A old poster returns... are any book readers still avoiding the show entirely?

[The Sleeper]

I stopped watching after season 4. It just pissed me off from some point on.

Ironically, I got into Ice and Fire after watching season 1 and couldn't wait to find out what happened. I can't watch it without having a running commentary in the back of my mind. To be fair, it is probably a pretty decent show on its own merits. But it is certainly not a good adaptation anymore. Apart from some inexplicable changes, ignoring internal consistency and going for shock factor to a much greater degree, the show never quite managed to capture the varying tones of the original.

[Jordan La Cabra]

6 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

 But it is certainly not a good adaptation anymore.

It isn't an adaptation anymore. The showrunners are no longer working off book material; they are working off an outline of GRRM's, which may well change, as he continues to write it.

I don't mind the show. I watch it knowing that it is unlikely that a lot of the things happening in it will be in the books. People have said it is like fan fiction, which is a fair way to look at it. But it is more like fan fiction with inside knowledge.

Someone also compared it to the Cursed Child in relation to Harry Potter. That's also a fair comparison. I read and enjoyed Cursed Child for what it was. Do I count it as a continuation of what happened after Harry Potter ended? Not at all.

The ASOIAF world is a world I am invested in and enjoy learning about. The books do not seem to be forthcoming, so to get any 'fresh' enjoyment out of it, the only way I can do that is by watching the show, even if it may be a substandard representation of the story. People have said they don't like watching the show because it could sway their opinion on characters, but from the very first episode of season one, I realised that the characters weren't like the ones in the books, anyway, give or take a few.

Now, this far down the line and with the writers working off an outline, they are even further from the book characters. For this reason, I am able to easily separate Jon Snow in ASOIAF and Jon Snow in GOT, for example.

The more it differs from the books, the better, in my eyes, as it means when the next books come out, it will be a totally different representation. A true representation.

That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the show for what it is, though. I think I actually enjoy the show more now since it went beyond the books, since I'm not constantly comparing it to the books, as what is happening in the show right now isn't based on any of the books.

[The Sleeper]

@JordanJH1993

I should clarify. I didn't think it was a good adaptation by the time I stopped watching.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Your struggle is admirable, but in the end futile. Like it or not the show is huge with a massive following. So at some point in the years before the books are released the chances are great that you will hear spoilers from how the show ends. Whether it's from the internet or simply every day life. D&D knows this and they feed off it.

[LynnS]

I'm not interested in the show anymore or it's many potential offsprings. But I do find the show commentary amusing, which leads me to youtube on occasion.  I don't actually blame the showrunners.  They expected to be able to adapt TWOW in a timely manner and that didn't happen; so they are left with fan service only and bringing the thing to an end.    That means all sizzle and no steak.   

[GloubieBoulga]

On 22/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

At this point the electronic visual version is so different from the books that I'm not even worried about spoilers anymore. 

same thought here. But I must confess that I never saw one episode of the show, I'm just following what french fan community is telling about the 2 last seasons (globaly, the readers don't like anymore and the non-readers actually think that the scenario and the characters have lost interest and complexity : all is good for an artificial drama but the show keeps some attractivity). So, I know what is happening in the show. GRRM will have some huge surprises for readers, without doubt 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

@Nymeria_Snow

I think this forum is a decent place for book-only people, but be warned that sometimes people are unclear on the rules regarding show spoilers and break those rules, so it is not 100% safe. The rules currently are that it is not allowed to hint at any show spoilers or even include info under spoiler tag in the main forum. So most threads are safe. Honestly, I have seen more spoilers via my newsfeed on my phone and youtube video titles than on this forum, so I don't think it is really any more dangerous than the rest of the internet.

As other people have mentioned, the show went a very different direction after season 4. They basically made an executive decision to cut many of the main characters who come into the story in AFFC and ADWD, and every character story line tied to those cut characters has been massively altered. In effect, the plots in Dorne, KL, WF, the Reach, and Essos have all been distorted beyond recognition. So most show info is relatively spoiler free, and there are plenty of us dissecting asoiaf as if the show didn't exist and basically ignoring things the show has done, assuming the books have a high chance of being different. That said, there are like 2 key things that have happened that are ultra-spoilers, that D&D said "Yeah, GRRM told us this will happen." But these did not drastically change my views on asoiaf theories. They both basically just confirmed theories I already had. Personally I recommend watching the show. I watch every episode and generally hate everything they have done in the past few years. It is a monumentally bad TV drama, though a decent action-comedy. And I have no fear of "second-hand" spoilers on the internet.

[Tagganaro]

5 hours ago, Lew Theobald said:

For better or worse, the show must go on.

GRRM faces no such limits.  If he runs into creative trouble he can keep us hanging indefinitely, and leave us fantasizing about how great the story would have been if only he had written it.

 

5 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not interested in the show anymore or it's many potential offsprings. But I do find the show commentary amusing, which leads me to youtube on occasion.  I don't actually blame the showrunners.  They expected to be able to adapt TWOW in a timely manner and that didn't happen; so they are left with fan service only and bringing the thing to an end.    That means all sizzle and no steak.   

