Jordan La Cabra Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Gaz0680 said: I think we all understand why dragons would get preference over direwolves in the CGI budget, both from their critical importance in the story (for Danys arc and also just being the Westeros nuclear bomb in terms of power) and also the coolness factor and the epic possibilities with them on screen. However, I do have to question why a CGI wight polar bear got preference over direwolves. They have no more coolness factor and are definitely far below the direwolves in storytelling potential. Maybe they felt it was needed for them to fight a wight animal in that episode. Once the wight bear was killed, it wasn't coming back. In reality, the bear wasn't there for very long. Bringing Ghost back they would have likely have him there for longer than the wight bear was, which would end up costing them more for CGI. Or perhaps the writers really liked the similar scene in The Revenant and wanted to recreate it. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said: However, I do have to question why a CGI wight polar bear got preference over direwolves. They have no more coolness factor and are definitely far below the direwolves in storytelling potential. The Wight-bear was there to hammer home the point that animals can be "wighted", setting up the wight-dragon later in the episode. I knew for a fact that a dragon would die and be raised when that bear appeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoren Luck Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Mikkel said: The Wight-bear was there to hammer home the point that animals can be "wighted", setting up the wight-dragon later in the episode. I knew for a fact that a dragon would die and be raised when that bear appeared. They literally had to pull the ice spear used to kill Viserion from the saddle of a 'wighted' horse. It is already well established that animals can be brought back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter prince Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said: I think we all understand why dragons would get preference over direwolves in the CGI budget, both from their critical importance in the story (for Danys arc and also just being the Westeros nuclear bomb in terms of power) and also the coolness factor and the epic possibilities with them on screen. However, I do have to question why a CGI wight polar bear got preference over direwolves. They have no more coolness factor and are definitely far below the direwolves in storytelling potential. Id have much rather seen Ghost accompanying Jon and fighting with him against the wights (and surviving) and the bond between them than a stupid and pointless polar bear. The bear was just a cool way to show us that we can have wight animals... instead of wight viserion being the first wight murder monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said: I believe yes, in the books Sansa is also a warg but her abilities never manifested because her direwolf died so early. In the showverse, Bran is the only warg amongst the Starks/Jon. I feel the showrunners deliberately had just Bran as the sole warg: 1. To ensure the main characters all had distinct unique talents to make it simpler for audience to comprehend 2. Minimise the characters with freakish magical abilities as sometimes casual audiences can find those harder to relate to and connect with as they can come across as superheroes instead of real human beings. I accept these reasons, but then it makes killing off Summer so early seem even more stupid. That was the one direwolf they should have kept alive and killed Ghost and Nymeria instead. I know book Sansa has a connection, literary-wise, to birds. I always wondered if she would end up warging into a bird or something. Who knows? I do think the same, it's less confusing to the casual viewer and also makes each Stark sibling have something Jon is the commander, Arya is the assassin, Bran is the mage, Sansa is the politician But killing off Summer was dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Yoren Luck said: It is already well established that animals can be brought back. I know it wasn't the first time we saw that concept, but they wanted to remind everyone and bring it front-and-center in the same episode in which it happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz0680 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Pandean said: But killing off Summer was dumb. Precisely. This a prime example of what frustrates me most with D&D - they dont even make sensible story choices for the story they are trying to tell. Ghost and Nymeria should both have been killed before Summer in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Well if he continues to be in his kennel then Ghost is pretty safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Gaz0680 said: Precisely. This a prime example of what frustrates me most with D&D - they dont even make sensible story choices for the story they are trying to tell. Ghost and Nymeria should both have been killed before Summer in the show. You criticize D&D's bad storytelling choices and then suggest that they should have made different bad story choices. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz0680 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said: You criticize D&D's bad storytelling choices and then suggest that they should have made different bad story choices. ? What bad story choices did I suggest?? All I did was make the point that if they were going to kill direwolves, then Ghost and Nymeria should have died before Summer. That would not be a bad story choice within the realm of the show at all. In show, Arya and Jon are not wargs, which greatly lessens their connection and consequently the importance of Nymeria and Ghost in their storylines respectively. Ghost and Nymeria can pretty safely be killed off without impacting Jon or Arya's show arcs in any meaningful way. Show Bran IS a warg. His connection to Summer was incredibly strong. In the show, with the story they are telling, if there was one direwolf that needed to survive and be with their master on the journey to the end point, it was Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said: What bad story choices did I suggest?? The killing of Ghost and Nymeria, although I admit I assumed you did so because you were one of the Stark haters that are always responding with a "kill Jon/Sansa/Arya" or a "kill all the direwolves". I jumped to conclusions. