Cat the Most selfish Women in all the seven Kingdoms

[fiatlux]

3 hours ago, Makk said:

There is much more than that. This is not a simplistic issue, as I said earlier in the thread, Ned is partly to blame because he refused to say anything. But of course he is doing so because he is sticking to his promise.

However your example of when she said it should have been you that fell is not even the most extreme case imo, what was worse was her trying to manipulate things in the background by poisoning Robb's and Ned's feelings towards him.

In the above passage you can see her motivation. She wants Jon gone, she wants the possible threat, no matter how unlikely, to her children removed.

And of course she was poisoning Robb's mind as he was growing up

Luckily Robb rose above it, but she still tried to stop Robb naming Jon his heir spurting out some pretty offensive insults
 

We can see from Jons thoughts it was not just the one time when she was cold or even cruel. It did effect Jon and possibly drove him to join the nightswatch just to get away. This was just after your example but it shows that she has been cold to him in the past.

And more thoughts of how she has been in the past

 

 

I think it is pretty clear that Catelyn had constantly been at best cold and distant towards Jon. It's entirely possible that she has been cruel as well, we have only seen a tiny portion of their relationship on page so there were many other times she may have been as nasty. And of course she was manipulative behind his back.

But as I say, I don't hate Catelyn, flaws are in many ways what make characters interesting. I think there is a huge amount to this relationship and that is why I think she will be the one to resurrect him.

 

the best attitude, the best protection.

Catelyn also regularly blames herself for this or that reaction she's had, think about Cersei (I would never compare the two) and her inner thoughts and how she never honestly questions her decisions.

BTW, putting Sansa or Arya in the list of the most selfish WOMEN in ASOIAF ... we're talking about women, not teens or pre-teens, plus compare Cersei's pampered life with Arya's experiences...

 

OK, I don't like Cersei (but I love reading her POVs)

[SeanF]

10 hours ago, Luddagain said:

Catelyn was foolish, and selfish and overly ambitious.

 

I am tired of hearing all this Ned and bastards stuff. There were LOTS of bastards in great houses - Joy Hill, Freys a plenty and of course Dorne.

1. Sure MOSTLY young bastards live with their mothers for obvious reasons, but when the mother is also dead this is not a practical reality.

2. Being raised in a castle is not the same as being placed in a bedroom next door and having to have regular daily contact with a bastard child - to wipe their bum and wash their clothes. She would not have needed to spend more than 1/2 an hour in Jon's company. Cat was expected just to be kind towards Jon ie not cruel. to smile if he did something cute, to not be too overt about her preference for her own kids and to make him feel welcome. Sort of like we all parents do when a visitor comes to stay - might be a friend of your kid or a relative etc. Now most of us despise the parent who favours their own child overtly in such situations - we generally assume the mother spoils her own kid and will raise a super brat.

3. There is a NORTHERN or at least stark tradition of bastards being raised at Winterfell eg Lonnel Snow and Brandon Snow. Cat would have been told this

4. There is another factor strongly hinted at but perhaps not known to Cat, but it somehow seems essential for Northern bastards to be acknowledged by their fathers very early. It may somehow be linked to the weirwoods and the Others. Note Craster and his abhorrence of bastards - Incest OK but not bastards. I am sure this is a factor that explains Ned'd insistence on rearing Jon himself.

5. No matter what way you look at it Cat was cruel and mean to Jon. Sorry but to treat a CHILD in that way is unforgivable. It literature we often hear the horrid tales of Stepmothers/guardians mistreating their step children and we hate the step mother. Cinderella, Snow white,and Jane Eyre all spring to mind. Stop and think a second. Just imagine that your partner had a bastard child aged perhaps seven. The child may have been conceived as a short term fling before your marriage or during perhaps a quarrel or even just a drunken night out. The mother was dead. Perhaps your husband arranges for the child to be reared by a maternal grandmother but she is too old or is sick for a while. The child comes to stay. It is Xmas and you are handing out gifts to the children. Do you ignore the bastard child or give him a gift way inferior to the one your son of the same age receives? Do you prevent him joining the family around the Xmas tree? Do you encourage your eldest daughter to be rude to him? Do you give him smaller portions of food?  I certainly hope NOT, but that is what Cat does. There is NO moral justification for blaming the child. This was the land where ALL marriages were arranged. There were very few love matches. As it happens I have an ex sister in law in a somewhat similar situation. I used to be really fond of her but she like Cat apparently ignored and was cold towards her partners very young child. Her behaviour was unforgivable. No ifs no buts. Just mean and cruel.

