NBA 2017: Fleecing the East and Kyrie to Boston

[briantw]

10 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

That looks like a step backwards on paper.

Well, yeah, while Thomas is out.  But once he's back he'll slot right into the Kyrie role and Rose will be a bench guy as well.

Either way, I think that smallball lineup will kill it during the regular season.  Last year with Love at the five the Cavs just ravaged teams.

[Mother Cocanuts]

35 minutes ago, sperry said:

I think George will sign a 1 and 1 with OKC after this season unless things go terribly.  No reason to jump to LA while they're still in rebuild mode.

That could be the case especially if OKC makes it well into the playoffs. But I think he wants to return home.

32 minutes ago, briantw said:

Sounds like the Cavs are going to start out the season with Kevin Love at center, Crowder as their PF, and LeBron, JR, and Rose as the other three.  Wade will likely come off the bench and play backup PG and apparently is fine with that.  Should be interesting.  I think that lineup will run up the score on a lot of teams easily in the regular season.

I like Love as center. In Minnesota, he was a premiere post-up player. I think with him playing center, he'll get back to his roots. The Cavs will dominate the East, but the East is so devoid of talent with the exception of the Cavs and Celtics, that I don't imagine that it would be a tough road for either to the conference finals.

Did anyone catch the pre-season game between the Hornets and Celtics? It was Kyrie's first performance as a Celtic. He was pretty scrappy that game, forcing turnovers and teaching the Hornets some English.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Wow, LeBron is one dimensional? Has no court vision? A bad defender? Dude I have to say that you saying these things make me think 2 things. You're a LeBron hater or you have absolutely no idea wtf your taking about. I'm leaning towards the latter. He averages almost 8 assists in his career and that doesn't happen when you don't have great court vision. I'm on board with everyone else, you're trolling, Bruh!

[briantw]

1 hour ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Wow, LeBron is one dimensional? Has no court vision? A bad defender? Dude I have to say that you saying these things make me think 2 things. You're a LeBron hater or you have absolutely no idea wtf your taking about. I'm leaning towards the latter. He averages almost 8 assists in his career and that doesn't happen when you don't have great court vision. I'm on board with everyone else, you're trolling, Bruh!

LeBron is easily one of the best passers of all time, especially for a forward.

[briantw]

Also, apparently there's some internal panic from the Lakers about Paul George.  They thought he was a sure thing, but now his camp is changing their tune and saying he just wants to win.  Westbrook is selling him hard on OKC and the chance to win a title.  And he supposedly is liking OKC thus far as a place he could live.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

LeBron is easily one of the best passers of all time, especially for a forward.

Yeah, the notion that LeBron is one dimensional might be the silliest thing ever said in the NBA threads.

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Also, apparently there's some internal panic from the Lakers about Paul George.  They thought he was a sure thing, but now his camp is changing their tune and saying he just wants to win.  Westbrook is selling him hard on OKC and the chance to win a title.  And he supposedly is liking OKC thus far as a place he could live.

I doubt Melo stays though. It's frustrating watching the stars leave small markets. It's not like you have to live there year round. Just do what LeBron does and live in Cleveland during the season and live in L.A. or where ever during the offseason. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I'd be tickled if the Lakers remain irrelevant for the remainder of my lifetime.  

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I'd be tickled if the Lakers remain irrelevant for the remainder of my lifetime.  

I think basically every non-Lakers fan feels that way.  Watching them stumble along while being completely unable to attract any new stars and overpaying guys like Deng and Mosgov instead is just fucking glorious.

Also, every year of continued failure just makes it less and less likely that they'll be able to attract any top stars going forward.  Playing for the Lakers used to be an honor and a big deal.  Now, they can barely find guys to take their money, and no one that's worth what they're paying them.

It's also nice to see three of the top five teams in the league are small market teams.  Cleveland, San Antonio, and OKC are all in the bottom 11 (Cleveland is 20th) of media market size and all three should be contending for a Finals spot in seven or eight months.  The NBA has definitely changed.

[James Arryn]

39 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I'd be tickled if the Lakers remain irrelevant for the remainder of my lifetime.  

Will not happen. In the words of David Stern: "Flagship Franchise"

It is mainly for that reason (and all it entails) that I hate the Lakers. Never seen a team gifted so many franchise players in any sport. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Will not happen. In the words of David Stern: "Flagship Franchise"

It is mainly for that reason (and all it entails) that I hate the Lakers. Never seen a team gifted so many franchise players in any sport. 

