NBA 2017: Fleecing the East and Kyrie to Boston

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Just now, briantw said:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/912790082343587840

Inevitable. 

Also, it will be interesting to see how Heat fans react. I listen to a sports show based out of Miami (Le Batard) and they give off the impression that they'd be cool with Wade signing anywhere except with the Cavs. There's still a lot of bad blood between those two franchises' fan bases. 

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yeah I'm seeing that now too. I guess a lot can change in a day. I think this also means that Wade won't be going back to Miami other then to sign a 1 day contract to retire as a member of the Heat.

That aside, what do you think a mostly washed Wade adds to the Cavs? I know SG is a position of need, but IDK what Wade gives the team, especially without IT. 

There was never any chance of Wade going back to Miami this year when he took the eight million pay cut in the buyout.  You don't do that to go sign with a team that isn't a contender, as there would be no need for him to be there in time for training camp.  He could have just drawn out the process and kept more of that money and then signed with Miami whenever it was done.  Giving up the eight million meant he was a lock to go to a contender.

As far as Wade goes, it's not as if the dude is dead.  He averaged 18 PPG last year acceptable efficiency and, if you look at the advanced stats, he was still clearly making a positive impact across the board.  He's nowhere near as good as he was in his prime, but he still gives more than he takes away when he's on the floor.  He'll also presumably be playing less minutes with the Cavs, which should mean he makes a greater impact during the minutes he does play since he can conserve his energy.

[briantw]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, it will be interesting to see how Heat fans react. I listen to a sports show based out of Miami (Le Batard) and they give off the impression that they'd be cool with Wade signing anywhere except with the Cavs. There's still a lot of bad blood between those two franchises' fan bases. 

I really don't understand why Heat fans would hate the Cavs.  Their GM colluded to get LeBron and Bosh to Miami and the NBA turned a blind eye to it, and they got two fucking titles out of it.  What the hell more do they want?  Cavs fans hating Riley and the Heat is understandable given how things played out, but I can't understand why Miami fans would be pissed when they got exactly what they wanted out of LeBron: championships and several of his best years.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

I really don't understand why Heat fans would hate the Cavs.  Their GM colluded to get LeBron and Bosh to Miami and the NBA turned a blind eye to it, and they got two fucking titles out of it.  What the hell more do they want?  Cavs fans hating Riley and the Heat is understandable given how things played out, but I can't understand why Miami fans would be pissed when they got exactly what they wanted out of LeBron: championships and several of his best years.

They think LeBron stabbed them in the back (he sort of did, but not to the degree that he did the Cavs wrong). It's just your typical over the top sports fandom.

8 minutes ago, briantw said:

There was never any chance of Wade going back to Miami this year when he took the eight million pay cut in the buyout.  You don't do that to go sign with a team that isn't a contender, as there would be no need for him to be there in time for training camp.  He could have just drawn out the process and kept more of that money and then signed with Miami whenever it was done.  Giving up the eight million meant he was a lock to go to a contender.

Eh those are some valid points, but a lot of Wade's comments over the course of last year made it apparent that he missed Miami badly. And as far as join a contender is concerned, I honest think OKC is a fair amount better than the Cavs, but yes, joining the Cavs gives you a much easier path to the Finals.

11 minutes ago, briantw said:

As far as Wade goes, it's not as if the dude is dead.  He averaged 18 PPG last year acceptable efficiency and, if you look at the advanced stats, he was still clearly making a positive impact across the board.  He's nowhere near as good as he was in his prime, but he still gives more than he takes away when he's on the floor.  He'll also presumably be playing less minutes with the Cavs, which should mean he makes a greater impact during the minutes he does play since he can conserve his energy.

No, but Wade was a borderline top 5 player in the league for awhile. I'm not sure he's top 50 these days. He's better than what the Cavs had, but IDK if he makes that much of an impact, especially if IT isn't right this year. I guess we'll see. 

[briantw]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh those are some valid points, but a lot of Wade's comments over the course of last year made it apparent that he missed Miami badly. And as far as join a contender is concerned, I honest think OKC is a fair amount better than the Cavs, but yes, joining the Cavs gives you a much easier path to the Finals.

