the plot with Brienne...

[Battle Kitten]

Littlefinger is trying to divide and conquer. He attempted to put the idea that Arya is dangerous to Sansa and may attack her, so having Brienne close will means Sansa is protected. We know Sansa can't fight on her own. It was implied Brienne would fight for her.

Sansa has learned and does not trust Littlefinger so she does the opposite of what he wants and sends Brienne away. I'm assuming this to protect Brienne from inadvertently being manipulated into a situation neither Brienne nor Arya would survive. This makes the most sense because Littlefinger wants Sansa separated as he thinks she is easily manipulated, and will be easily manipulated into making a claim to the North in which he benefits.

I thought this was pretty clear? 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

LF should be exposed somehow before being killed. Otherwise his death doesn't make sense at all. Of all characters in Winterfell, Sansa and Arya know more about LF than most of others. Sansa knows that he killed Lysa and Arya saw him with Tywin (or with Roose? I confuse the show and the books sometimes). They just need to put 2 and 2 together. This is where Bran should step in. 

[Illiterati]

26 minutes ago, Battle Kitten said:

Littlefinger is trying to divide and conquer. He attempted to put the idea that Arya is dangerous to Sansa and may attack her, so having Brienne close will means Sansa is protected. We know Sansa can't fight on her own. It was implied Brienne would fight for her.

Sansa has learned and does not trust Littlefinger so she does the opposite of what he wants and sends Brienne away. I'm assuming this to protect Brienne from inadvertently being manipulated into a situation neither Brienne nor Arya would survive. This makes the most sense because Littlefinger wants Sansa separated as he thinks she is easily manipulated, and will be easily manipulated into making a claim to the North in which he benefits.

I thought this was pretty clear? 

Clear to me is that she is clearing the coast for LF to convince Arya to kill Sansa.  This is the con they are playing.

1. No Brienne to interfere since Sansa sent her away.  Sansa knows that Brienne is loyal to a fault and won't waiver from her vow even if it made sense to waiver from her vow.  It doesn't make sense to send her away to to prevent her from being manipulated into killing Arya, she knows she would never kill Arya.  She sent her away to give LF the notion that Arya can take out Sansa without retribution.

2. Arya decrying Sansa's betrayal of family - gives her motive in LF's eyes.

3.  Arya explicitly explaining that she could use Sansa's face to be Sansa - gives her a means to get away with it.

4. Remember Arya's soliloquy about her father and rules.  These two girls playing the master player breaks the rules entirely.  That soliloquy was aimed at the audience, not Sansa.  The "with your help" was intended to throw us off the trail a little and also loop back to #2 and reinforce that she has the motivation that could allow her to be weaponized against Arya.

Unfortunately for Littlefinger, he is grossly underestimating both sisters at the moment. As are many audience members, based on comments in these forums.

[Illiterati]

13 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

LF should be exposed somehow before being killed. Otherwise his death doesn't make sense at all. Of all characters in Winterfell, Sansa and Arya know more about LF than most of others. Sansa knows that he killed Lysa and Arya saw him with Tywin (or with Roose? I confuse the show and the books sometimes). They just need to put 2 and 2 together. This is where Bran should step in. 

Sansa also knows that LF initiated the conversation about her writing the raven that would sell out her family.  If it wasn't his idea exactly, he was at least in on the execution of it.

Tywin, btw.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

6 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

Sansa also knows that LF initiated the conversation about her writing the raven that would sell out her family.  If it wasn't his idea exactly, he was at least in on the execution of it.

Tywin, btw.

Good point! Sansa also knows that he is somehow involved in Joffrey's death, at least that he was aware of the plot.

[Battle Kitten]

Exactly. People don't want give Sansa much credit because she isn't the most likeable character but she's maneuvering against LF.  He is overconfident and that's going to be his downfall. It's just what are they going to expose about him to the Knights of the Vale, etc. to make his demise sellable. I have a feeling some proof of his workings against the North will be revealed, hopefully through Luwin's records, and not just by Bran because most people will need tangible proof and not the ramblings of a kid.

[Illiterati]

1 minute ago, Battle Kitten said:

Exactly. People don't want give Sansa much credit because she isn't the most likeable character but she's maneuvering against LF.  He is overconfident and that's going to be his downfall. It's just what are they going to expose about him to the Knights of the Vale, etc. to make his demise sellable. I have a feeling some proof of his workings against the North will be revealed, hopefully through Luwin's records, and not just by Bran because most people will need tangible proof and not the ramblings of a kid.

There is another possibility, and that is the same suggestion she offered up to LF--that she could wear Arya's face, could happen with LF himself.  He gets cornered and killed, after the scheme has played out on account of Starks aren't Sands, and Arya uses LFs face to keep Robyn in tow and for other delicious plots.

That is wishful thinking, though.  I think the fact that they are entrapping LF leads to a public execution because they need to justify it before the lords and ladies of the North.  This would render his face useless to Arya.

[tinyskeeveuk]

For me, it's not that people don't want to give Sansa credit, it's that we want her to manoeuvre against LF--we're expecting it--but the writers are doing an injustice to whatever scheming she might be doing... It's just not clear or manipulative enough

[tinyskeeveuk]

3 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

There is another possibility, and that is the same suggestion she offered up to LF--that she could wear Arya's face, could happen with LF himself.  He gets cornered and killed, after the scheme has played out on account of Starks aren't Sands, and Arya uses LFs face to keep Robyn in tow and for other delicious plots.

That is wishful thinking, though.  I think the fact that they are entrapping LF leads to a public execution because they need to justify it before the lords and ladies of the North.  This would render his face useless to Arya.

