snow is the man

So why are the dead such a threat?

97 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

In terms of an army vs army battle the dead that we have now seem weak. In the books and season one when that one attacks mormont it is incredibly hard to kill one which is why it makes them so dangerous. You can't just stab them you have to hack them up and do alot of damage or burn them as jon does because it seems impossible to kill that one after all the damage he did.  Now they can be killed by being stabbed with a knife and they fight with no formation and since they have no sense of self preservation they don't even try to dodge the attacks. Put up a proper shield wall with well trained soldiers using spears from behind it and have archers firing from the back and even if they need to be fire arrows the dead army would still be destroyed. Yes you would still have the white walkers but how many are there? This really annoys me because they seem less dangerous then people now and can be beaten by the northern army by itself. Yes they have massive numbers but a proper army could beat them. And since they have twenty thousand men in the north...well the dead are not nearly as big of a threat as we thought. Just annoys me to have it done that way. And yes now they have an ice dragon but that wasn't what we feared for so long. Anyone else disappointed by how they went this route.

 

 

Edited by snow is the man

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I seriously doubt a proper army could beat the Dead. The Dead huge advantage is the Night Walkers can still raise Wights during the battle. If it is small forces of very well trained heroes that is better than a whole army. The more men you throw at the dead the more you will strengthen them. Besides losing a dragon which is a big blow.

At Hardholme they lost thousands of men and killed hardly any wights. But in the last episode. They lost Thoros and 5 unnamed extras. And Thoros was burnt so he didnt get added to the army of the dead. So a smaller group took out hundreds of wights plus the dragon took out thousands. Maybe the Night King army is in the 100,000 range. The Dragons and heroes combined probably took out about 20,000.

Plus the gang learnt if you kill a white walker all the Wights raised by it die as well. Meaning that most of the Wights are raised by the Night King but a few are raised by the other White Walkers. 

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If the dead get past the Wall, the army should swell up to at least 2 million people by sweeping the lands north of and around Winterfell. That's going to make them a lot more dangerous. The Night King can afford to waste thousands of troops falling into a lake once he's got millions behind them.

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I think part of it has to do with being fell and raised back into the army--ever increasing ranks. Maybe the War could be won without anything else, but it would still include a bunch of deaths.

Other than that, the White Walkers are a lot different from the Wights, so they probably present a greater challenge. 

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The hard thing is the White Walkers, if you kill them a lot of wights also do. But maybe 95% of Wights are connected to the Night King. The White Walkers and Night King are also shielded behind all the Wights. I think this is the reason all the North was invited to camp at Winterfell.

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The Other problem is that they can only utilise  a limited number of fighting men whereas the army of the dead can add Women, Children, old people and even animals to their ranks.

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Because they don't have to convince people to fight for them. 

No recruitment necessary.

Just kill.

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Wasn't Jorah's dagger a dragonglass kinda thing? Thought it looked like that. But I could be wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Wasn't Jorah's dagger a dragonglass kinda thing? Thought it looked like that. But I could be wrong.

It looked like it.

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Well, now they've got a dragon. (Thanks team Targaryen!) 

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I think it's pretty obvious:  because they have the numbers and all they need to increase their numbers further is for the Night King to reanimate those who have been killed.  They don't need to be skilled warriors, they don't need to rest, they don't need to eat.

A huge problem I have with what D&D have done in the show, is how they have changed the Wights.  In the books the Wights were clumsy, slow moving zombies who could only be stopped with fire, so you could imagine the living standing a chance against them.  With D&D changing them into fast moving killing machines who can even crawl on walls and ceilings, it simply isn't believable when I see the living escaping from them in episodes like Hardhome, The Door or Beyond the Wall.  Add to that the way they have introduced a Night King with amazing powers into the story, any scene featuring the living vs the dead, is pretty ridiculous to me.  And, as if all that wasn't enough, now they have a dragon and (as was suggested when Jon killed the White Walker and the Wights tumbled down), the White Walkers can reanimate the dead too, not just the Night King.

The showrunners have gone way too far with this for my liking.  I only keep watching because I enjoy the characters and most of the stories south of the wall.

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What intrigues me is what do they want? I've concluded they don't want anything, they remain an instrument of the Children of the forest. Just as there are factions of men there are factions within COF. Perhaps the big reveal of next season. It kind of makes sense, the COF have had enough of the humans destroying Westeros and have decided to renew hostilities to take back their land. If the COF are behind it, it also allows the story to be quickly resolved by Bran - a new pact at the Gods Eye - so the the rest of the season will be dealing with Cersei.

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40 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

What intrigues me is what do they want?

This is one of the big questions that neither show nor book has addressed, much less answered, because the Walkers, at the very least, are clearly intelligent, individual creatures with an agenda of their own, whatever that turns out to be.

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52 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

What intrigues me is what do they want?

At this point I see this as key to 'saving' the story. Let's hope they manage to nail this and make it interesting and compelling.

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They do not want to attack Westeros. They just want humans to stay the fuck of their side of the Wall. Jon is prejudiced and wrong about their intentions.

At least, that is the only logical way to explain why they did not invade yet when we could see in this episode they are a Gendry´s run away from the wall. 

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Because the showrunners throw logic out the window whenever it suits them. In Hardhomethe Army of the Dead is well nigh unstoppable because the story demands it. In this last episode, naturally, the AoD suddenly becomes vulnerable to 7 main characters because plot armor is stronger than internal logic, and the writers don't give a shit about creating a coherent story anymore. GRRM's novels can't prop the show up anymore so they are "free" to revert to typical Hollywood cliches -the very thing that the novels made a point of deconstructing. The story and characters were first and the machinations of power took precedence over battles and spectacle-exactly the opposite of what the show is doing now. The story, the plot, the characters, the dialogue, and the internal logic all exist simply to serve the next "big action scene", which is all the producers want. The success of the show early on was based on it avoiding cliches like the books, but now, it's devolved into the standard Lord of the Rings template 

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2 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

What intrigues me is what do they want? 

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

This is one of the big questions that neither show nor book has addressed, much less answered, because the Walkers, at the very least, are clearly intelligent, individual creatures with an agenda of their own, whatever that turns out to be.

 

1 hour ago, Anarres said:

At this point I see this as key to 'saving' the story. Let's hope they manage to nail this and make it interesting and compelling.

 

Wait, I thought this was somewhat answered in the show and GRRM history book.  The COF made the White walkers/wights to combat the first men/Andals (I don't remember which one) and then they realized what a mistake that was and sided with the men which led to the pact and the long night.  So, aren't the WW just doing what they were created for, killing men?

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5 minutes ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

Wait, I thought this was somewhat answered in the show and GRRM history book.  The COF made the White walkers/wights to combat the first men/Andals (I don't remember which one) and then they realized what a mistake that was and sided with the men which led to the pact and the long night.  So, aren't the WW just doing what they were created for, killing men?

I don't remember that from the show, but maybe. The history book is neither show nor book though.

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Well, new strategy: make a moat. A really big moat. With fire on the other side. 

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Yes, they become easier to kill. That's bad. I remember how hard it was when they attacked Commander Mormont in the first season. Only two of them. It seemed a real challenge. Now they are like the sacks of bones. And White Walkers also don't seem as invincible as before.

But what do they want? The children of forest made them to kill people. So they are doing it. Their mission is to kill them all. Maybe there is a way to remove that Childrens' dagger out of WW heart and make him human again. I don't know. I suppose they have some great metal constructions to get over the wall. Because those chains were impressive. :rolleyes:

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