thats near castle Black. Maybe my map is off. But thats a looooong way from Eastwatch.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/6/6c/Westeros_-_Byound_the_wall.jpg

[plastic throne]

33 minutes ago, Cron said:

HARRR!!

Great stuff, I loved reading it all!!!

So, what are you suggesting, the possibility that there were women up there (possibly live, possibly undead) that the Magnificent 7 were having sex with on that rock in order to stay alive????

Well, they had that wight to pass around... Plus, she/he was a screamer so that should be helpful, no?

[wolfsbae]

2 hours ago, Cron said:

Mmmmmmmm...but even if you assume much greater periods of time passed, that just raises OTHER problems.

Like...HOW did the Magnificent 7 survive where they were for many days, or even weeks, in sub-zero temperatures with no fires, no shelter, and, presumably, very little food and water?

AND, further, consider the fact that we HAVE information on roughly how much time passed.  And the answer is, "About as much time as it took for the ice to freeze (in sub-zero temperatures) enough to support the wight army."

Even more hilarious - Beric Dondarrion remembers he has a flaming sword AFTER his friend freezes to death. 

[plastic throne]

27 minutes ago, ramla said:

LOL Yes i was trying to figure that math out. I think a part of the puzzle is how far did the magnificent 7 march before Gendry began his marathon back. Looking at the map they had to have been out of the haunted forest to be near the mountains. Which raises a great many other questions.

At the beginning of an episode the part on which the camera zooms is near Hardhome, just outside the haunted forest, in the mountains. The following scene is magnificent 7 in the mountains, thus very suggestive as to where they were exactly. Imo, they were days away from Eastwatch on foot. 

Gendry of the house Bolt, first of his name is just that fast, show has dragons and zombies, apparently we have to deal with it or something.

[ramla]

2 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

At the beginning of an episode the part on which the camera zooms is near Hardhome, just outside the haunted forest, in the mountains. The following scene is magnificent 7 in the mountains, thus very suggestive as to where they were exactly. Imo, they were days away from Eastwatch on foot. 

Gendry of the house Bolt, first of his name is just that fast, show has dragons and zombies, apparently we have to delal with it it something.

If you are correct, is D&D saying the undead army's been marching Directly from Hardhome for 2 seasons and only got to wherever the Mag7 got to it that time? Yet Gendry Bolt can make the same distance in a day? lol

[Ser Gareth]

26 minutes ago, ramla said:

South America is, 4000 Miles from tip to tip or length.and like 2000mile is width. Its certainly an issue.

Remember though that the land beyond the wall accounts for about half of that length.  The length of the Wall is between 250 to 300 miles apparently.

[snow is the man]

12 hours ago, JagLover said:

In the books.

Westeros is actually unrealistically large as a united seven kingdoms when the main mode of transport is horseback and there are allot of suggestions its size has been scaled back on the show. 

My problem with the North of the wall plotline is that they are there at all, to somehow capture a Wight to "convince" someone who has both lost their army and will never be convinced of anything beyond the need to maintain their own power.

In terms of the distances this episode however.

Firstly Gendry's run, they are what 30-40 miles, at most,  out from Eastwatch?, bearing in mind the army of the dead has probably been slowly making its way south of Hardhome towards Eastwatch. For a fit young man with nothing weighing him down, doable in the time frame shown.

Then we have the crucial question how far is it, ON THE SHOW, between Dragonstone and Eastwatch. Most people base their scaling of distances on the walls length of 300 miles and then extrapolating that to other distances, that does make Westeros far too large though IMO. The show has scaled down the size of the Nightswatch, it might then be logical to assume that they have scaled down the length of the wall and thus other distances, never explicitly said, as well? 

 

well old school russia back when they still had czars was humongous  and that was frozen as well as having everything by horseback. Or the mongol empire back in the day. Still I agree that it would be very hard. Also I don't understand why they are trying to convince cersei. Just finish off her army and lay siege to kings landing and wait her out while the dragons and some other soldiers go north to fight the undead.

[Ingelheim]

The teleporting is really annoying. Probably my biggest problem with this season so far.

In my mind, Show Westeros is around 1/4 of the size of Book Westeros. It would be more realistic also, in the books Westeros is as big as Africa, and that's quite stupid considering they are still using horses.

But still, the teleporting this episode was quite stupid. It could have been done better.

[ramla]

3 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Remember though that the land beyond the wall accounts for about half of that length.  The length of the Wall is between 250 to 300 miles apparently.

That could be... however I don't think its been established how far up Westeros goes, or if they count the lands beyond the wall as most of the area hasn't been mapped. Specially the lands of always winter. On maps of Westeros, we only see a small portion of whats beyond the wall. About 600 KM. or 300 miles. The width is said to be 900 Miles for the widest sections of Westeros, and 2000-3000 miles in length. Not sure those are official numbers tho.lol @ Official.  

 

 

[plastic throne]

22 minutes ago, ramla said:

If you are correct, is D&D saying the undead army's been marching Directly from Hardhome for 2 seasons and only got to wherever the Mag7 got to it that time? Yet Gendry Bolt can make the same distance in a day? lol

Well, has to be... Even outside of that zoom thing (it is true though) - they were in the mountains and mountains are pass the haunted forest, not mid in the middle or at the beginning of it. They had to pass it.

