U.S. Politics: A Request to Address the Cleft on the Left

[GAROVORKIN]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

He chose not to run against Trump because his data showed that this would likely cause Trump to win, if he went independent. 

If he went Democrat, however, that's another story entirely. 

 

Bloomberg  is a very smart guy ,he understand and economics and business,  I think would be a very  good choice for president. Id vote for him a heartbeat.

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Honestly, I think I'd like Bloomberg to go Democrat. 

So would I, but there's no way in hell he'd ever get the nod.

[GAROVORKIN]

2 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

So would I, but there's no way in hell he'd ever get the nod.

Why not ? He's  exactly what they need.  He doesn't the police baggage problems the current democrat are saddled with. 

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Why not ? He's  exactly what they need.  He doesn't the police baggage problems the current democrat are saddled with. 

Well for one thing, he considers himself a fiscal conservative (though not nearly to the extent of the Republican base). Sure he is mildly fiscally conservative, but that aint gonna fly in the face of the Democratic establishment.

[Zorral]

50 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Coincidentally this link was also posted on my Facebook today:

http://www.businessinsider.com/white-nationalists-genetic-ancestry-tests-dont-like-results-2017-8

The idea of either white supremacists or insurance companies using this data to discriminate is worrisome.

However, I think their accuracy is also overblown. I am planning to take the Helix test (the one promoted by National Geographic) next month because the biology professor at my university says the way it presents results are the most scientific. The exact percentage pie charts you see advertised on TV all the time are questionable.

I just found out last night that my sister had this done several years ago. Her results came out 14% "East Asian" -- which, given that we are 100% descended from people who were living in what's now the USA in 1776, seems rather unlikely.

OTOH, maybe it's a good thing that so many people learn through their own efforts that what they've fondly believed about themselves and their family heritage isn't true, particularly if they a bigots / racists of any kind? 

Really and truly there is no such thing as 'pure' blood or 'race', sexual behavior of both men and women being what it is. There really isn't. We're human  and we mate as our hormones dictate (or as slave masters, fathers, invading rapists, etc., depended when and where one lives and whether or not one is the gender that gets pregnant).

Also -- 100% in favor of a younger person running for the Dem POTUS nom.  But NOT Cuomo!  His baggage in NYC, though not at the level that the orange's was and remains, is still negative.  NYers know him and he's not a good guy.   He's not a Roosevelt, or even a Grover Cleveland, that's for sure!  And not Bloomberg either -- the last think the White House needs is another wonk.  Wonk is not political.  What the Dems need is a policy, an agenda, something to stand on.  They got nothin'.

BTW -- Glad DanteGabriel remains!

[GAROVORKIN]

4 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Well for one thing, he considers himself a fiscal conservative (though not nearly to the extent of the Republican base). Sure he is mildly fiscally conservative, but that aint gonna fly in the face of the Democratic establishment.

Please don't kill me for saying this but one of the perceptions of the Democrats is  they love to spend lots of money which is  irksome to a fair number of voters.  Having a leader with a bit fiscal conservatism.  might be helpful the Democratic Party come election time. It's just a thought. 

[Red Tiger]

59 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Please don't kill me for saying this but one of the perceptions of the Democrats they love to spend lots of money which is  irksome to a fair number. of voters having a leader with a bit fiscal conservatism.  might be helpful the Democratic Party come election time. It's just a thought. 

I have no issues with Bloomberg's fiscal policy. What im saying is that the democratic establishment DOES.

[Zorral]

7 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

I have no issues with Bloomberg's fiscal policy. What im saying is that the democratic establishment DOES.

Bloomberg also played a large role as mayor in selling off NYC to the Russians and other obscenely wealthy kleptogarchs and reducing the housing stock enormously.  Notice, he moved to London to advise the English how to do the same thing.  He doesn't even live here.  And he's too old.

[Red Tiger]

59 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Bloomberg also played a large role as mayor in selling off NYC to the Russians and other obscenely wealthy kleptogarchs and reducing the housing stock enormously.  Notice, he moved to London to advise the English how to do the same thing.  He doesn't even live here.  And he's too old.

The sad thing is that many of the more corporate-oriented democrats have done similar things. But again, it doesn't matter as Bloomberg will never get the nod.

Joe Kennedy III is really young, but maybe this is the time for a person to break the record for youngest-elected president, while beating the oldest-elected one. He's been fierce in standing up for progressive values and he is a good speaker, though not a great one.

Harris has the background, both in terms of personal history and legal history, plus the diversity angle. She is a half-black, half-Indian former attorney general who graduated from Howard University and represents California.

[GAROVORKIN]

12 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

The sad thing is that many of the more corporate-oriented democrats have done similar things. But again, it doesn't matter as Bloomberg will never get the nod.

Joe Kennedy III is really young, but maybe this is the time for a person to break the record for youngest-elected president, while beating the oldest-elected one. He's been fierce in standing up for progressive values and he is a good speaker, though not a great one.

Harris has the background, both in terms of personal history and legal history, plus the diversity angle. She is a half-black, half-Indian former attorney general who graduated from Howard University and represents California.

Joe Kennedy III  By 2020 will be seasoned enough in politics for people to seriously consider him for the Presidency. 

[OldGimletEye]

34 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

 

Bloomberg  is a very smart guy ,he understand and economics and business,  I think would be a very  good choice for president. Id vote for him a heartbeat.