Yeah, you're probably right, but I'll continue to enjoy it while it lasts. Let's just say it doesn't look like they can see the light at the end of the tunnel just yet. 

[Mother Cocanuts]

4 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Wow, LeBron is one dimensional? Has no court vision? A bad defender?

I never said he was a bad defender. I think this board should require that K-12 Reader be completed before signing up.

4 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Dude I have to say that you saying these things make me think 2 things. You're a LeBron hater or you have absolutely no idea wtf your taking about. I'm leaning towards the latter.

I don't hate Lebron; I do know what I'm talking about. Too bad for your false dilemma.

4 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

He averages almost 8 assists in his career and that doesn't happen when you don't have great court vision.

Quantity isn't necessarily quality, brother. He's his team's primary ball handler with an offense designed for him. While it's impressive that he docks many assists, when he puts up more assists then the rest of his team combined, what does that tell you? That the ball moves through him. Add that to the fact the he's seventh of all time in usage rate, and that "court vision" becomes less 20/20. If we were to go by the standard you've set, Russell Westbrook would be the leagues best passer and court seer.

 

4 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

 I'm on board with everyone else, you're trolling, Bruh!

You and "everyone else" shouldn't flatter yourselves, bruh! In order for me to "troll" I would have to purposely attempt to provoke your emotions. I don't care how you feel. You care how you feel; therefore, you react to my statements rather than respond with facts. Rather than take responsibility for your emotional instability, you project and blame me. Sorry, you're not my girlfriend. I already have enough emotional baggage to deal with.

[briantw]

10 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Will not happen. In the words of David Stern: "Flagship Franchise"

It is mainly for that reason (and all it entails) that I hate the Lakers. Never seen a team gifted so many franchise players in any sport. 

A lot has changed in the last ten to twenty years, though.  It's becoming increasingly obvious that any franchise can become a flagship franchise.  They don't lose viewers because small market teams are in the Finals any more.  The NBA has become a global sport, and unlike some of the other major sports in the US, has very smartly utilized the internet to make their games and content easily accessible to everyone.

Similarly, players are finding that they don't have to play in New York or Los Angeles to get massive marketing deals any more.  You can get nationwide ad campaigns playing in any city, although it obviously helps if your team is good.  Kevin Love went from a larger media market in Minneapolis to a smaller one in Cleveland, but he's seen his marketing opportunities skyrocket because he's playing on one of the league's premiere teams next to one of the three best players to ever play the game.  The market you played in used to play a huge role in your opportunities outside of basketball, but that's really no longer the case in the modern internet age.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

1 hour ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

I never said he was a bad defender. I think this board should require that K-12 Reader be completed before signing up.

I don't hate Lebron; I do know what I'm talking about. Too bad for your false dilemma.

Quantity isn't necessarily quality, brother. He's his team's primary ball handler with an offense designed for him. While it's impressive that he docks many assists, when he puts up more assists then the rest of his team combined, what does that tell you? That the ball moves through him. Add that to the fact the he's seventh of all time in usage rate, and that "court vision" becomes less 20/20. If we were to go by the standard you've set, Russell Westbrook would be the leagues best passer and court seer.

 

You and "everyone else" shouldn't flatter yourselves, bruh! In order for me to "troll" I would have to purposely attempt to provoke your emotions. I don't care how you feel. You care how you feel; therefore, you react to my statements rather than respond with facts. Rather than take responsibility for your emotional instability, you project and blame me. Sorry, you're not my girlfriend. I already have enough emotional baggage to deal with.

Emotional instability? Yore spewing bulllshit. And, bruh was making fun of your endearing usage of the term. Highest usage rate in the NBA thread ever.

[Mother Cocanuts]

16 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Emotional instability? Yore spewing bulllshit. And, bruh was making fun of your endearing usage of the term. Highest usage rate in the NBA thread ever.

Yes. Emotional instability. If you were relying on facts rather than your emotion, you wouldn't need to attempt to insult me to make your point. You see, I don't need to respond with the insults because I know the facts are the facts. And if I'm annoyed by any statements you make, that's on me. I shouldn't be getting emotional over a discussion of basketball facts, let alone blame you because you disagree. I can manage my emotions because I'm stable. And so far, you have demonstrated no ability to manage your emotions.

[James Arryn]

6 hours ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Yes. Emotional instability. If you were relying on facts rather than your emotion, you wouldn't need to attempt to insult me to make your point. You see, I don't need to respond with the insults because I know the facts are the facts. And if I'm annoyed by any statements you make, that's on me. I shouldn't be getting emotional over a discussion of basketball facts, let alone blame you because you disagree. I can manage my emotions because I'm stable. And so far, you have demonstrated no ability to manage your emotions.

