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Wm Portnoy

Greyworm and Theon

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I was happy to see Greyworm and the Unsullied on their own adventure at Casterly Rock.  The formidable Lannister fortress has fallen and the Lannisters lost the Reach anyway.  We will see the Unsullied and Greyworm in action again.

I am not a fan of Theon but I would love to see him in his own adventure and win a decisive victory over Uncle Euron.  Things look bad right now for Theon.  Euron is the better sea captain and he has the most powerful ship out there.  Theon will need a miracle.  I am actually pulling for Reek to pull a miracle and defeat the Iron Fleet.  This is where Davos can be of help to Theon.  A man of the sea versus Euron.  Davos is sure to know a few tricks like using wildfire.  Theon + Davos + Saladhor vs. Euron.   It could prove an interesting sea battle.

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Posted (edited)

46 minutes ago, Wm Portnoy said:

I was happy to see Greyworm and the Unsullied on their own adventure at Casterly Rock.  The formidable Lannister fortress has fallen and the Lannisters lost the Reach anyway.  We will see the Unsullied and Greyworm in action again.

Maybe not in action til season 8 but we will see the full magntiude of the Unsullied and the Dorthraki outside KL as a statement to Cersei/Jaime/Euron.

Quote

I am not a fan of Theon but I would love to see him in his own adventure and win a decisive victory over Uncle Euron.  Things look bad right now for Theon.  Euron is the better sea captain and he has the most powerful ship out there.  Theon will need a miracle.  I am actually pulling for Reek to pull a miracle and defeat the Iron Fleet.  This is where Davos can be of help to Theon.  A man of the sea versus Euron.  Davos is sure to know a few tricks like using wildfire.  Theon + Davos + Saladhor vs. Euron.   It could prove an interesting sea battle.

Ive heard of potential plots of the Stormlands/Riverlands coming back into play. If that was the case wouldnt it make sense that if say Euron took Stormsend etc that maybe Gendry would go with Theon to save his sister, since he potentially could have a genuine claim. I dont think we will see any more sea battles, just to see Euron and his armada destroyed to honest. 

Edited by Samwell_Tarly

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13 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

Theon has a much larger role to play if you ask me.

Please elaborate....I like to know your thoughts and how and why?? ^_^

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Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Please elaborate....I like to know your thoughts and how and why?? ^_^

He is a prince who has been "reborn" in both salt and flame (one literally, the other figuratively). They have also spent the last few years trying to portray him as something almost LESS than human. Literally removing his manhood. 

 

There is going to come a time when Theon goes off on everyone. And he is going to be like a warrior poet. The guy is no slouch. He has had some of the finest training money can buy. When he reaches his breaking point, people would do well to stay away from him. 

 

Theon is Azor Ahai.

 

ETA: There is also the bit about the red priestess telling folks that Stannis (who she thought was Azor) would betray everyone who loved him to fulfill his destiny as the chosen hero.

Theon actually did that.

Edited by Theon_is_Azor
To add.

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11 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

He is a prince who has been "reborn" in both salt and flame (one literally, the other figuratively). They have also spent the last few years trying to portray him as something almost LESS than human. Literally removing his manhood. 

11 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

There is going to come a time when Theon goes off on everyone. And he is going to be like a warrior poet. The guy is no slouch. He has had some of the finest training money can buy. When he reaches his breaking point, people would do well to stay away from him. 

Theon is Azor Ahai.

ETA: There is also the bit about the red priestess telling folks that Stannis (who she thought was Azor) would betray everyone who loved him to fulfill his destiny as the chosen hero.

Theon actually did that.

This place gets crazier by the day......... :rofl:

 

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40 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

This place gets crazier by the day......... :rofl:

 

I don't know why you are bristling about this. If you haven't been paying attention the show gets crazier by the day.

From where I sit Theon is a much better candidate than Jon. In order for Jon to fulfill prophesy you'd have to claim he was reborn in proximity to smoked sausages. Which is absurd of course.

 

Plus he isn't a prince. Nor is Dany. They are king and queen. 

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7 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

I don't know why you are bristling about this. If you haven't been paying attention the show gets crazier by the day.

From where I sit Theon is a much better candidate than Jon. In order for Jon to fulfill prophesy you'd have to claim he was reborn in proximity to smoked sausages. Which is absurd of course.

Plus he isn't a prince. Nor is Dany. They are king and queen. 

Id quite happily denounce all claims and titles if Theon is Azor Ahai. 

Out of everyone it goes something like this who I believe is Azor Ahai

1. Jamie Lannister

2. Jon Snow

....................................

997. Edmure Tulley

998. Little Sam

999. Podrick Payne

1000. Theon

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2 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Id quite happily denounce all claims and titles if Theon is Azor Ahai. 

Out of everyone it goes something like this who I believe is Azor Ahai

1. Jamie Lannister

2. Jon Snow

....................................

997. Edmure Tulley

998. Little Sam

999. Podrick Payne

1000. Theon

Claims and titles?

What in the world are you on about?

But for starters, how in the world would Jaime Lannister fulfill any single portion of the Azor Ahai prophesy? He doesn't. 

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I could see Jaime existing as The Prince Who Was Promised, while Theon being Azor.

If Jaime has any larger role to play, those two titles are separate. Theon = Azor. This is like basic story telling stuff. The guy who is most down trodden redeems himself and saves the day.