Why do people assume that someone has to be killed to use their face? We saw Jaqen use Arya's face in one of the earlier series and she wasn't dead. There has to be more magic at play...

[lakin1013]

One observation is so far, we have 4 pages of smart people trying to make sense of something on the show that made no sense at all.  

LF told Sansa to keep Brienne close so Sansa promptly does the exact opposite. Based on the tortured theorizing the show is forcing on us, we could consider that later, that same day, Brienne and Sansa went for a walk and had a picnic lunch and then Sansa told Brienne to not really go, but to tell nobody :-)

I will argue that watching Sansa get LF's advice really bothered me, like he was a trusted person to her.  So, why would she immediately perform an act that makes her, Sansa, less safe by removing Brienne?  That is why I tend to side with the plotting sisters even though it does not make any sense to me because otherwise Sansa looks misguided, Arya looks threatening, and Brienne looks gone. 

[Illiterati]

9 minutes ago, tinyskeeveuk said:

Why do people assume that someone has to be killed to use their face? We saw Jaqen use Arya's face in one of the earlier series and she wasn't dead. There has to be more magic at play...

I interpreted that as a glamor.  It's a given that Arya doesn't possess all Jaqen's abilities.

[tinyskeeveuk]

2 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I interpreted that as a glamor.  It's a given that Arya doesn't possess all Jaqen's abilities.

Well, she must be able to do some glamoring given that she only has Walder's face and yet her hands were just as old... I didn't see Walder-Gloves in her bag.

[Illiterati]

6 minutes ago, tinyskeeveuk said:

Well, she must be able to do some glamoring given that she only has Walder's face and yet her hands were just as old... I didn't see Walder-Gloves in her bag.

It has already been well established that wearing the face gives you all the attributes and mannerisms of that person.  Height, weight, voice, old wrinkly hands.  I've even read that the faceless man even takes on many of the memories of the prior owner of the face.

[Pandean]

I believe that it's something like this:

 

LF was suggesting that if Arya did anything against Sansa Brienne would take care of it, i.e. kill Arya

 

Sansa agreed with that fact to LF's face, thus making LF believe she fell for his words

 

Then Sansa sends Brienne away, A. so that there is no way of her doing what LF says and B. so it throws Littlefinger off. 

I don't think Sansa sent Brienne away so she can kill Arya; I can't see Sansa contemplating even killing her sister and I don't think she's that type of person.

[Nerevanin]

5 hours ago, mattnj81 said:

Gaining control of the Vale was my original thought and I think this is what Sansa will do in the books, but without Robin there in the show it seems more of a stretch. I do hope if it turns out this way there is a legitimate purpose and not just "because reasons."

One way or another, it might very likely lead to LF losing the Vale in the books. In the spoiler chapter from TWOW...

Spoiler

Sansa suggests to Sweetrobin to have his own kingsguard (lordsguard?). This is the first thing that weakens LF's grip around the Vale. Although the SR in the show likes his uncle Petyr, the book SR is afraid of him. When this little lord has his own sworn guards, LF can't do anything he wants with him anymore. Sansa clearly didn't do it with this in mind, she sees LF as her saviour and hero, but I think that the winged guards will be part of LF's downfall (at least in the Vale).

 

1 hour ago, Illiterati said:

It has already been well established that wearing the face gives you all the attributes and mannerisms of that person.  Height, weight, voice, old wrinkly hands.  I've even read that the faceless man even takes on many of the memories of the prior owner of the face.

From the books we know that when Arya wears her first face, she sees the last seconds of the person's life. It's unknown if there is a way to extract more memories. But it is important to say that the face only gives you the looks, not the character, you have to work on it so that your disguise is believable. In the books Arya wears a few faces and  each of her identities acts in a very different way (which is imo part of her training).

[Illiterati]

7 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

One way or another, it might very likely lead to LF losing the Vale in the books. In the spoiler chapter from TWOW...

  Reveal hidden contents

Sansa suggests to Sweetrobin to have his own kingsguard (lordsguard?). This is the first thing that weakens LF's grip around the Vale. Although the SR in the show likes his uncle Petyr, the book SR is afraid of him. When this little lord has his own sworn guards, LF can't do anything he wants with him anymore. Sansa clearly didn't do it with this in mind, she sees LF as her saviour and hero, but I think that the winged guards will be part of LF's downfall (at least in the Vale).

 

From the books we know that when Arya wears her first face, she sees the last seconds of the person's life. It's unknown if there is a way to extract more memories. But it is important to say that the face only gives you the looks, not the character, you have to work on it so that your disguise is believable. In the books Arya wears a few faces and  each of her identities acts in a very different way (which is imo part of her training).

An interesting take, because she would have no idea what Frey's character is besides what she saw in the brief time up to his demise.  Of course, time is a very fickle thing in HBOGoT......she could have been there studying him for weeks, a thought belied by the fact that he recognized her as a new face at his end.

[Nerevanin]

19 hours ago, Illiterati said:

An interesting take, because she would have no idea what Frey's character is besides what she saw in the brief time up to his demise.  Of course, time is a very fickle thing in HBOGoT......she could have been there studying him for weeks, a thought belied by the fact that he recognized her as a new face at his end.

That's right, I haven't thought about it. And I didn't realize that Arya hasn't seen him before (probably). One explanation would be that Ned, Robert and co. stopped in Twins when they went to KL in season 1 and Arya saw Walder. That sounds very probably imo. And then years later she disguised as the servant. She could spend a few days in Twins before the murder, Walder probably wouldn't pay much attention to a girl who sweeps the floor.