Joshy

Littlefinger's Game

70 posts in this topic

My thoughts now: LF was killed by Arya already before Sansa and LF discussed the scroll. It was Arya behind LF's face talking about Brienne. I rewatched the scene of LF and Sansa from the pov that LF is Arya.

Their meeting goes well if the purpose for Ayra was to find out whether Sansa is plotting against Jon. "LF" reminds Sansa that they are sisters and Arya wouldn't betray her. Sansa says that Arya would betray her if she thought that Sansa was going to betray Jon.

Then Sansa sends Brienne away. There are two options: either she knows that she doesn't have to worry about Arya anymore or she does this to ensure that Arya won't be the one getting help from Brienne. I believe it's the former option when Arya hands Sansa the dagger.

Bran didn't need the dagger, he knew that Arya would finish LF. Arya gives the dagger to Sansa because she doesn't need it anymore.

We'll probably see in the 7th episode that LF is found dead, killed with a dagger. I'm not sure yet if Sansa will get in trouble for possessing the dagger or will the information of who killed LF stay between the sisters. There's no reason for me to think that Arya had framed Sansa.

Edited by Deminelle

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9 hours ago, Ari27 said:

Do people here still think it's the sisters playing a game on littlefinger?

 

I still do.

I still feel like it makes the most sense in terms of character development and story.  Arya training with the faceless men and Sansa learning the political game must mean something to this story.  This sibling rivalry feels far too cheap when they both should know the stakes are too high.  I still feel like it’s an act put on by the sisters, despite some scenes being pretty convincing of their squabbling.

I do feel like the Brienne stuff is possible proof to this.  Sansa seeks Littlefinger’s advice on what to do about her sister.  Littlefinger advises the use of Brienne although it’s not quite clear in what capacity. Maybe either to plant an idea in Brienne’s mind that Arya is going to try and kill her sister.  Or at the very least, he’s advising to keep Brienne close for protection.  Sansa then sends Brienne away.  I think this is the subtle signal to the audience that something is going on here.  Sansa is no longer Littlefinger’s pawn doing what he says.

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Arya seems to be operating under the assumption that Littlefinger is likely listening in on any and all conversations between the sisters. This whole feud thing is a ruse to get him to tip his hand to Sansa who seems reluctant to admit to herself that Littlefinger is playing her. Sansa thinks that Littlefinger truly does love her. Knows he is a snake, but doesn't think he would play her. Arya is cleverly showing her that he is.

 

Soon he will die. 

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2 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

Soon he will die. 

Unless he was dead already when he last spoke to Sansa. Read my earlier post.

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15 minutes ago, A Time for Starks said:

I still do.

I still feel like it makes the most sense in terms of character development and story.  Arya training with the faceless men and Sansa learning the political game must mean something to this story.  This sibling rivalry feels far too cheap when they both should know the stakes are too high.  I still feel like it’s an act put on by the sisters, despite some scenes being pretty convincing of their squabbling.

I do feel like the Brienne stuff is possible proof to this.  Sansa seeks Littlefinger’s advice on what to do about her sister.  Littlefinger advises the use of Brienne although it’s not quite clear in what capacity. Maybe either to plant an idea in Brienne’s mind that Arya is going to try and kill her sister.  Or at the very least, he’s advising to keep Brienne close for protection.  Sansa then sends Brienne away.  I think this is the subtle signal to the audience that something is going on here.  Sansa is no longer Littlefinger’s pawn doing what he says.

It just doesn't make any sense.

why would they have such weird conversations in front of nobody?

if this is a scheme why are there no precursors for this? It can't just happen out of thin air.

they have to show LF hearing their conversation or receiving information about it from someone, but that doesn't happen.

why would Sansa search Arya's room or be so frightened if their playing LF?

why would Sansa send Brienne away if the enemy is LF?

 

i do understand a theory in which it is Arya who is manipulating Sansa into exposing LF in someway, that makes some sense.

but whatever is happening, I'm sure there is no cooperation between the sisters. They would have shown us otherwise.

