NBA 2017: Fleecing the East and Kyrie to Boston

[Sour Billy Tipton]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

You got to root for the guy, but I'd be nervous maxing out a big man with a back surgery, two foot surgeries and a knee surgery on his resume before his twenty third birthday.  

It's a rookie scale maximum, and there have been injury clauses mentioned in the deal.  I don't expect him to come close to earning 100 million out of that deal if he were to miss two seasons or more worth of games.

Note*  Just listened to Woj.  He explained that this could be the most unique contract in the history of the NBA.  It is not allowed for the NBA to have clauses with games played.  However, if Embiid were to suffer a catastrophic injury to his knees or his surgically repaired foot, the Sixers would waive him.  And Joel would earn around half of his $148 million contract.

[Calibandar]

On 10/5/2017 at 9:45 AM, Relic said:

On that note, here are my top 5 MVP candidate predictions -

1. Lebron

2. Durant

3. Harden

4. Greek Freak

5. Kat

A predictable top 3, with the Greek Freak cementing himself as a super start this year, and KAT coming out as the best big man in the league. Anyone have anything drastically different?  

Really hard to predict this year.

I think we're missing a few guys who will contend for top 5. Anthony Davis comes to mind. So does Kyrie Irving. Could Blake Griffin have a bounce back year that absolutely no one is expecting, now that he's the sole lead?

Like you I think LeBron will be coasting a fair bit in the regular season which will impact his nomination. At the same time Westbrook's role will decrease, unclear how much that will influence his nomination. Durant will be the best player on Golden State which means Curry doesn't win it, and Durant could, if he really excels. But of course he too has to share the ball with 3 other stars. Kahwi is an obvious candidate but I am not sure about him. Starts the season with a quad injury that has plagued him before, and I'm just not quite feeling it with him. I'm looking hard at Harden as a guy in peak form who just lost out last year and will still have a very big role for the Rockets this season. Question is, how dominant will he be?

I think Giannis will be astonishing for Milwaukee and with Jabari Parker back, that team could really rock in the second half of the season. He's an outsider though, I still don't see him winning MVP over all of these established guys that are also in their prime. Towns, I expect him to be great but more a top 10 candidate here. Maybe Butler will rank higher.

I think it'll be one of Durant, Harden or Westbrook.

[briantw]

10 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Really hard to predict this year.

I think we're missing a few guys who will contend for top 5. Anthony Davis comes to mind. So does Kyrie Irving. Could Blake Griffin have a bounce back year that absolutely no one is expecting, now that he's the sole lead?

Davis won't be on a team that's good enough for him to win MVP.

As for Irving, I think Hayward would be more likely to win it and will probably be that team's best player, and I don't think either guy is good enough to win MVP in general.  Both are second bananas.  

Griffin has no shot.  The Clippers won't be anywhere near good enough.

[Calibandar]

Most likely right about Davis and the Pelicans, why is why he'll be a contender but not win it. And that is IF he stays on the court for once. I admit I am intrigued by the Cousins/Davis twin towers combo.

Irving will be the best player on the Celtics team and I think he's more than a second banana.

 

[Sour Billy Tipton]

Well the true MVP is Kawhi Leonard.  If I had to pick one player in the NBA to build my franchise around, I wouldn't even hesitate in choosing the best two-way player in the league.  But, the MVP race is mostly predicated on PPG, so he will likely be behind guys like Harden, Westbrook, and Davis.

The Sixer fan in me dreams that Embiid will put up 28 minutes all season and average 28 points, 10 rebounds, and 3 blocks.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Strangely enough, I don't think a Warrior player has a real shot at the MVP unless they post insane numbers. Seems to me that the overall strength of that team is going to hamper any single player's shot at getting the award. 

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

The Sixer fan in me dreams that Embiid will put up 28 minutes all season and average 28 points, 10 rebounds, and 3 blocks.  

Maybe in 28 games... 

[Sour Billy Tipton]

35 minutes ago, Relic said:

Maybe in 28 games... 