6. Finally I am betting that Cat hated Jon because deep in her heart she knows that Robb is also a bastard in that he is Brandon's son. 

If I were to tell my wife one day that I'd fathered a child outside marriage, and told her to raise it as her own, and refused to tell her who the mother was, I think I can guess what her reaction would be.

[mormont]

7 hours ago, Luddagain said:

No Cat is not the most selfish woman at all and by no means is she truly bad (Lady Stonehart is pretty name nasty), however not is she a truly good character. at times she is wise but often she is stupid.

One can say that last of Tyrion, Jon, Ned, Robb, Brienne, and a whole host of others. One can say much worse about other characters. Being wise at times and stupid at others is pretty much how human beings are. There never was a person who was always wise and never stupid.

7 hours ago, Luddagain said:

The way to judge whether someone is selfish or not is to weigh up acts of kindness versus those of unkindness and then reach a consclusion.

1. Towards Jon she was unquestionably cruel (Ned's words)

2. She was a little cruel towards arya

3. she was a little cruel towards Rickon - sure under great stress but still!

At no time do we see Cat being cruel to either Arya or Rickon. The 'a little' qualifier suggests that you know you're reaching there. Cat just isn't a cruel person, though she is capable of occasional cruelty at times of great stress - again, this is pretty normal for all human beings.

Just off the top of my head, Tyrion, Stannis, and Robert are cruel more often than Cat is.

7 hours ago, Luddagain said:

i think we can sort of see where the girls get some aspects of their personality-  Arya's vengefullness is pure Cat, Sansa's obsession with being a Lady and her self centredness is also pretty much from Cat.

The former, perhaps. The latter, not so much. The aspects of 'being a lady' that concern Sansa are about appearances: these are the very aspects about which Cat is noted to be unconcerned. She travels without a maid, and doesn't give much thought to clothes or hairstyles or fancy feasts or singers. Even the privileges of rank are a tool she uses, not an end in themselves. You can say that Cat is concerned with 'being a lady' inasmuch as she is certainly conscious of her duties as a noblewoman towards the common folk, but that doesn't chime with 'self-centredness'. Sansa does pick that up, though.

[devilish]

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Uh.... she keeps Sansa hostage (kidnapping) while Jaime is a captive, so... effectively the same thing.

And Ned isn't "completely surrounded" by Lannisters.  If he understood the true power of his office, Cersei would have been at his mercy, not the other way around, and the Lannisters only escape annihilation by the skin of their teeth and some nice authorial intrusion.

 

Sansa was already in KL when her daddy decided to commit 'treason'. She's treated with respect (ok Joffrey torments her but Cersei can't go against her king) and as nobility. For example when LF suggest to marry Sansa, Cersei refuse since she believes that the girl deserve better.

Ned is surrounded by Lannisters. Decades of Lannister presence made it so. The king's doctor, cupbearer and no 1 Bodyguard is Lannister. He shares his bed with a Lannister too and Lannisters + their dogs can assault noblemen and get away with it. Oaf might hold the crown but the king is Tywin Lannister. 

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Well Ned never tells anyone about Jon's origins, so I guess everyone is dumb and would throw anyone under a bridge?  I mean, seriously.  He doesn't tell her because he knows that (a) that is how rumors begin, and (b) Cat's first loyalty is to her children.  Knowing Jon's parentage means she now has to decide whether to risk the wrath of Robert coming North and pulling down Winterfell, and her kids with it, in an attempt to wipe out "dragonspawn".

Well Howland Reed knows and I presume that Ned decided his companions to the tower of joy based on trust not on their skill with the sword. Yet he never trusts his wife. How come?

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What in the world makes you think this?  He tries to kiss Sansa in the Eyrie (in a weird transference of lust) despite her not showing the least bit interest in him, which we know for a fact through her POV.  Plus, Littlefinger IS stupid.  He monologues all his schemes to practically everyone he meets; he's smart but vain and wants everyone to know how smart he is, which is a bad combination.

He duels Brandon (which is suicidal) specifically because he drunkenly remembers sleeping with Cat, when it was Lysa.  Furthermore, we have Cat's recollections at his attempt to stick his tongue down her throat when they played kissing games as kids, and how she tried to stop it.  The most evidence we have of Cat "leading him on" is dancing with him a bunch of times at a feast.  My guess is you danced with a girl at prom who shot you down, and now you think that's the height of sexual taunting, huh?