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19 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

I don't know why you are bristling about this. If you haven't been paying attention the show gets crazier by the day.

From where I sit Theon is a much better candidate than Jon. In order for Jon to fulfill prophesy you'd have to claim he was reborn in proximity to smoked sausages. Which is absurd of course.

 

Plus he isn't a prince. Nor is Dany. They are king and queen. 

Theon isn't a prince either. He was a prince during the two periods when his father was king, but now he's the nephew of a king, which doesn't make you a prince—as seen with, say, the children of Elizabeth II's sister Margaret, or Aegon V's sister Rhae.

And if having been a prince in the past is enough, then it's surely enough for Dany, who was born a princess, and remained one either until Aerys was dethroned or until she declared herself Queen.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Theon isn't a prince either. He was a prince during the two periods when his father was king, but now he's the nephew of a king, which doesn't make you a prince—as seen with, say, the children of Elizabeth II's sister Margaret, or Aegon V's sister Rhae.

And if having been a prince in the past is enough, then it's surely enough for Dany, who was born a princess, and remained one either until Aerys was dethroned or until she declared herself Queen.

Unless Euron has no children. In which case, Theon is still crown prince.

 

ETA: and those other folks are still in succession to the crown. The difference is prince vs crown prince.

Any male with claim to the throne is a prince. If Euron has no children, Theon is still first in line to rule the iron islands.

Edited by Theon_is_Azor
To add.

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Just now, Theon_is_Azor said:

Unless Euron has no children. In which case, Theon is still crown prince.

No, at least not in most monarchies. There are a few exceptions (I think Monaco is one), but in general, an heir presumptive* is not considered the crown prince.

Many countries (including historical England up to the modern UK) do have a process in which the King or Parliament or whoever can bestow the title of Prince on an heir presumptive (with or without making him heir apparent), but that's only done in special situations. And I doubt Euron went out of his way to name Theon his crown prince.

---

* As in someone who is the heir now, but could be displaced if someone with a better claim is born before the king dies—in other words, a nephew, daughter, etc., as opposed to a son, who's heir apparent because he can't be displaced by anything except his own death.

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Either way...Unless Euron has a child pretty soon, Theon will rule as King. So until such time, I would consider Theon a prince.

He isn't anything more.

If the prophesy spoke of Jon or Dany, it would say "King/Queen who was promised."

Maybe Jaime, but he has never been reborn.

 

Neither has Dany for that matter.

 

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1 minute ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

Either way...Unless Euron has a child pretty soon, Theon will rule as King. So until such time, I would consider Theon a prince.

He's not a prince by the rules of actual monarchies, but you want to call him one anyway. That's fine. And then the prophecy makes sense, as long as it wasn't written for anyone in-universe, or for any of GRRM's other readers, but instead it was written specifically for you, because GRRM knew you about your insistence on an idiosyncratic usage of the word "prince".

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Posted (edited)

"Many countries (including historical England up to the modern UK) do have a process in which the King or Parliament or whoever can bestow the title of Prince on an heir presumptive"

 

pretty sure that already happened when they drowned Theon in the sea.

ETA: in salt.

Edited by Theon_is_Azor
To add.

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55 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

"Many countries (including historical England up to the modern UK) do have a process in which the King or Parliament or whoever can bestow the title of Prince on an heir presumptive"

 

pretty sure that already happened when they drowned Theon in the sea.

ETA: in salt.

 

So every single Drowned Man is also a prince?

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You're being obtuse. And that's okay. There's only like 7 episodes left. We will find out soon enough.

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Woah - Theon as AA?!  No way, he hasn't gotten nearly enough attention / screen time this season for him to be the savior.  I actually think he is doomed in the books...

Spoiler

Stannis will execute him, but he will have made peace with his punishment and somehow Bran communicates to him that he is forgiven and did well by saving Jeyne.

I have no idea why he is still alive in the show.  Asha/Yara too.  Theon redeemed himself by saving Sansa.  He doesn't need to keep doing this whole "is he Reek is he Theon" thing, it wastes screen time in a rushed show.  But the actor is widely respected so they kept him on the show.  Also Yara helped the girl power stuff and keeps Euron relevant I guess.

I don't believe AA or TPTWP prophecies or any prophecies necessarily come true (though they motivate characters to take actions both good and bad), but I believe Jaime will be the one who delivers the final sacrifice to save humanity, either by killing the night king in a suicide mission or doing something else similar.  His redemption arc, even the bastardized show version, is a lot more compelling to me than Theon's identity crisis.

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26 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

You're being obtuse. And that's okay. There's only like 7 episodes left. We will find out soon enough.

No, you really are clutching at straws to try to not only justify something implausible, but also convince yourself that it's obvious, even though nobody else sees it but you. That's not everyone else being obtuse. That's you convincing yourself something is obviously true when it isn't.

Let's summarize your argument:

  • Theon must be the PtwP because he used to be a prince, while Dany can't because he isn't a princess anymore.
  • Wait, no, Theon is still a prince because that's what you call an heir presumptive, even though that's actually not what you call an heir presumptive.
  • Wait, no, somehow drowning counts as Euron officially acknowledging him, which would make him a prince, even though Euron certainly wouldn't agree, because drowning is special to the Ironborn—and it's totally different from all the Ironborn priests who are drowned and become priests rather than princes, in some way that's so obvious it's not worth explaining.

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