Would Littlefinger accept?

[devilish]

Timeline: Robert is dying. Ned is planning to sieze power and give it to Stannis which has irked Renly enough for the young Stag to leave. The wolves lack the numbers to take down Cersei so they have to rely on LF's Gold cloaks to do the job.

Ned's demands: LF remains loyal. The GC take Cersei and the lions into custody paving the way for Stannis to assume control over KL

Ned's concessions: He will allow LF to marry Sansa Stark. 

Would  Littlefinger accept?

[The Sleeper]

Setting aside the creep factor, no.

With Stannis as king LF's days are numbered. And not just his position as Master of Coin, his head remaining on his shoulders would be in question.

Hint: he betrayed Ned for free. Well, getting one of his stooges on the small council, was not bad, but he didn't claim a reward for himself.

He traded Lysa for Sansa, he possibly traded Joffrey for Sansa, but trading his own head would defeat the purpose.

[Angel Eyes]

Littlefinger was always planning to screw Ned over, possibly since Ned married Catelyn.

[kissdbyfire]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Littlefinger was always planning to screw Ned over, possibly since Ned married Catelyn.

I agree. There's no scenario where LF doesn't screw Ned over, not even Sansa's hand. He probably thinks he'll get it all in the end anyway. Another character that has got to die asap. 

[Stormking902]

11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I agree. There's no scenario where LF doesn't screw Ned over, not even Sansa's hand. He probably thinks he'll get it all in the end anyway. Another character that has got to die asap. 

He will be dead in winds for sure........

 

So that we can finally focus on the true threat to the realm of men. 

[Angel Eyes]

17 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I agree. There's no scenario where LF doesn't screw Ned over, not even Sansa's hand. He probably thinks he'll get it all in the end anyway. Another character that has got to die asap. 

Definitely. 

Personally, I believe the theory that Littlefinger inadvertently caused Robert's Rebellion, then waited until an opportunity presented itself to get Lysa to kill Jon, frame the Lannisters, and cause a war.

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 8/23/2017 at 2:17 AM, devilish said:

Timeline: Robert is dying. Ned is planning to sieze power and give it to Stannis which has irked Renly enough for the young Stag to leave. The wolves lack the numbers to take down Cersei so they have to rely on LF's Gold cloaks to do the job.

Ned's demands: LF remains loyal. The GC take Cersei and the lions into custody paving the way for Stannis to assume control over KL

Ned's concessions: He will allow LF to marry Sansa Stark. 

Would  Littlefinger accept?

Trick question, ned would never allow him to marry Sansa 

[devilish]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Trick question, ned would never allow him to marry Sansa 

That's a trick answer. Ned loves his children and Sansa is of a higher nobility standing then LF is. However, at that particular time, Westeros was at the brink of a civil war. Most of the damage could be mitigated if Ned took the royal family under his custody. The only way to achieve that was through LF help. 

Would Ned go past such classism if that meant saving thousands of innocent lives?

[The Sleeper]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

That's a trick answer. Ned loves his children and Sansa is of a higher nobility standing then LF is. However, at that particular time, Westeros was at the brink of a civil war. Most of the damage could be mitigated if Ned took the royal family under his custody. The only way to achieve that was through LF help. 

Would Ned go past such classism if that meant saving thousands of innocent lives?

That's a nonsensical question. War was inevitable since Robert's death. Neither Stannis nor Renly were willing to accept Lannister rule. Indeed it would mean their heads.

Besides the point wasn't to take charge of the royal family. In itself that is pointless. The point was to establish himself as regent. Tywin does not give a crap about hostages. But by dispossessing Joffrey and his siblings, he turned Tywin into a traitor.

But still, Stannis has no strength and no matter what he does people would think of him as a usurper. Nope that situation Ned found himself into was quite the dead end.

You also know very well that it would not be classism that would prevent Ned from agreeing to marry Sansa to LF. It is that he is a slimy psycho. If he had any inkling of his true feelings for Sansa, he would have gutted him on the spot. Which could have made his life easier.