I'm sure Wade considered going back to Miami, but you don't take an eight million pay cut to go to a team you could go to a month later by only forfeiting a couple million.  There was no rush to go to Miami.  They're not contending for anything this year.  It was obvious to me when he took the cut that he was going to a contending team and wanted to be there for training camp.

And regardless of whether or not OKC is better than the Cavs (which I don't think is the case at all...LeBron is still the best player on either team, and the Cavs are much deeper), the Thunder still play in the West, which means they're probably losing in the WCF if they even make it that far, whereas the Cavs basically have a free pass to the Finals, barring LeBron getting hurt of course.

[briantw]

https://twitter.com/World_Wide_Wob/status/912792239268597761

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Eh, Wade is just an interesting role player at this point, isn't he? Much ado about nothing. He doesn't put anyone over the top, and he's overpaid.

[briantw]

22 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, Wade is just an interesting role player at this point, isn't he? Much ado about nothing. He doesn't put anyone over the top, and he's overpaid.

He's not overpaid any more.  He's making 2.3 million, which I think is about 200k more than his veteran minimum would have been.

And I think he's valuable depth on a contending team.  He still has the ability to dial back the clock on any given night and play like prime Wade.  You're not going to get that guy consistently, but he'll show up occasionally and you'll win games because of it.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, briantw said:

He's not overpaid any more.  He's making 2.3 million.

About what he's worth? 

[briantw]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

About what he's worth? 

With the modern cap, I'd say he's worth at least 8-10 million this year.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

7 minutes ago, briantw said:

With the modern cap, I'd say he's worth at least 8-10 million this year.  

I guess we'll see. What is he at this point outside a spot up shooter? Can he defend? Drive? You can get a good spot up shooter for a lot less than 8-10 large.

[briantw]

18 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I guess we'll see. What is he at this point outside a spot up shooter? Can he defend? Drive? You can get a good spot up shooter for a lot less than 8-10 large.

This is an NBA where TJ Warren just signed a four year, fifty million dollar contract and you don't think Wade is worth 8-10 for one year?  

What good spot up shooters can you get for less than eight million who aren't borderline corpses?

And this is all kind of irrelevant because Wade, even at his current level, is absolutely a bargain at 2.3 million.  He's still an above average NBA player.  You can't find a lot of those for that kind of deal.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

15 minutes ago, briantw said:

What good spot up shooters can you get for less than eight million who aren't borderline corpses?

Dwyane Wade, apparently? Although someone should get a pulse on that guy before we declare him not a borderline corpse.

I'd say at this point he's pretty average. 41% shooting percentage? 45.7 was the league average last season.

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Dwyane Wade, apparently? Although someone should get a pulse on that guy before we declare him not a borderline corpse.

I'd say at this point he's pretty average. 41% shooting percentage? 45.7 was the league average last season.

Wade can do other things besides shoot, though.  He's a very good passer and playmaker.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

Wade can do other things besides shoot, though.  He's a very good passer and playmaker.

Eh, enjoy him. I don't think he's does much or anything to improve the Cavs.

[briantw]

4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, enjoy him. I don't think he's does much or anything to improve the Cavs.

I think he'll be better on the Cavs than he was on the Bulls last year.  He'll play less minutes and he'll be surrounded by much, much better players.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think he'll be better on the Cavs than he was on the Bulls last year.  He'll play less minutes and he'll be surrounded by much, much better players.

I will give you that. Still, I doubt he'll be an impact player of any note. Maybe his experience playing with LeBron will make him worthwhile? Or if he's one of those guys who can communicate with him on another level? Given how much they went through together? I suppose he might have some value on that front. 

[briantw]

17 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I will give you that. Still, I doubt he'll be an impact player of any note. Maybe his experience playing with LeBron will make him worthwhile? Or if he's one of those guys who can communicate with him on another level? Given how much they went through together? I suppose he might have some value on that front. 

The way I see it, every minute Wade plays is a minute Shumpert doesn't, which in and of itself is a massive improvement for the Cavs.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, briantw said:

The way I see it, every minute Wade plays is a minute Shumpert doesn't, which in and of itself is a massive improvement for the Cavs.  

You may just have a point there.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I think the main problem with Wade is that he can't defend anyone anymore (vintage Wade was the truth on D though). And what the Cavs need badly is two way players. That's why they're still a bad match up against the Dubs.