 

LF is stupid then....seriously? Do you read the books?

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And Rickard did better?  His daughter might have run off and broken an important betrothal (I think more likely kidnapped, but it's up in the air).  His eldest son and heir went galloping off shouting for the Crown Prince to die, which is real smart (justified, but stupid).  Brynden didn't "get away" with anything - he was effectively exiled.

Rickard left a unified region, a daughter everyone fell head on heels for and 3 sons who can swing the sword without looking silly. Hoster left a region which can't defend itself, a disgrunted bannerman who hold the key between the North and the Riverlands, two crazy girls and Edmure

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Um, the Frey's most certainly don't get away with anything.  You are looking at this from the perspective of a modern day person.  A feudal vassal would view Hoster punishing Walder Frey for his late arrival as a gross injustice.  As far as LF goes - I'd say Lysa has sex with him, rather than the other way around.  In modern parlance, she rapes him.

And when that "decent" general walks into the Riverlands, Hoster is old, bedridden and cancerous.  Hardly his fault at that point.

 

What was Walder's punishment then? What was Hoster's plans to avoid this happening ever again? How come some ward is able to try and spoil the bethronment of Hoster's daughter to the Warden of the North's son, have sex with his other daughter and challenge the warden of the North's son and heir to a duel and get away with it? Seriously how do you think Tywin would work that out? (If lets say a Frey tries to kiss Cersei in front of his bannermen, then he challenge Robert to a duel then he have sex with Kevan's daughter soon afterward?)

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Um, no.  This is wrong.  Not debatable, not misguided, but wrong.  Cersei wields no power.  She wields a HUGE amount of influence, since Robert won't fight her on anything, but that isn't the same as political power.  That is what makes any Queen or courtier powerful, is having the ear of the King.  It's why nobles in our world used to fight each other to do jobs for the King that would be disgusting or demeaning to modern eyes; because proximity to the crown yields influence.  The Lannisters are highly influential because Cersei has managed to get them into important and respected positions, such as squires for Robert.

The Lannisters are powerful. Robert is surrounded by them. They control his wine, they sleep in his bed, they are his no 1 bodyguard and if he falls sick than the maester who cures him is in their payroll. The Lannisters also hold Robert's purse and had even made sure that his children are theirs and not his.

Jamie can hurt Ned and get away with it, Clegane can nearly kill Loras Tyrell and get away with it. When Cersei decided it was time for Robert to die then he died. So yes, Cersei is powerful.

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Seriously?  What books did you read.  Cat arrests Tyrion after having a trusted source tell her that the murder weapon belonged to Tyrion.  A suspicion which is perfectly reasonable in context, having had her sister warn her against Lannister treachery previously.  That both of these pieces of evidence were planted is no reflection on Cat's intelligence or insight.  She arrests Tyrion after discussing all this with Ned, her husband and also the most powerful man in the kingdom, for all intents and purposes.  And she doesn't take him to be executed, she takes him to trial - a trial in which she conducts herself far more honorably than the Lannisters, actually letting Tyrion go when he wins his trial by combat (compared to the Lannisters executing Ned after he strikes his "plea bargain").

According to the books Cat tried to avoid Tyrion and only arrested him when he notices her. Also were did Ned told her to take Tyrion to the Vale instead to KL to be judged by the king? What does the Vale has to do with some alleged crime done in the North by the Warden of the West son who was captured in the Riverlands?

Lysa had told Catelyn that the Lannisters arranged for Jon Arryn's murder.

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And what in the world is informing you that the "heir" to Casterly Rock should be judged by a king?  You just made that up out of whole cloth.  When Tyrion is tried in SoS, the king doesn't sit in judgment, so I think we can all safely agree that you have no clue what you're talking about in half of these instances, and are actually emphatically, undeniably wrong in the rest.

 

 

Who could possibly settle a dispute between two wardens? That's quite difficult to answer. Wait what happened when Joffrey got hurt by the warden of the North's direwolf? Who settled that? Was it Lysa? Was it Ned? Or was it the KING?

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 I get it.  The pretty popular girls at your high school aren't interested in you romantically, so you are taking that out on an anonymous internet forum and criticizing fictional women who act the way those girls do - they're nice, but don't want you.  Just like Catelyn was nice, but was sexually or romantically interested in Petyr.  But your own Nice Guy Syndrome doesn't translate onto what GRRM has written, so maybe find another outlet for it.