You're accusing him of being emotional and calling it instability. I'm going to err on the side of assuming ignorance rather than Classic psychopath. 

[baxus]

11 hours ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

I don't hate Lebron; I do know what I'm talking about. Too bad for your false dilemma.

And I'm pretty sure your Mom says you're cool, too.

Trying to diminish LeBron's skill and saying you know what you're talking about just does not go with one another.

The guy's been a franchise player for 100% of the time he spent in the NBA, he's basically single-handedly carried Cleveland Cavaliers to the NBA finals before moving to Miami, he's won every single thing there is to win both as part of the team and as an individual. He's undoubtedly one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

Bashing him on your perceived lack of his versatility also has no grounds in reality.

And I'm saying all that as someone who is not a LeBron fan, but only likes to give credit where credit is due.

[BigFatCoward]

@Mother Cocanuts its fine to have different opinions, but you won't last long round here if you keep acting as you are.  You only have 54 posts and yet you've managed to wind everyone up in 2 different threads.  Take the advice or leave it, i don't care either way. 

[Mother Cocanuts]

3 hours ago, baxus said:

And I'm pretty sure your Mom says you're cool, too.

How'd you know?

3 hours ago, baxus said:

Trying to diminish LeBron's skill and saying you know what you're talking about just does not go with one another.

How convenient for your argument.

3 hours ago, baxus said:

The guy's been a franchise player for 100% of the time he spent in the NBA, he's basically single-handedly carried Cleveland Cavaliers to the NBA finals before moving to Miami, he's won every single thing there is to win both as part of the team and as an individual.

He's 3 and 5 in the Finals, so he obviously hasn't won every single thing there is to win. Unless, you're talking about winning individual accolades in which case I don't think he's ever won "6th Man of the Year" or "Most Improved Player." As for the 2007 Finals, Lebron and the Cavaliers got swept. The Spurs showed them how overrated of a team they were. He is a franchise player, I've never denied that. But once again, Lebron James is overrated. It doesn't mean that he's not good; it doesn't mean that he's not great. It means that his skill set is exaggerated.

4 hours ago, baxus said:

Bashing him on your perceived lack of his versatility also has no grounds in reality.

There really is no versatility. This is Lebron's offense: he's surrounded with spot up shooters that spread the floor where he draws in the defense and dunks/layup, draws the foul, or kicks it out to the outside shooter (Mario Chalmers, Shane Battier, Mike Miller, J.R. Smith, Channing Frye, Kevin Love, etc.) This was the case in all of his championship teams. Most teams will dare Lebron to shoot the ball from outside the paint. He's not a great free throw shooter; he's not a great shooter in general, so his offense is primarily rooted in driving. Though, to his credit, he did improve from the three point line this last season. As for defense, he's part of a team that ranked 22nd out of 30 in defense. It doesn't mean that he individually is a bad defender, but I've seen his defense and it's lazy. He can be seen yelling at his teammates (Irving, Love, Thompson) for failures in his defensive assignments. The idea that LeBron is versatile is a perception that has no grounds in reality.

4 hours ago, baxus said:

And I'm saying all that as someone who is not a LeBron fan, but only likes to give credit where credit is due.

Your not being a Lebron fan means nothing. Whether you're a fan or not, facts are facts. And I don't mind giving credit where it's due. I do mind however giving credit where it's undue.

4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

@Mother Cocanuts its fine to have different opinions, but you won't last long round here if you keep acting as you are.  You only have 54 posts and yet you've managed to wind everyone up in 2 different threads.  Take the advice or leave it, i don't care either way. 

What advice? All you've done is make an ambiguous reference to my "acting," and thought it fit to remind me of how many posts I have. Once again, I will not take responsibility for the emotional reactions of others. If everyone is "wound-up" over a discussion of basketball, that's their problem. And two different threads? I don't know what you're taking about.

[Argonath Diver]

I agree with Mother C. LeBron never won MIP or 6MotY. Red flags galore. Not a complete player.

[Mother Cocanuts]

12 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

I agree with Mother C.

It's Mother Cocanuts. It's not funny if you abbreviate it.

13 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

LeBron never won MIP or 6MotY. Red flags galore. Not a complete player.

No, LeBron isn't a "complete player" because his offense is one dimensional and he doesn't play the defense he used to. Once you look pass the straw men, it's not difficult to grasp.