Yeah, mostly I just feel bad for D & D, even when they deserve blame, I still go back to this not really being what they signed up for.  I still watch and enjoy the show, and am content to completely differentiate the show and the books.  The show is an alternate version of the story, and I try to approach it in that way to preserve my enjoyment of it.  

It does seem as if GRRM is just gonna leave us hanging indefinitely at this point.  I'm hopeful we at least get TWOW, but ADOS is seeming really unlikely at this point to me.  

[Thoror]

I haven't seen the show beyond its first season. But I love reading The Fandomentals/gotgifsandmusings; their hate for it is contagious.

[Damon_Tor]

On 8/21/2017 at 5:43 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

At this point the electronic visual version is so different from the books that I'm not even worried about spoilers anymore. 

Eh. I'm kind of worried about that. I mean the two best case scenarios:

1. GRRM told them nothing about the ending. The show is 100% divergent and so doesn't constitute spoilers.
2. GRRM told them everything, and what we're seeing is 100% faithful (implying, IMO, that the books are going to suck anyway, and so nothing of value was lost)

But I think the truth is somewhere in between. GRRM himself says he knows broadly how the story ends but doesn't know how it gets there, and I think that's exactly the information the HBO crew is working off of. That's basically the worst-case scenario for me: it means the HBO ending WILL be the ending, or near enough to it, but as writers they're seriously lacking compared to GRRM (not an insult to them, really: GRRM is extremely talented) so it's not going to be anywhere as good.

And yes, I'm watching it. There simply isn't a way to avoid spoilers for me: too many people in my life and society at large watch the show.

[Kristuz]

I kind of simultaneously read the novels and watched the show.

Wachted the first few episodes and then decided the read the novels first. I read somewhere that it's better to do it the other way around, but reading the novels first seems more logical.

I've currently just started with A Dance of Dragons and finished watching season 4. Stopped watching after that, because they showed more and more events that didn't pass in the novels yet.

I don't know if I'll finish ADoD first and then continue with the show. Or if I'll just bingewatch the rest of the show and read ADoD as I go. 

 

So, to answer the question. I haven't avoided the show until the end of season 4, but not sure what I'll do now. But I think I'll finish the last book first and then watch seasons 5 till 7 hoping the next novel will be released any time soon...

[Lady Blizzardborn]

11 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Eh. I'm kind of worried about that. I mean the two best case scenarios:

1. GRRM told them nothing about the ending. The show is 100% divergent and so doesn't constitute spoilers.
2. GRRM told them everything, and what we're seeing is 100% faithful (implying, IMO, that the books are going to suck anyway, and so nothing of value was lost)

But I think the truth is somewhere in between. GRRM himself says he knows broadly how the story ends but doesn't know how it gets there, and I think that's exactly the information the HBO crew is working off of. That's basically the worst-case scenario for me: it means the HBO ending WILL be the ending, or near enough to it, but as writers they're seriously lacking compared to GRRM (not an insult to them, really: GRRM is extremely talented) so it's not going to be anywhere as good.

And yes, I'm watching it. There simply isn't a way to avoid spoilers for me: too many people in my life and society at large watch the show.

Agreed. It's probably that he gave them the broad points he already had, the most major of all major things, but not how to get there. 

Been saying for a while it's like taking a drive to California, you can take the interstate or Route 66. Either way you get there, but the scenery is going to be very different. Also while the producers have been told the major points, they don't have any problem engaging in fan service and action movie style craziness. I wouldn't be surprised if they did change one or two things that are major enough to make a difference (like all the fan favs live and somehow rule together without more war breaking out).

I seek out the spoilers in advance for sanity's sake, and the safety of my tv. Don't get to watch the episodes in full until they come out on DVD.

[thehandwipes]

They say he told them "the ending" whatever that might mean in a story this complex but that doesn't mean they'll use it.  They don't seem to wany yo do the story that GRRM is writing, they discarded it for fanfiction long before they surpassed the books.

I've been off the forum for while too and I haven't seen season 7.  I've been "spoiled" on a couple of things but I don't think any of it spoiled the books.  It seems far too awful and predictable for that.

 

[Regular John Umber]

On 8/28/2017 at 4:15 PM, Damon_Tor said:

Eh. I'm kind of worried about that. I mean the two best case scenarios:

1. GRRM told them nothing about the ending. The show is 100% divergent and so doesn't constitute spoilers.
2. GRRM told them everything, and what we're seeing is 100% faithful (implying, IMO, that the books are going to suck anyway, and so nothing of value was lost)

But I think the truth is somewhere in between. GRRM himself says he knows broadly how the story ends but doesn't know how it gets there, and I think that's exactly the information the HBO crew is working off of. That's basically the worst-case scenario for me: it means the HBO ending WILL be the ending, or near enough to it, but as writers they're seriously lacking compared to GRRM (not an insult to them, really: GRRM is extremely talented) so it's not going to be anywhere as good.

And yes, I'm watching it. There simply isn't a way to avoid spoilers for me: too many people in my life and society at large watch the show.

 

 

 I still think there's a 4th way: he told them his ending, in broad or fine strokes, and they're not doing it, they're doing their own thing, based on which actors they like, what they perceive the audience reacts most to, and whatever the heck they feel like.