Ah going personal here on an internet forum regarding an argument on fantasy. That's mature. So let me share this to you. If you compare my wife to a GOT character, well she'll probably be Cersei Lannister (ie rich and old family, a Tywinesque father). She's younger and more beautiful then show Cersei (although older to show Myrcella whom she resemble very much when we first met) but unlike Cersei she's got brains (a doctorate and not the psychology mambo jumbo thing)

@cpg2016

[Moonmoon]

7 hours ago, Makk said:

There is much more than that. This is not a simplistic issue, as I said earlier in the thread, Ned is partly to blame because he refused to say anything. But of course he is doing so because he is sticking to his promise.

However your example of when she said it should have been you that fell is not even the most extreme case imo, what was worse was her trying to manipulate things in the background by poisoning Robb's and Ned's feelings towards him.

In the above passage you can see her motivation. She wants Jon gone, she wants the possible threat, no matter how unlikely, to her children removed.

And of course she was poisoning Robb's mind as he was growing up

Luckily Robb rose above it, but she still tried to stop Robb naming Jon his heir spurting out some pretty offensive insults
 

We can see from Jons thoughts it was not just the one time when she was cold or even cruel. It did effect Jon and possibly drove him to join the nightswatch just to get away. This was just after your example but it shows that she has been cold to him in the past.

And more thoughts of how she has been in the past

 

 

I think it is pretty clear that Catelyn had constantly been at best cold and distant towards Jon. It's entirely possible that she has been cruel as well, we have only seen a tiny portion of their relationship on page so there were many other times she may have been as nasty. And of course she was manipulative behind his back.

But as I say, I don't hate Catelyn, flaws are in many ways what make characters interesting. I think there is a huge amount to this relationship and that is why I think she will be the one to resurrect him.

 

"we have only seen a tiny portion of their relationship on page so there were many other times she may have been as nasty"

GRRM said she never was cruel to him other than that one rare occasion with bran so that isn't true no matter how much you want it to be. I was only talking about her treatment of him i.e. how she acted towards him on daily basis. Whatever thoughts she had about him or whatever she said to ned doesn't make her abusive or cruel to jon as she never said it in front of him so he won't know.

You can't force someone love another person, right? Cat is totally justified to feel what she felt towards jon. She does not have any obligation to love her husband's bastard. Ned knew how she felt but still raised him in the same house. Why does she have to take care of him? Btw when cat and ned were arguing about jon, ned didn't know that jon told benjen about his plans to join night's watch. Ned accepted it once he realised its jon's own choice. 

Btw if cat actually treated jon so badly she won't have let her kids play or interact with him. Sansa referred to him as half-brother because that's what her society taught her. Robb, arya and bran were all close to jon. Why didn't cat stop them? Or she could have told jon to stay away from her kids. She DIDN'T. And if you say that it was because she was afraid of ned then she wouldn't be cruel to jon for the same reasons, right?

Jon didn't join night's watch because of cat. What would be his future if he stayed in winterfell? He wouldn't inherit anything. He couldn't be a knight. You forget that he was as romantic as sansa who believed night's watch men were these great men like his uncle benjen. He joined night's watch on his own terms. He was already thinking about joining it before ned was even offered the hand's position. He talked to benjen about joining it during dinner when the royal family arrived to winterfell. 

Jon never said anything like that about cat either. If cat really was cruel to him offscreen, atleast he would have thought about it at some point but he didn't. If you can't accept the author's statement about his character then I don't know what to say to you.

[devilish]

9 minutes ago, Moonmoon said:

"we have only seen a tiny portion of their relationship on page so there were many other times she may have been as nasty"

GRRM said she never was cruel to him other than that one rare occasion with bran so that isn't true no matter how much you want it to be. I was only talking about her treatment of him i.e. how she acted towards him on daily basis. Whatever thoughts she had about him or whatever she said to ned doesn't make her abusive or cruel to jon as she never said it in front of him so he won't know.

You can't force someone love another person, right? Cat is totally justified to feel what she felt towards jon. She does not have any obligation to love her husband's bastard. Ned knew how she felt but still raised him in the same house. Why does she have to take care of him? Btw when cat and ned were arguing about jon, ned didn't know that jon told benjen about his plans to join night's watch. Ned accepted it once he realised its jon's own choice. 

Btw if cat actually treated jon so badly she won't have let her kids play or interact with him. Sansa referred to him as half-brother because that's what her society taught her. Robb, arya and bran were all close to jon. Why didn't cat stop them? Or she could have told jon to stay away from her kids. She DIDN'T. And if you say that it was because she was afraid of ned then she wouldn't be cruel to jon for the same reasons, right?

