NBA 2017: Fleecing the East and Kyrie to Boston

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I can't view the link. I'm sure he's went back and forth. But I've heard him just this year say how LeBron is the best player in the league and it's not even a question. And, really I don't care what Stephen A has to say, just giving an example. I could link you a clip of him saying that LeBron is the best in the league a few weeks after that clip when the Cavs won the Finals after being down 3-1. 

You think Curry can do as many things on the court and as well as LeBron? That's the answer I want. Is Curry one of the Top 5 in the league, of course. He can't guard his own shadow though. He IS a defensive liability. LeBron James isn't. Curry will go down as the greatest shooter ever, without a doubt. But no where near LBJ in terms of all-time greats. And I'll put money on that. Will you?

[briantw]

Curry deserved his MVP two years ago when he had one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time, but to say he's better than LeBron is absurd.  LeBron can play on both ends of the court.  Curry only has to play on one end.

Beyond that, we've had three straight Finals where Curry wasn't even the best player on his own team.  Meanwhile, LeBron was the best player overall in two of those Finals and the second best in the third.

[Mother Cocanuts]

32 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

And Stephen A. has been quick to say his peace about ESPN when there in the wrong. The one that I don't get about your argument is the claim that there is a conspiracy to make LBJ the best player at the moment. Why?

It's not a "conspiracy"; it's a marketing scheme. Once again, anything I've said here can be confirmed. Look it up. After Jordan's retirement from the NBA in 1998, NBA ratings plummeted. I mean, Allen Iverson was extremely popular but he was hated by David Stern. Then you start hearing about Lebron James, a high school kid being brought forth as "the next Michael Jordan," "the second coming," "and the chosen one." Now I'm not saying that Lebron James wasn't a great player even for a high school kid, but the marketing campaign even before his draft made it pretty clear that the NBA was looking to Lebron James as their new cash cow. Kobe wouldn't work because he was being overshadowed by Shaquille O'Neil. That's not to say that Kobe Bryant didn't make a lot of money for the NBA.

You ask why? Money.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

So, money made him the best player in the league for a decade? Not his all around game, 4 MVP's, 3 rings, 7 appearances and all the other accolades he earned? Come on, man. There is literally a new MJ, Montana, Gretzky and Jeter that's tried to be pushed as the next one. Happens all the time. Thing is, LeBron actually lived up to the hype and then some. For every LeBron, I can give you a 100 busts that they said the same thing about. Kwami Brown, Sebastian Telfar, Isaiah Rider and on and on and on. That's what they do. But, turnt out LeBron was the truth and was worth it all. They tried what your saying with dozens of other players, they just tanked. 

Then, you give Maithenet shit, saying he watches too much ESPN and you use a clip to provide evidence that Curry is better. When consensus in any NBA circles say LeBron has been the best player for a decade. He's backed it up with his play. Curry undoubtedly is the best shooter in the league, Durant the best offensive player and James the best All-Around player....maybe ever. He isn't Jordan, there will never be another Jordan or LeBron. Their all unique, and what makes one great is entirely different from the next. There is no conspiracy bud. He's just been the best player for a generation. And there is plenty of evidence to back it up. We've all have it to you in this thread. As I said, we'll just agree to disagree.

[Mother Cocanuts]

49 minutes ago, briantw said:

Curry deserved his MVP two years ago when he had one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time, but to say he's better than LeBron is absurd.  LeBron can play on both ends of the court.  Curry only has to play on one end.

The idea that Curry doesn't play defense is absurd.

Curry doesn't have to just play on one end of the floor. You can't have a team with the second highest defensive rating when your point guard slacks on defense. Do you think Popovich allows Tony Parker to slack on defense? Why would Kerr allow his point guard to? C'mon.

Second, Lebron can be a good defensive player. It doesn't mean that he has been. Again, the Cavaliers were rated 22nd in overall defense. And Lebron isn't even the best defender in his team.

59 minutes ago, briantw said:

Beyond that, we've had three straight Finals where Curry wasn't even the best player on his own team.  Meanwhile, LeBron was the best player overall in two of those Finals and the second best in the third.

That's just ignorant. Steph Curry averaged more points and assists than Iguodala in the 2015 Finals, and he was still his teams leading scorer in the 2016 Finals. And in the 2017 playoffs, Steph Curry was his teams leading scorer. It was fortunate that Durant missed 19 games in the regular season and a few in the playoffs. Fresh legs will do wonders. Even then, Curry almost averaged a triple double in the Finals with three other all-stars on his team.

