Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Just now, sperry said: I don't think it's particularly close. I really think Cleveland eviscerates the Celtics here. Certainly closer than last seasons 4-1 drubbing though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Just now, sperry said: I don't think it's particularly close. I really think Cleveland eviscerates the Celtics here. It could be fun though, even if it isn't particularly compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Certainly closer than last seasons 4-1 drubbing though, right? I'm not so sure. LeBron is going to be extra motivated to send a message in that series, whereas last year Boston was just a speed bump en route to the Finals and the primary goal was to just not get anyone injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Maithanet said: Where did Millsap go? I don't even remember. Was it the Kings? Denver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Your NBA haiku of the day... Irving to Boston Thomas to the Cavaliers Warriors in 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Your NBA haiku of the day... Irving to Boston Thomas to the Cavaliers Warriors in 5 Wow brah, must be sooooo cool to hop on a bandwagon a few years ago and get this sort of pay out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Relic said: Wow brah, must be sooooo cool to hop on a bandwagon a few years ago and get this sort of pay out. I'm not complaining, yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Certainly closer than last seasons 4-1 drubbing though, right? What would concern me if I was the Cavs is that Boston was better after IT got hurt. That said, the Cavs will smash the Celtics in the playoffs. But this trade was never about the 2017 season, for either team. The Cavs are set up well if (and probably when) LeBron leaves while still having the best roster in the East for the 2017 season and the Celtics solved the IT contract problem while improving their team significantly from last year. Still, the Warriors will own the NBA for the next 2-3 seasons. And by the time their run ends one would expect the Wolves, Bucks, Nuggets and Sixers to all be monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said: What would concern me if I was the Cavs is that Boston was better after IT got hurt. No doubt, but as I mentioned in previous topics, that's largely because you can't win with Thomas as your best player. He's too easy to game plan for if he's the primary and go-to scorer. That will no longer be the case with the Cavs, though. He won't be the best player on the team this year. Teams won't be able to game plan just to stop him, because every double you send at him means that you're not doubling LeBron James or Kevin Love, or that you're leaving guys like Smith or Crowder wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/watch-angry-celtics-fans-burned-isaiah-thomas-jerseys-after-trade-to-cavs/ Apparently Celtics fans are burning Isaiah Thomas jerseys which...just...makes no fucking sense at all. He was traded! He didn't ask out. As far as I know, he didn't want out either. I could understand if Cavs fans were burning Kyrie jerseys, because he's a childish idiot who demanded a trade after going to the Finals three straight years in a row with an express ticket to a fourth and was bitching about not being the man even though he led the Cavs in shots and usage last year, but Thomas? What the fuck? I'm not gonna pretend to be the guy's biggest fan or anything, but why would you burn the jersey of a guy who didn't demand out and would have been happy to play there again this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 23 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: What would concern me if I was the Cavs is that Boston was better after IT got hurt. That said, the Cavs will smash the Celtics in the playoffs. But this trade was never about the 2017 season, for either team. The Cavs are set up well if (and probably when) LeBron leaves while still having the best roster in the East for the 2017 season and the Celtics solved the IT contract problem while improving their team significantly from last year. Still, the Warriors will own the NBA for the next 2-3 seasons. And by the time their run ends one would expect the Wolves, Bucks, Nuggets and Sixers to all be monsters. Just speaking for myself, I really don't. I have a hard time believing this considering how unstable those organizations are and how much they suck at developing the talent they actually have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: Just speaking for myself, I really don't. I have a hard time believing this considering how unstable those organizations are and how much they suck at developing the talent they actually have. I also took issue with that statement. IMO, the Bucks and Nuggets are really promising because of one guy. They have a few other young prospects, but really we're just talking about Jokic and Giannis. And everyone knows one guy isn't enough to win in this league, look at the dominant performances Anthony Davis has put up, or Westbrook managed last year. So the only way the Bucks and Nuggets are "monsters" is if they draft or develop another star. Which is possible, but not particularly likely. The Sixers have several talented guys, and maybe they'll finally be able to turn it around. I'm skeptical that the organization is competent enough to do that, but we'll see. The Wolves ought to be pretty good next year, and possibly get better still if KAT and (particularly) Wiggins improve with age. That's really the only one of the four that seems like a solid bet to contend for championships with their existing core, and even that is dependent on good luck in terms of development and injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Red Tiger said: Just speaking for myself, I really don't. I have a hard time believing this considering how unstable those organizations are and how much they suck at developing the talent they actually have. True, but new regimes can wash away past mistakes. and I picked these teams specifically because they each have a player who could legitimately be a top 5ish player in the future, which is why, for example, I didn't include the Suns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I'm enjoying seeing the Timberwolves running a media blitz to pretend they weren't willing to trade Wiggins for Kyrie now that it's no longer on the table. From what I've heard, the Cavs could have had Wiggins and Teague for Kyrie (probably more to the deal than this, but that was the backbone of it) if the Cavs were willing to wait until whenever Teague was able to be traded. I think that's December 15th. The Cavs weren't interested in Wiggins, though, likely because he'll be demanding max money and that will be one of the absolute worst contracts in the league if he gets it, right behind Noah and Horford. It's no coincidence that Minnesota's contract offer to Wiggins went out right after it became clear that Kyrie wasn't going to be traded to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 9 hours ago, briantw said: I'm enjoying seeing the Timberwolves running a media blitz to pretend they weren't willing to trade Wiggins for Kyrie now