Jon didn't join night's watch because of cat. What would be his future if he stayed in winterfell? He wouldn't inherit anything. He couldn't be a knight. You forget that he was as romantic as sansa who believed night's watch men were these great men like his uncle benjen. He joined night's watch on his own terms. He was already thinking about joining it before ned was even offered the hand's position. He talked to benjen about joining it during dinner when the royal family arrived to winterfell. 

Jon never said anything like that about cat either. If cat really was cruel to him offscreen, atleast he would have thought about it at some point but he didn't. If you can't accept the author's statement about his character then I don't know what to say to you.

When Ned moved South, Cat does her very best to kick out Jon out of Winterfell ie his home. That does sound cruel to me. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

8 minutes ago, devilish said:

When Ned moved South, Cat does her very best to kick out Jon out of Winterfell ie his home. That does sound cruel to me. 

IIRC, Jon left for the Night's Watch before or at the same time as Ned left to go south.

[Pikachu101]

46 minutes ago, devilish said:

When Ned moved South, Cat does her very best to kick out Jon out of Winterfell ie his home. That does sound cruel to me. 

The only one who was being cruel was Ned who didn't even have a plan for his bastard son, Jon can't spend the rest of his life in Robb's shadow yet Ned didn't seem to care about that let alone his own wife's feelings. 

If Jon ever felt inadequate, unhappy, or embarrassed by his bastard status then that's Ned's fault because he's Jon's parent, not Cat.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

but unlike Cersei she's got brains (a doctorate and not the psychology mambo jumbo thing)

A doctorate in psychology is mumbo jumbo? I always thought people with doctorates in psychology were probably smart. How dumb does that make me? 

[devilish]

18 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

A doctorate in psychology is mumbo jumbo? I always thought people with doctorates in psychology were probably smart. How dumb does that make me? 

They are smart but they can't prescribe medicine or decide upon treatment (psychiatrists can)

[devilish]

30 minutes ago, Pikachu101 said:

The only one who was being cruel was Ned who didn't even have a plan for his bastard son, Jon can't spend the rest of his life in Robb's shadow yet Ned didn't seem to care about that let alone his own wife's feelings. 

If Jon ever felt inadequate, unhappy, or embarrassed by his bastard status then that's Ned's fault because he's Jon's parent, not Cat.

Ned made a mess out of everything. However you have to agree that its cruel to kick a boy out of his home. 

[devilish]

1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

IIRC, Jon left for the Night's Watch before or at the same time as Ned left to go south.

A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 37, The Prince of Winterfell.

"When Lord Eddard Stark decides to accept the position as Hand of the King at King's Landing, his wife Catelyn Tully refuses to allow Jon to remain at Winterfell. As Eddard feels he cannot take Jon south with him, Luwin suggests the Night's Watch for Jon, and Eddard agrees to make the arrangements"

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow#cite_note-Ragot6.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-2

 

[Moonmoon]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

When Ned moved South, Cat does her very best to kick out Jon out of Winterfell ie his home. That does sound cruel to me. 

When did that happen? Did we read the same book? Jon left at the same time as ned if not before. Cat didn't even talk to jon other than that famous bran scene. She argued with ned about keeping jon in winterfell but it was resolved when benjen told him that jon was already planning to join night's watch. How about read those parts again instead of making crap up?

[Jordan La Cabra]

 

1 minute ago, devilish said:

A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 37, The Prince of Winterfell.

"When Lord Eddard Stark decides to accept the position as Hand of the King at King's Landing, his wife Catelyn Tully refuses to allow Jon to remain at Winterfell. As Eddard feels he cannot take Jon south with him, Luwin suggests the Night's Watch for Jon, and Eddard agrees to make the arrangements"

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow#cite_note-Ragot6.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-2

 

Yes, that is correct, but it doesn't fit with your original comment:

1 hour ago, devilish said:

When Ned moved South, Cat does her very best to kick out Jon out of Winterfell ie his home. That does sound cruel to me. 

Ned handed moved South. He and Catelyn were in their bedchambers in Winterfell discussing it. Nor did she kick him out. She didn't want him to stay at Winterfell, but by no means did she throw him out. Conveniently Jon wanted to join the Night's Watch and Maester Luwin put forth this suggestion.

I am no Catelyn Stark fan, but she didn't kick Jon out of Winterfell. 