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people does still have faith in these kind of plot twist? Arya wearing LF face. Sansa having Arya killid or vice versa, if D&D hava taught us something is that they dont care about such deepness in their script, they definition of mistery consist on hammering little clues of said mistery over and over on screen until there comes the time where a character explains the whole thing because the audience is too thick to get it on its own.

this plot seems pretty straightforward to me, the whole Stark.Vs.Stark thing smells as a Red Flag from a thousand miles away, so it probably is, i dont know if it will be Branhattan the one to put this two at ease or they will realise they are being played by LF, but i can asure you that LF is biting more than he can chew.. i see it playing this way, Arya goes to the godswood to get that Stark vibe his father so much loved (we've seen her visit places that his father stood in on this ep) she will talk to Branhattan about the whole thing, Bran will put their minds at ease, after he manages to get the two sisters on the same side, they will turn to LF... Sansa still hasnt delivered that trailer line ''when winter comes the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives'' i would bet she will say this just before or after turning on LF

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It's not uncommon to have lines be written exclusively for the trailers. I am not sure it will feature on the show for 100%, especially of it is an important line from the series finale.

 

besides, having Sansa reach her inner Stark doesn't go with the character she has developed.

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14 minutes ago, Ari27 said:

It just doesn't make any sense.

why would they have such weird conversations in front of nobody?

if this is a scheme why are there no precursors for this? It can't just happen out of thin air.

they have to show LF hearing their conversation or receiving information about it from someone, but that doesn't happen.

why would Sansa search Arya's room or be so frightened if their playing LF?

why would Sansa send Brienne away if the enemy is LF?

 

i do understand a theory in which it is Arya who is manipulating Sansa into exposing LF in someway, that makes some sense.

but whatever is happening, I'm sure there is no cooperation between the sisters. They would have shown us otherwise.

The precursors for this are that 1. Sansa knows that Littlefinger is a scheming manipulator that will do anything to put himself on the Iron Throne, including hurting others in her family.  She knows that she will need to play him before he plays her family. AND 2. The fact that Sansa wants to keep the Vale army on their side.  If she were to just have Littlefinger killed, the Vale army would not be on the North’s side any longer.  She needs to convince Yohn Royce without a doubt that Littlefinger is a backstabbing schemer or risk losing the Vale.

I also don’t think these conversations are “in front of nobody.”  All conversations (except the conversation in Arya’s room) happened either out in the open or with the door open.  Littlefinger paid the bed maid in that one scene.  And Sansa knows that Littlefinger is probably spying.

“why would Sansa send Brienne away if the enemy is LF?” She knows Arya is a capable killer at this point.  She doesn’t need Brienne to kill LF when Arya can easily do it.  I think the more appropriate question is: Why would Sansa go directly against what Littlefinger advises if she is truly worried about Arya and should keep Brienne around for protection?

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It really makes no sense to me.

"the door is open"? That's nothing. When something is of some importance they make a point to highlight it, if anybody was listening in on them the camera would shift to their direction to show that. Just like they did in the previous episode with Arya and LF.

Sansa knows LF is a schemer yet she used his advice countless of times.

 

Yohn Royce hates LF, I don't think he needs much convincing that his death is a good thing. But let me remind you that Sansa schmed along side LF to bring him into power over the vale.

if any of what you said becomes a real thing in the next episode, I think it is not bery good writing by the people who run the show. And comes completely out of context.

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5 minutes ago, Ari27 said:

Yohn Royce hates LF, I don't think he needs much convincing that his death is a good thing. But let me remind you that Sansa schmed along side LF to bring him into power over the vale.

I remember.  And she is the only one that knows that LF really pushed Lysa out the moon door.  I can see her also mentioning that to Yohn Royce when Littlefinger is outed in whatever scheme he has going on now.

 

8 minutes ago, Ari27 said:

if any of what you said becomes a real thing in the next episode, I think it is not bery good writing by the people who run the show. And comes completely out of context.

I think it's not very good writing if the sister's are genuinely squabbling like this without any other reason behind it.  So we can agree to disagree.

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The sisters squabbling has roots all the way back to their childhood.

they never got along, never loved each other, Sansa never followed that line about the "pack". She was always mor attracted to bigger things then the Starks were/are.

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Fair point on their childhood.  But my thinking is that after all they've been through, and all they've supposedly grown as characters, I would hope that this isn't really how they would interact. 

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4 hours ago, Ari27 said:

This really makes no sense.

why should she care for Arya's protection?

and why should she send away the only person that is sworn only to her?

if anything, she sent her away because she is sworn to protect both both Stark girls, and Sansa don't want her to interfere when she does whatever needs to be done about Arya.