that it's no longer on the table. From what I've heard, the Cavs could have had Wiggins and Teague for Kyrie (probably more to the deal than this, but that was the backbone of it) if the Cavs were willing to wait until whenever Teague was able to be traded. I think that's December 15th. The Cavs weren't interested in Wiggins, though, likely because he'll be demanding max money and that will be one of the absolute worst contracts in the league if he gets it, right behind Noah and Horford. It's no coincidence that Minnesota's contract offer to Wiggins went out right after it became clear that Kyrie wasn't going to be traded to them. There wasn't a single local insider who reported anything of the sort. There was a hypothetical deal swapping Wiggins for Kyrie and shipping Teague out for a SG or a wing, but never the two for Kyrie. And what the Wolves really wanted to do was trade Teague and picks for Kyrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: There wasn't a single local insider who reported anything of the sort. There was a hypothetical deal swapping Wiggins for Kyrie and shipping Teague out for a SG or a wing, but never the two for Kyrie. And what the Wolves really wanted to do was trade Teague and picks for Kyrie. All I can say is that I've heard the opposite from some people who are actually connected with the Cavs, along with someone who has connections to the Knicks. I've heard the Wolves were more than willing to move Wiggins for Kyrie. And why wouldn't they be? Wiggins isn't good. He's an empty stats player whose team is worse when he's on the floor. I'm sure Minnesota is hoping that he develops over the course of the new contract, but historically guys who are as bad as Wiggins has been his first three years just don't magically become superstars. Meanwhile, Kyrie, while not perfect, is a top twenty or so player in the league. Minnesota would be idiotic to not trade Wiggins for Kyrie, especially with that contract coming up. Cleveland, though, wanted no part of Wiggins from what I have heard. Hard to blame them. They got two players who were better than him back in the deal they did take, and that pick will probably end up a better player too, provided they don't trade it this season for someone who is certainly better. And of course there's not a single local insider who reported that. Minnesota is currently going out of their way to leak that they never offered Wiggins because they don't want to piss him off now that they know they can't trade him. You see this every time a trade falls through. The team offering the guys always leaks to their local guys that the offer was never really on the table, and that they're fully committed to Player X. It's also never true. If Cleveland had been willing to wait until Teague could be traded, and if they had any interest at all in Wiggins (they don't), Wiggins would have been a Cav again. Again, it's no coincidence that they offered him a massive contract right after it became clear that Cleveland was going to do the deal with Boston. The timing is laughable. Why not offer him that contract a month ago? You know why. Because they were trying to trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 On 23-8-2017 at 7:28 PM, Jaime L said: Boston's better than last year with another legit star in Hayward. And Kyrie is a killer in the playoffs. It's now been beyond proven over the last two postseasons where he erupts for 40 points seemingly whenever their backs are against the wall. And when he deigns to play defense he actually can where with I.T., it's almost irrelevant how hard he tries on that end. Also who on Cleveland defends Kyrie? Iman Shumpert, Master Bricklayer. I agree with you that Boston looks better and really a quite exciting team to watch IMO. Yes they will fall short of the Cavs, where I imagine Kevin Love gets a bigger role again and they are a very deep team. Let's assume for the moment that Thomas comes back a 100%, the guy deserves it. But still, that Boston team, with Tatum and Brown developing, Horford manning up, and two spectacularly talented guys in Hayward and Irving. On 23-8-2017 at 8:09 PM, briantw said: The better question is who on Boston defends LeBron. They sent away their two best defenders this offseason. We already know they have no one who can guard Love. Love and Thompson just abuse Al Horford, who by the way probably has the second worst contract in the entire league (Noah is first without question). They also don't really have anyone who can defend Thomas, as once again they shipped out their two best perimeter defenders. I'm expecting a bounce back year from Horford. It's too early for him to be past his prime and in this new brand spanking new team, he needs to perform. I think he still can. Agreed with your point that Thomas, no longer required to the main focal point of opponent's attention, is going to find even more holes to slither through and make buckets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Calibandar said: I'm expecting a bounce back year from Horford. It's too early for him to be past his prime and in this new brand spanking new team, he needs to perform. I think he still can. Horford has gotten absolutely destroyed by Love/Thompson each of the past three years (Love missed the first year match-up with his shoulder injury, but Thompson fed Horford his lunch in Love's stead). Horford is just not that good any more and he's never been an elite rebounder. He's a terrible match-up against both Love and Thompson for different reasons, and I definitely don't see that changing. He also absolutely has the second-worst contract in the league right now. I can't believe Boston gave him that deal. It's horrendous. Wiggins will be right up there with him, though, when he signs that max deal with Minny, although at least with Wiggins you can dubiously point to some upside that he'll probably never reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 I don't share the negative sentiments on Wiggins. Big year for him to continue to improve, sure, but in this market I think a max deal for him could be acceptable. I like a lot of what I've seen from him sofar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Calibandar said: I don't share the negative sentiments on Wiggins. Big year for him to continue to improve, sure, but in this market I think a max deal for him could be acceptable. I like a lot of what I've seen from him sofar. The issue is that, historically, players who have been as bad as Wiggins has been his first three years just don't go on to become stars. It just doesn't happen. Players take leaps at different times, of course, but generally if a guy is going to become a star you see some signs that he's making a positive impact on the court within his first year. Wiggins is on year three and his team is still worse when he's on the court. I haven't been able to find anyone else who has been that bad through three years and went on to become a star. He basically projects to be, at best, a slightly above league average player. At worst, he'll continue to be an empty stats guy who scores a lot of points but doesn't make his team better when he's out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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