[devilish]

5 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

 

Yes, that is correct, but it doesn't fit with your original comment:

Ned handed moved South. He and Catelyn were in their bedchambers in Winterfell discussing it. Nor did she kick him out. She didn't want him to stay at Winterfell, but by no means did she throw him out. Conveniently Jon wanted to join the Night's Watch and Maester Luwin put forth this suggestion.

I am no Catelyn Stark fan, but she didn't kick Jon out of Winterfell. 

Well she didn't want him to stay at Winterfell and Ned couldn't take him South with him. That does sound being kicked out or how AWOIF puts it 'she refused to allow Jon to remain at Winterfell'

[devilish]

10 minutes ago, Moonmoon said:

When did that happen? Did we read the same book? Jon left at the same time as ned if not before. Cat didn't even talk to jon other than that famous bran scene. She argued with ned about keeping jon in winterfell but it was resolved when benjen told him that jon was already planning to join night's watch. How about read those parts again instead of making crap up?

 Dance with Dragons, Chapter 37, The Prince of Winterfell.

"When Lord Eddard Stark decides to accept the position as Hand of the King at King's Landing, his wife Catelyn Tully refuses to allow Jon to remain at Winterfell. As Eddard feels he cannot take Jon south with him, Luwin suggests the Night's Watch for Jon, and Eddard agrees to make the arrangements"

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow#cite_note-Ragot6.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-2

[Jordan La Cabra]

Just now, devilish said:

Well she didn't want him to stay at Winterfell and Ned couldn't take him South with him. That does sound being kicked out

He didn't go to the Night's Watch against his will. He asked Benjen Stark to take him with him the Wall before the conversation between Ned and Catelyn even took place.

[devilish]

4 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

He didn't go to the Night's Watch against his will. He asked Benjen Stark to take him with him the Wall before the conversation between Ned and Catelyn even took place.

Here's the exact writing

"He and Robb are close," Ned said. "I had hoped …"

"He cannot stay here," Catelyn said, cutting him off. "He is your son, not mine. I will not have him." It was hard, she knew, but no less the truth. Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell.

The look Ned gave her was anguished. "You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard's name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned."

Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband's eyes. "They say your friend Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself."

"And none of them has ever been seen at court!" Ned blazed. "The Lannister woman has seen to that. How can you be so damnably cruel, Catelyn? He is only a boy. He—"

Maybe you and @Moonmoon read the book more then Ned did. Or maybe you love Cat more then Ned did.....

[Moonmoon]

2 minutes ago, devilish said:

 Dance with Dragons, Chapter 37, The Prince of Winterfell.

"When Lord Eddard Stark decides to accept the position as Hand of the King at King's Landing, his wife Catelyn Tully refuses to allow Jon to remain at Winterfell. As Eddard feels he cannot take Jon south with him, Luwin suggests the Night's Watch for Jon, and Eddard agrees to make the arrangements"

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow#cite_note-Ragot6.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D-2

Lol how about you actually read the book instead of a summary? Like I said cat and ned were arguing about jon's stay at winterfell but that was resolved when ned learned jon himself wanted to join night's watch. Remember the dinner scene with the royal family at winterfell? Jon tells his uncle benjen that he wants to join night's watch and this happened way before ned was offered the hand's role. Jon wasn't kicked out of winterfell. He left himself. That summary sounds like cat kicked him out herself and jon was sent to wall against his will. The situation was totally different in the books. 

Even if cat had accepted jon, he would still be bitter about his bastard status. No motherly love would have prevented that. Because robb loved him as a brother but a part of jon was still jealous and bitter towards him.

[Jordan La Cabra]

1 minute ago, devilish said:

Here's the exact writing

"He and Robb are close," Ned said. "I had hoped …"

"He cannot stay here," Catelyn said, cutting him off. "He is your son, not mine. I will not have him." It was hard, she knew, but no less the truth. Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell.

The look Ned gave her was anguished. "You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard's name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned."

Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband's eyes. "They say your friend Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself."

"And none of them has ever been seen at court!" Ned blazed. "The Lannister woman has seen to that. How can you be so damnably cruel, Catelyn? He is only a boy. He—"

Maybe you and @Moonmoon read the book more then Ned did......

What she wants isn't right. It is cruel that she would want Jon to have to leave the only home he has ever known. But she alone is not the reason he joined the Night's Watch. Jon knew he would never inherit anything from Ned at Winterfell. Jon thought the Night's Watch was still a noble organisation. He came up with the idea of joining it himself, making a name for himself there. That was nothing to do with Catelyn.