[Mother Cocanuts]

22 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

So, money made him the best player in the league for a decade?

Yes.

22 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

 Not his all around game, 4 MVP's, 3 rings, 7 appearances and all the other accolades he earned?

He was marketed as the best to play since Jordan even before his 4 MVP's, 3 rings, and 7 straight Finals appearances. Acknowledging that only helps my point.

 

22 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Come on, man. There is literally a new MJ, Montana, Gretzky and Jeter that's tried to be pushed as the next one. Happens all the time. Thing is, LeBron actually lived up to the hype and then some. For every LeBron, I can give you a 100 busts that they said the same thing about. Kwami Brown, Sebastian Telfar, Isaiah Rider and on and on and on.

 

Kwame Brown was never talked about as the next Jordan, neither was Sebastian Telfair and Isaiah Rider, who started when Jordan was still in the league.

 

22 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Then, you give Maithenet shit, saying he watches too much ESPN and you use a clip to provide evidence that Curry is better. When consensus in any NBA circles say LeBron has been the best player for a decade. He's backed it up with his play. Curry undoubtedly is the best shooter in the league, Durant the best offensive player and James the best All-Around player....maybe ever. He isn't Jordan, there will never be another Jordan or LeBron. Their all unique, and what makes one great is entirely different from the next. There is no conspiracy bud. He's just been the best player for a generation. And there is plenty of evidence to back it up. We've all have it to you in this thread. As I said, we'll just agree to disagree.

Curry isn't just the best shooter in the league. He's one of the best ball handlers in the league; he's the most efficient from the paint; he's one of the best stealers in the league; he's one of the best deflectors in the league. He's a two time MVP, one being the first ever unanimous; he's a two-time champion; Curry isn't one dimensional like Lebron is. This idea that Lebron is the best all-around player is just fiction.

[BigFatCoward]

GM's select LeBron to be probable MVP. All those fools, why can't they see what the bloke on the internet can see?

[Relic]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

GM's select LeBron to be probable MVP. All those fools, why can't they see what the bloke on the internet can see?

On that note, here are my top 5 MVP candidate predictions -

1. Lebron

2. Durant

3. Harden

4. Greek Freak

5. Kat

A predictable top 3, with the Greek Freak cementing himself as a super start this year, and KAT coming out as the best big man in the league. Anyone have anything drastically different?  

[briantw]

22 minutes ago, Relic said:

On that note, here are my top 5 MVP candidate predictions -

1. Lebron

2. Durant

3. Harden

4. Greek Freak

5. Kat

A predictable top 3, with the Greek Freak cementing himself as a super start this year, and KAT coming out as the best big man in the league. Anyone have anything drastically different?  

I just don't see Durant having any shot at MVP while playing next to Curry.  They basically cancel each other out, and I think the lack of respect for what Durant did will keep him from winning any further MVP awards while he's on the Warriors.

LeBron has a legit shot this year due to Thomas likely being out for at least a month and likely more.  From what I've heard, the most optimistic projection is the end of November or early December.  Apparently he's been doing great since he started Cleveland's rehab program and that has been the cause of those projections, although it's possible they may hold him out a little longer just to be safe like they did with Kyrie coming off the knee injury.  

Harden and Westbrook are probably the top candidates.  Westbrook may suffer from the addition of Paul George in the eyes of the voters, although I suspect he'll be less likely to be hurt from that than LeBron was when he teamed with Wade or Durant and Curry when they teamed up because George isn't a fellow top five player (he's top twenty or so now, and was borderline top ten before the broken leg).

I don't think Milwaukee or Minnesota will win enough games to really warrant any MVP consideration.  Usually you need to be on one of the best teams in the league to win MVP unless you do something insane like Westbrook did and average a triple double.

I wouldn't sleep on Kawhi either.  The Spurs will almost certainly be one of the five best teams in the league and, unlike all the other guys I've talked about in this post, he doesn't have any other major stars beside him, at least assuming that Aldridge looks as bad as he did last year.

[Proudfeet]

54 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

GM's select LeBron to be probable MVP. All those fools, why can't they see what the bloke on the internet can see?

It's a conspiracy marketing scheme.