She cares for Arya's protection because Arya is a Stark.  And Sansa understands what LF is trying to do.  

It is certainly bad writing, see my comment about poor mystery writing.  However, they showed me something in Sansa that made me believe that she is making chess moves against LF while her sister is playing checkers, and sending Brienne away is a part of this.  I believe it has to do with taking LF down, not Arya.  I suspect that by next week or early season 8 their efforts will conjoin to take him down.  My opinion has already changed from the girls orchestrating, to Arya doing it alone, to each of them playing a distinct game.

Edited by Illiterati

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4 minutes ago, Joshy said:

Littlefinger is the worst boyfriend that Sansa has ever had.

That's saying a LOT :D

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1 hour ago, Deminelle said:

My thoughts now: LF was killed by Arya already before Sansa and LF discussed the scroll. It was Arya behind LF's face talking about Brienne. I rewatched the scene of LF and Sansa from the pov that LF is Arya. (...)

Nah, too complicated.

I believe that things are just the way they seems.

1 hour ago, A Time for Starks said:

I still do.

I still feel like it makes the most sense in terms of character development and story.  Arya training with the faceless men and Sansa learning the political game must mean something to this story.  This sibling rivalry feels far too cheap when they both should know the stakes are too high.  I still feel like it’s an act put on by the sisters, despite some scenes being pretty convincing of their squabbling. (...)

I would have liked that too, but I don't think it is the way it will go.

I believe that under D&D Arya has just become as angry and dumb as she looks like and Sansa learnt nothing.

We will have Bran telling them the truth (the super-hero that knows everything), Arya that will kill Littlefinger (stupid but powerful assassin super-hero) under the command of Sansa (the beauty saved by the two of them). So we have the triumph of the pack and the death of the depth of Martin's novels.

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22 minutes ago, A Time for Starks said:

Fair point on their childhood.  But my thinking is that after all they've been through, and all they've supposedly grown as characters, I would hope that this isn't really how they would interact. 

They have grown, but it seems that all most all of the characters in the show so far have kept the same core that made them who they are.

i can't really think of anyone who actually changed his way of thinking or behaving. Maybe "the hound" a little.

 

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1 hour ago, Ari27 said:

It just doesn't make any sense.

why would they have such weird conversations in front of nobody?

if this is a scheme why are there no precursors for this? It can't just happen out of thin air.

they have to show LF hearing their conversation or receiving information about it from someone, but that doesn't happen.

why would Sansa search Arya's room or be so frightened if their playing LF?

why would Sansa send Brienne away if the enemy is LF?

 

i do understand a theory in which it is Arya who is manipulating Sansa into exposing LF in someway, that makes some sense.

but whatever is happening, I'm sure there is no cooperation between the sisters. They would have shown us otherwise.

I think what's happening is they are just assuming Littlefinger is watching everything they're doing. Because that's what he does. 

 

Its a false feud.

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If that were true the show would be hinting to it. If the idea is fooling LF into thinking that there is a real feud, why hide the fact that he is listening in on those conversation?

if this theory is based on the fact that the door is open then this is not a strong base.

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11 hours ago, Ari27 said:

I don't really understand Arya's motives. Up until this season she was pretty much Bruce Wayne in "Batman begins", but when she returned home it seemed completely out of context.

she trained and suffered all of this to come home and do nothing?

her main skills are killing people, her "list" is her life, why the hell is she at winterfell?

Remember the scene at the God's Wood with Bran and Sansa... 

Bran : "I saw you at the crossroads"

Arya : You saw me?

Bran : I see quite a lot now

Sansa : Bran has visions.

Bran : I Thought you might go to KL

Arya : So did I

Sansa : Why would you go back there?

Bran : Cercei is on her list

Sansa : Who else is in your list?

Arya : MOST OF THEM ARE DEAD ALREADY... 

Please... Sansa asked her "Who else is on your list" AND She answers : "Most of Them Are already dead" ?????????????

Maybe she is hiding a name from her list... From everyone! Even us... From Sansa, Bran?(Maybe he knows already)...

So what is that name she is hiding? I never heard Littlefinger on her list...

Or Perhaps the show runners are just trying to lead us somewhere and then wait for us to freeze and starve to death... 

 

*************** And Why is Bran talking like a Robot? ************

 

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