Also, it was never suggested that show Westeros is smaller scale than book one. Actually it was confirmed in earlier seasons it is the same (how much time it took for king to get to Winterfell, a month in both, etc).

[Ser Gareth]

4 minutes ago, ramla said:

That could be... however I don't think its been established how far up Westeros goes, or if they count the lands beyond the wall as most of the area hasn't been mapped. Specially the lands of always winter. On maps of Westeros, we only see a small portion of whats beyond the wall. About 600 KM. or 300 miles. The width is said to be 900 Miles for the widest sections of Westeros, and 2000-3000 miles in length. Not sure those are official numbers tho.lol @ Official.  

 

 

I don't think actual dimensions have ever been given and no map to scale has been made available.  GRRM said that beyond the wall was about the size of Greenland apparently.  He also said that the Wall was 100 leagues across, which is about 300 miles.

In the novels its widely accepted now that GRRM screwed up on a lot of his distances and ironically, given the complaints about the show!, how fast some characters were able to transverse vast distances in a short space of time.

[GreenSeeress]

It's not the distances that bother me so much, although Episode 6 was definitely the worst on that score. 

My biggest problem is the resurrection of Viserion: 

• Where did the White Walkers find three lsuper heavy, long ass chains?
• How did the wights, who don't swim, attach the chains to Viserion? 

 

[Raksha 2014]

14 minutes ago, ramla said:

That could be... however I don't think its been established how far up Westeros goes, or if they count the lands beyond the wall as most of the area hasn't been mapped. Specially the lands of always winter. On maps of Westeros, we only see a small portion of whats beyond the wall. About 600 KM. or 300 miles. The width is said to be 900 Miles for the widest sections of Westeros, and 2000-3000 miles in length. Not sure those are official numbers tho.lol @ Official.  

 

 

 

TV-Westeros is about the size of Texas at the largest, maybe more like Great Britain.

[Ingelheim]

The best way to meassure Westeros is to use the Wall, which is said to be 300 miles long, this is, around 470 km.

Which would make Westeros, at least, the size of Africa. That's absolutely crazy if you think about it.

[Ser Gareth]

2 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

The best way to meassure Westeros is to use the Wall, which is said to be 300 miles long, this is, around 470 km.

Which would make Westeros, at least, the size of Africa. That's absolutely crazy if you think about it.

None of the maps are to scale.  In ASOS Jon reflects that Dorne is 10,000 leagues from the Milkwater.  That's 30,000 miles.

[Ser Gareth]

15 minutes ago, GreenSeeress said:

It's not the distances that bother me so much, although Episode 6 was definitely the worst on that score. 

My biggest problem is the resurrection of Viserion: 

• Where did the White Walkers find three lsuper heavy, long ass chains?
• How did the wights, who don't swim, attach the chains to Viserion? 

 

Second one is easy to answer.  The Wights are mindless drones and are controllable I'd imagine.  They can also survive underwater.  So you sacrifice a few to go down there to hook it up.  That's assuming a White Walker didn't do it themselves.

Regarding the Chain?  The Others need to bring the Wall down.  I haven't seen any Ice Spiders and even if they had some I doubt the WW could ride them.  So I have often wondered whether they had siege equipment.

[ramla]

57 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

Well, has to be... Even outside of that zoom thing (it is true though) - they were in the mountains and mountains are pass the haunted forest, not mid in the middle or at the beginning of it. They had to pass it.

Also, it was never suggested that show Westeros is smaller scale than book one. Actually it was confirmed in earlier seasons it is the same (how much time it took for king to get to Winterfell, a month in both, etc).

Hmmm Im wondering if they were near Hardhome or somewhere further. We see a lot of wide expanses and mountainous terrain. Like when they ran into the Polor bear wight. Problem with further is that if its over a 100 or 200 miles away it create more of a distance and time issue. 

50 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I don't think actual dimensions have ever been given and no map to scale has been made available.  GRRM said that beyond the wall was about the size of Greenland apparently.  He also said that the Wall was 100 leagues across, which is about 300 miles.

In the novels its widely accepted now that GRRM screwed up on a lot of his distances and ironically, given the complaints about the show!, how fast some characters were able to transverse vast distances in a short space of time.

I gather the Maps that are available are estimates at best then.

47 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

TV-Westeros is about the size of Texas at the largest, maybe more like Great Britain.

true, and It must have shrunk, cause it took forever to get places on seasons 1 to 3

30 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Second one is easy to answer.  The Wights are mindless drones and are controllable I'd imagine.  They can also survive underwater.  So you sacrifice a few to go down there to hook it up.  That's assuming a White Walker didn't do it themselves.

Regarding the Chain?  The Others need to bring the Wall down.  I haven't seen any Ice Spiders and even if they had some I doubt the WW could ride them.  So I have often wondered whether they had siege equipment.

if they can survive under water (Which i know they can) then why the whole 2 day stand off because the lice cracked? You're right tho. it just shows the inconsistency of it all.

That siege equipment aspect also raises the question of how they were going to attack the wall? They can't get beyond it by normal means. what was the plan? Of course hes (the Nites King) got a Dragon now, but what was he going to do if he didn't luck up?