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz0680 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said: The killing of Ghost and Nymeria, although I admit I assumed you did so because you were one of the Stark haters that are always responding with a "kill Jon/Sansa/Arya" or a "kill all the direwolves". I jumped to conclusions. My apologies. Apology accepted. All good. I love the Starks. They are my favourite family in Westeros by far, although I respect other houses and individuals too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 So no one thinks that D&D and all of their putting epic moments over actual storytelling wouldn't be chomping at the bit to show a scene of Jon flying on Rhaegal's back low to the ground with Ghost running right beside into battle? That would be a pretty epic moment in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 I've just got this terrible feeling these bastard ass show writers are gonna kill him off next season in typical D&D fashion him saving Jon and then being killed. Assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reisendame Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Gaz0680 said: What bad story choices did I suggest?? All I did was make the point that if they were going to kill direwolves, then Ghost and Nymeria should have died before Summer. That would not be a bad story choice within the realm of the show at all. In show, Arya and Jon are not wargs, which greatly lessens their connection and consequently the importance of Nymeria and Ghost in their storylines respectively. Ghost and Nymeria can pretty safely be killed off without impacting Jon or Arya's show arcs in any meaningful way. Show Bran IS a warg. His connection to Summer was incredibly strong. In the show, with the story they are telling, if there was one direwolf that needed to survive and be with their master on the journey to the end point, it was Summer. I was thinking the same as you, but I wonder: did they feel they *had* to kill off Summer in order to create the 3ER Bran we're now seeing? His strong connection to Summer could have been what kept him "human," in a way. Now he's apparently devoid of emotional connections. I've always wondered about any hidden significance of Sansa losing Lady so early on in the story. How does this contribute to who she becomes? I think these questions can be better answered if/ when the books are finished.... who knows what D&D are thinking, aside from CGI cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic throne Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 9 hours ago, Gaz0680 said: I think we all understand why dragons would get preference over direwolves in the CGI budget, both from their critical importance in the story (for Danys arc and also just being the Westeros nuclear bomb in terms of power) and also the coolness factor and the epic possibilities with them on screen. However, I do have to question why a CGI wight polar bear got preference over direwolves. They have no more coolness factor and are definitely far below the direwolves in storytelling potential. Id have much rather seen Ghost accompanying Jon and fighting with him against the wights (and surviving) and the bond between them than a stupid and pointless polar bear. Imo, direwolves are just as important to the story as dragons are. Mammoths, giants to lesser extent but still,... Pretty sad they were cut. North (free folk) and Starks in general are the prime victims of budget cuts. But to answer OPs question, it is really obvious what will happen. Ghost will give his life for Jon at some point. Probably killed by the NK as someone here already suggested, saving Jon from certain death #31 in process. It is also the cheapest way to make audience sympathize, cry (killing dogs). No way they will let go of this oportunity. After all, the show has become Hollywood in its purest form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic throne Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Reisendame said: I've always wondered about any hidden significance of Sansa losing Lady so early on in the story. How does this contribute to who she becomes? IMO (especially in show) she suffered the worst fate out of all Stark children. I think of a direwolf as a guardian angel, not just as a immediate defence (Bran's assasin) but on some magical, intuitive level. Example, Greywind did sense danger with Freys and warned Robb about it. Him not listening to it resulted in RD. Even Arya, who lost hers it helped her mentally, through her warging dreams, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said: So no one thinks that D&D and all of their putting epic moments over actual storytelling wouldn't be chomping at the bit to show a scene of Jon flying on Rhaegal's back low to the ground with Ghost running right beside into battle? That would be a pretty epic moment in my opinion. They may well do that—instead of lots of little Ghost moments that propel the story forward, they're saving him (and their budget) up for one big badass scene that will be the only time he ever appears again. (And if it's badass enough, I may not complain too much… And as plastic throne says, he'll probably die in that scene to give us the feels. But as long as he's actually fighting in the battle, rather than appearing out of nowhere for a 3-second scene to sacrifice himself to save Jon, I can live with that, too.) 7 hours ago, Gaz0680 said: In show, Arya and Jon are not wargs, which greatly lessens their connection and consequently the importance of Nymeria and Ghost in their storylines respectively. I think the Nymeria scene was actually somewhat important to Arya's arc. Arya has just decided she's going to go home instead of continuing with her list. She meets Nymeria and sees that, unlike her, Nymeria has built a new pack. And that confirms that her only option is to go home and rebuild her old pack. I was pleasantly surprised that they found a use for Nymeria despite having cut Arya's wolf dreams. (Also, I assume it was a relatively cheap scene as direwolf CGI scenes go, since Nymeria is just staring at her, while most Ghost or Summer scenes would involve running and fighting.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz0680 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 The Nymeria scene was purely a set up. Its pretty obvious at some point in Season 8, Arya and her siblings will be in trouble and Nymeria and wolf pack will come to rescue. The entire pack including Nymeria will die in the process but the Starks will survive (at least that attack anyway). Ghost similarly will come to rescue Jon and die in process. As plastic throne said, the show is just pure Hollywood now. It has no substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 13 hours ago, Winter prince said: The bear was just a cool way to show us that we can have wight animals... instead of wight viserion being the first wight murder monster. And a nod to the Fist of the First Men from ASOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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