Personally, I'm not willing to give businessmen much deference on economic policy. If somebody like Bloomberg wants to make a statement about policy, he'd better be able to pin it on fairly well understood models and data and not "secret acquired knowledge" or personal business experience.

Bernie Marcus argued for tax cuts for people like himself, arguing for a big economic boom. HIs entire argument wasn't based on publicly available data. But on his secret knowledge that he allegedly acquired from doing business. Bernie Marcus was full of shit.

[GAROVORKIN]

9 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Personally, I'm not willing to give businessmen much deference on economic policy. If somebody like Bloomberg wants to make a statement about policy, he'd better be able to pin it on fairly well understood models and data and not "secret acquired knowledge" or personal business experience.

Bernie Marcus argued for tax cuts for people like himself, arguing for a big economic boom. HIs entire argument wasn't based on publicly available data. But on his secret knowledge that he allegedly acquired from doing business. Bernie Marcus was full of shit.

If not someone like Bloomberg, who would you like to see as Democratic Frontrunner for 2020? 

[DanteGabriel]

After George Bush the Lesser and Herr Drumpf, let's take a break from the "businessman President" shtick. The government does not run like a corporation.

[OldGimletEye]

50 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Please don't kill me for saying this but one of the perceptions of the Democrats is  they love to spend lots of money which is  irksome to a fair number of voters.  Having a leader with a bit fiscal conservatism.  might be helpful the Democratic Party come election time. It's just a thought. 

Well voters unfortunately like to think a lot of things that aren't necessarily true:
1. They think the Republican Party is the "Party of Business" and is better at running the economy. That's not true. And there isn't any data to support that. In fact, it seems Democratic Presidents do better.
2. Lot's of people think cause Reagen cut taxes that led to mornin' in America. Not really true though. The recession and recovery had to do with monetary policy.
3. And while it's true that Democrats prefer more government spending (on programs though that are often very popular), what is not true, is that Democrats are the big deficit creators of Republican imaginations. Barack Obama was the first Democratic President, since Harry Truman where the debt/GDP ratio did not go down, though the defecits under Obama were particularly necessary given the zero lower bound condition we were in. The Republicans had at least two, off the top of my head, where that was not true. Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush*

*Though in hindsight it probably would have been better if Bush had created bigger deficits and spent on the money on useful stuff and not on bullshit like the Iraq War and tax cuts for the rich. Had Bush created bigger useful deficits it's possible  that Mortage Backed Securities, which were perceived as safe assets, would have been crowded out by government Treasuries, possibly leading to us not having them blowing up and tanking the economy (remember conservative sorts of people that when the  very inelastic safe asset supply curve shifts to the left and it can't clear it creates disequilibrium on other markets). Plus, you know, bringing us nearer full employment back then.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

After George Bush the Lesser and Herr Drumpf, let's take a break from the "businessman President" shtick. The government does not run like a corporation.

Yeah, I can get behind that line of thinking. I guess the biggest push back to that would be that Bloomberg actually is a successful businessman.

[maarsen]

1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

After George Bush the Lesser and Herr Drumpf, let's take a break from the "businessman President" shtick. The government does not run like a corporation.

Good point. We had that crap up here in Canada too for the last few years. Turns out a former drama teacher has a better grasp of running a country than the 'businessman' that came before him. 

[OldGimletEye]

12 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

If not someone like Bloomberg, who would you like to see as Democratic Frontrunner for 2020? 

Well, I'm not necessarily opposed to Bloomberg running at this juncture.

But if the sum of his arguments are "trust me I'm a businessman", then I'm not buying it. Which should be for obvious reasons at this juncture.

As far as who else in 2020? I don't have any solid ideas right now.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

Im sure the South Park guys have something for that.

But seriously for a moment. I wouldn't be surprised if Cuomo campaigned for the nod. Im hoping for Kamala Harris or Joe Kennedy III, but Cuomo should not be overlooked.

Kennedy is simply too young. He won't turn 40 until a month before the election. Although Trump would be an ideal person for a younger candidate to run against.

Another name to keep in mind is Representative Tim Ryan. He checks off almost all the boxes for what Democrats should be looking for if you want to play it relatively safe. 

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Kennedy is simply too young. He won't turn 40 until a month before the election. Although Trump would be an ideal person for a younger candidate to run against.

Another name to keep in mind is Representative Tim Ryan. He checks off almost all the boxes for what Democrats should be looking for if you want to play it relatively safe. 

IIm glad to see you changed your mind and agreed with my argument in the space of 3 sentences.

 

1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

Joe Kennedy III is really young, but maybe this is the time for a person to break the record for youngest-elected president, while beating the oldest-elected one. He's been fierce in standing up for progressive values and he is a good speaker, though not a great one.

 

Somehow I don't think playing it safe is gonna be a good strategy come campaign time. The Democrats have simply lost too much and they need vigor and charisma.

[James Arryn]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

NOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOO

SUPPORT ANYONE WHO CAN AND WILL BEAT TRUMP

I DON"T CARE IF THEY'RE 95 AND HAVE A COLOSTOMY BAG

VOTE FOR THE COLOSTOMY BAG

Right off the bat you lose the green vote. Trump's at least biodegradable (mostly).