[devilish]

12 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

That's a nonsensical question. War was inevitable since Robert's death. Neither Stannis nor Renly were willing to accept Lannister rule. Indeed it would mean their heads.

Besides the point wasn't to take charge of the royal family. In itself that is pointless. The point was to establish himself as regent. Tywin does not give a crap about hostages. But by dispossessing Joffrey and his siblings, he turned Tywin into a traitor.

But still, Stannis has no strength and no matter what he does people would think of him as a usurper. Nope that situation Ned found himself into was quite the dead end.

You also know very well that it would not be classism that would prevent Ned from agreeing to marry Sansa to LF. It is that he is a slimy psycho. If he had any inkling of his true feelings for Sansa, he would have gutted him on the spot. Which could have made his life easier.

War was inevitable but getting control over the royal family would improve Stannis chances to win it

a- With Cersei + her three children in Stannis control, The stag would basically have control over the Lannister claim to the throne. 
b - With Ned still alive then the Riverlands + the North will join ranks with Stannis. Since LF is now 'family' he would bring the Vale to the fold too.

Alliances can have a domino effect on things. In the current timeline Renly gets Tyrell support. There again would the Tyrells go toe to toe with Stannis knowing that he's got 3 regions at his side? 

Regarding Ned if he knew about LF's past then I doubt he would have trusted him in the first place. The problem would be classism which is fair enough. Sansa is a prized asset for the Starks. However, would Ned be ready to sacrifice such asset for the good of the realm? That's the 1 million question. 

[The Sleeper]

42 minutes ago, devilish said:

War was inevitable but getting control over the royal family would improve Stannis chances to win it

a- With Cersei + her three children in Stannis control, The stag would basically have control over the Lannister claim to the throne. 
b - With Ned still alive then the Riverlands + the North will join ranks with Stannis. Since LF is now 'family' he would bring the Vale to the fold too.

Alliances can have a domino effect on things. In the current timeline Renly gets Tyrell support. There again would the Tyrells go toe to toe with Stannis knowing that he's got 3 regions at his side? 

Regarding Ned if he knew about LF's past then I doubt he would have trusted him in the first place. The problem would be classism which is fair enough. Sansa is a prized asset for the Starks. However, would Ned be ready to sacrifice such asset for the good of the realm? That's the 1 million question. 

False premise. LF would never do anything that might lead to Stannis taking power.

And again, LF's station is the least of Ned's complaints about him. He never trusted him. He needed him. 

As to what weighs most to Ned, you have an answer by the fact that he confessed to treason.

The question stripped of opinion and speculation, is what would Ned do if LF asked for Sansa in exchange. Considering that he had already tried to leave King's Landing once and intended to send his daughters away the next morning you have your answer.

You want make a point about Ned or LF, say it and make your arguments. Don't try to get other people to do it for you.

[Damon_Tor]

On 8/23/2017 at 2:17 AM, devilish said:

Timeline: Robert is dying. Ned is planning to sieze power and give it to Stannis which has irked Renly enough for the young Stag to leave. The wolves lack the numbers to take down Cersei so they have to rely on LF's Gold cloaks to do the job.

Ned's demands: LF remains loyal. The GC take Cersei and the lions into custody paving the way for Stannis to assume control over KL

Ned's concessions: He will allow LF to marry Sansa Stark. 

Would  Littlefinger accept?

That depends. Is Harrenhal on the table? Because he needs Harrenhal or Sansa is useless.

[devilish]

11 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

That depends. Is Harrenhal on the table? Because he needs Harrenhal or Sansa is useless.

I don't think Ned has the authority to give Lordships and castles away, so the answer is probably no. My line of thought is simple here. LF is obsessed with Cat, Sansa is prettier then her and more connected then the young Tully girl was. Would LF accept such arrangement in exchange of any immediate power chaos can give him?