On that note, while I don't agree with Mother Cocanuts regarding LeBron, I do think the MVP is basically a pageant. It's all about who looks best. Also, LeBron might still be the best player, but again, it isn't about who is best and even if it were, I expect him to more or less coast through the regular season and not give his maximum effort until the playoffs, so he wouldn't be there in terms of results either.

[BigFatCoward]

MVP i imagine Lebron suffers as his numbers fall off a little due to him doing his best to integrate the new players.  Westbrook suffers because he can't possibly be as good as last year. Durrant because of jumping ship from a contender to an almost guaranteed victory. Harden loses numbers to CP3.

So i'm going for the Greek Freak, because he has made significant jumps forward every year, his stats this year could be the one of the most ridiculous lines ever.  Something like 27 points, 10 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals, 2.5 blocks per game (though obviously at some point he will plateau, i just don't think it will be yet). 

[Mother Cocanuts]

6 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

GM's select LeBron to be probable MVP. All those fools, why can't they see what the bloke on the internet can see?

They must be blind. It's not like they're ever wrong when they select Lebron to be MVP. And just to give it a little context, do you know why they chose him to be this upcoming season's MVP? Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, and Jimmy Butler have left the east. Not to mention, Kyrie has left the Cavaliers. I'm not making that up. If you read the story, you'd see that the context sort of discounts his "being the best"

 

As for MVP voting, I think that the top five candidates will be Kawhi Leonard, Kyrie Irving, Lebron James, Paul Milsap, and Karl Anthony Towns.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

The Greek Freak seems like the safest bet to win MVP to me. There are too many mouths to feed in Golden State, OKC and Minnesota, so I doubt Durant, Curry, Russ or KAT will win it. Harden’s numbers are going to drop too, and I’m not sure the Rockets will work with him and CP3 and a bunch of junk. Also, we can’t forget how strong LeBron fatigue is. The King should have like 7-10 MVPs by now if the award actually went to the real most valuable player. The Greek Freak will benefit from a unique role, no side pieces that will eat away at his stats and a super weak East. There’s a good chance Milwaukee finishes third.

[Tinker]

26 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The Greek Freak seems like the safest bet to win MVP to me. There are too many mouths to feed in Golden State, OKC and Minnesota, so I doubt Durant, Curry, Russ or KAT will win it. Harden’s numbers are going to drop too, and I’m not sure the Rockets will work with him and CP3 and a bunch of junk. Also, we can’t forget how strong LeBron fatigue is. The King should have like 7-10 MVPs by now if the award actually went to the real most valuable player. The Greek Freak will benefit from a unique role, no side pieces that will eat away at his stats and a super weak East. There’s a good chance Milwaukee finishes third.

He will be hindered by an awful coach though.

[Relic]

The problem with predicting Great Freak or KAT as the MVP boils down to past history. No player has ever gotten the reward without also being on a top 3 seeded team,  iirc. I'm much more comfortable picking a Harden or a Durant to win,  while giving some votes to the younger guys on lesser squads. 

Leaving Leonard off my list hurts,  but I'm not sure the Spurs can recover after getting ZaZa-ed last season. If they do I'll be mighty impressed. I love KL, and Pop. 

As for LeBron... I see him coasting this season,  and saving up his energy for the playoffs (and for playing on Houston next year). 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I'd throw Irving out there as a possibility. Should be his chance to shine a little brighter.

[briantw]

https://twitter.com/CavsFredMcLeod/status/915999473876086784

Wade clearly still getting used to playing for a team where the fans show up before halftime.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Relic said:

The problem with predicting Great Freak or KAT as the MVP boils down to past history. No player has ever gotten the reward without also being on a top 3 seeded team,  iirc. I'm much more comfortable picking a Harden or a Durant to win,  while giving some votes to the younger guys on lesser squads. 

You don't think the Bucks could be the three seed in the terrible, no good, rotten East? 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

https://twitter.com/CavsFredMcLeod/status/915999473876086784

Wade clearly still getting used to playing for a team where the fans show up before halftime.  

WRONG! The Heat fans show up on time, they're just in the bathrooms when the game starts dancing with the white lady.

[Relic]

33 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You don't think the Bucks could be the three seed in the terrible, no good, rotten East? 

Probably not,  but I'm not greatly. opposed to the idea.  Here how I see it currently: 

Celtics

Cavs

Wizards

Raptors

Hornets/Bucks/Heat