[devilish]

1 hour ago, The Sleeper said:

False premise. LF would never do anything that might lead to Stannis taking power.

And again, LF's station is the least of Ned's complaints about him. He never trusted him. He needed him. 

As to what weighs most to Ned, you have an answer by the fact that he confessed to treason.

The question stripped of opinion and speculation, is what would Ned do if LF asked for Sansa in exchange. Considering that he had already tried to leave King's Landing once and intended to send his daughters away the next morning you have your answer.

You want make a point about Ned or LF, say it and make your arguments. Don't try to get other people to do it for you.

I am suggesting an alternative timeline were the decision maker is LF not Ned. My question is relatively simple. If Ned offers Sansa to LF in exchange of his support then would the latter accept? Now we can argue until hell freezes whether Ned would offer that to LF or not but that's not the argument here. 

[The Sleeper]

12 minutes ago, devilish said:

I am suggesting an alternative timeline were the decision maker is LF not Ned. My question is relatively simple. If Ned offers Sansa to LF in exchange of his support then would the latter accept? Now we can argue until hell freezes whether Ned would offer that to LF or not but that's not the argument here. 

 

2 hours ago, devilish said:

Regarding Ned if he knew about LF's past then I doubt he would have trusted him in the first place. The problem would be classism which is fair enough. Sansa is a prized asset for the Starks. However, would Ned be ready to sacrifice such asset for the good of the realm? That's the 1 million question. 

?

As for your original question I have already answered it in the second post.

[devilish]

23 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

 

?

As for your original question I have already answered it in the second post.

I tried to answer to that out of respect to a fellow (and intelligent) poster. But seriously mate it was delving too much out of the subject.

My argument here is simple. If given a choice would LF choose an upgrade of Cat or would he instead opt for his ambition? 

[The Sleeper]

@devilishNo, he wouldn't. It wasn't a matter of ambition. With Stannis in power his life would have been o n the line.

[devilish]

49 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

@devilishNo, he wouldn't. It wasn't a matter of ambition. With Stannis in power his life would have been o n the line.

Why?

Don't you think that under such circumstances Ned would do his best to protect his son in law? After all Stannis need Ned more then Ned need Stannis.

[The Sleeper]

14 minutes ago, devilish said:

Why?

Don't you think that under such circumstances Ned would do his best to protect his son in law? After all Stannis need Ned more then Ned need Stannis.

What do you mean why? Have read about Stannis? At all?

This is so out of character that I can't begin to put togethet what is wrong with this picture. At the very least Stannis would have stripped LF of any authority. Slynt would have lost his head. So would most of LF's associates. Banishment from the court would have been the best LF would have hoped for. Stannis would have found a new reason to take LF's head off every day. Nor would he have considered himself bound by any of Ned's promises.

Ned himself had every intention of leaving King's Landing. Stannis had no intention of keeping him there. Even if things had turned out that way he would have left to take charge of the northern army.

In short, LF would place himself at the mercy of a man who would strip all his power from him, counting on the protection of another man who would be absent, which men don't particularly get along and both of whom despise him? And you think he would have agreed to that?

[Damon_Tor]

5 hours ago, devilish said:

I don't think Ned has the authority to give Lordships and castles away, so the answer is probably no. My line of thought is simple here. LF is obsessed with Cat, Sansa is prettier then her and more connected then the young Tully girl was. Would LF accept such arrangement in exchange of any immediate power chaos can give him?

As Hand, sure he would. Tyrion is Hand when he gives him Harrenhal. His ability to do so was never contested.

I think it's a mistake to think that Littlefinger is simply obsessed to its own end. I think we need to understand what it is about Cat (and later Sansa) that he's obsessed with. The story tries really hard to paint Harrenhal as just another rung on his ladder, a necessary step in his plan and nothing more, but GRRM notes he hunger Tyrion notices in Littlefinger when he offers it to him, an how unusual that show of emotion was. That implies to me that Harrenhal is a part of his endgame, not just a means to an end.