Lol, well hopefully he saves 4-7 of those games for the 1st round of the playoffs.  I believe the Sixers have a great shot to get the 8th seed, while only winning 38 games in an abysmal Eastern Conference.

[Relic]

2 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Lol, well hopefully he saves 4-7 of those games for the 1st round of the playoffs.  I believe the Sixers have a great shot to get the 8th seed, while only winning 38 games in an abysmal Eastern Conference.

For what it's worth, I hope that happens. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I think if they stay healthy, The Sixers will be a higher seed than #8. maybe as high as 5 or 6.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

20 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I think if they stay healthy, The Sixers will be a higher seed than #8. maybe as high as 5 or 6.

Hell no, lol.  As much as I'd love to agree with you.  They are still extremely young.  And even if Embiid is healthy for the majority of the year, they have a backcourt comprised of Simmons and Fultz.  As historical and exciting as that sounds, to have the two most recent #1 picks operating as the guards, they are both rookies.  The Sixers will likely lead the league in turnovers.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I think if they stay healthy, The Sixers will be a higher seed than #8. maybe as high as 5 or 6.

Nope. It's a bunch of rookies, and JJ Redick. THis team won't be able to play a lick of defense. 

[briantw]

4 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Irving will be the best player on the Celtics team and I think he's more than a second banana.

I've watched the dude his entire NBA career.  He's a second banana.  He's not good enough to be the best player on a title team.  There's nothing wrong with that...lots of players aren't good enough to be the best player on a title team.  The guy he was traded for, Thomas, isn't either.  

I think a player needs to be capable of at least good defense to be the best player on a title team.  This is why, in both of the Finals' series that the Warriors won, someone besides Curry had to step up and be the best player for the Warriors.  In 2015, it was Iguodala.  In 2017, Durant carried them.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

This is the East we are talking about fellas. I suppose I might be buying into the hype a bit too much, but look at 6-8 in the East last season. It's not going to take much. Chicago has been neutered. Indiana? Atlanta? They should be better than any of those 3 teams.  

[Sour Billy Tipton]

Miami could be a top 4 seed in the East.  A bunch of the lottery teams will be kicking themselves for passing on Bam Adebayo.  

And I've been calling it for months now, Lebron WILL return to Miami.  

And once again I will be fueled with hatred towards the Miami "fans" who text during the entire game while sitting court-side.

[Calibandar]

Do not forget Dario Saric, this guy has real skill. 

Embiid looked solid this week in his first game in 7 years btw. Very much hope he stays on the floor for what could be a very spectacular Sixers team. Would not a starting line-up of Simmons, Redick, Covington, Saric and Embiid make more sense btw? I mean, you'd have Redick over Fultz at this point in their respective careers, it allows Saric into the line-up and Fultz can dominate the second unit.

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

And once again I will be fueled with hatred towards the Miami "fans" who text during the entire game while sitting court-side.

Well, not the entire game.  They don't show up until midway through the second quarter.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

18 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Do not forget Dario Saric, this guy has real skill. 

Embiid looked solid this week in his first game in 7 years btw. Very much hope he stays on the floor for what could be a very spectacular Sixers team. Would not a starting line-up of Simmons, Redick, Covington, Saric and Embiid make more sense btw? I mean, you'd have Redick over Fultz at this point in their respective careers, it allows Saric into the line-up and Fultz can dominate the second unit.

That lineup is the most practical and gives them the best shot at winning, yes.  But you do not have the number 1 pick come of the bench.  Simmons and Fultz are the backcourt, there will be a ton of turnovers, and miscommunication.  Rookies make mistakes, it's part of the learning process.  

And Saric is a ridiculous competitor who deserved ROTY.  Truly a jack of all trades master of none.  But in no way is that a slight on his playing.  The kid looks like a veteran talent out there, a true European talent that uses old school basketball skills to dominate players who rely only on their God given athleticism and size.

[Mother Cocanuts]

33 minutes ago, briantw said:

I've watched the dude his entire NBA career.  He's a second banana.  He's not good enough to be the best player on a title team.  There's nothing wrong with that...lots of players aren't good enough to be the best player on a title team.  The guy he was traded for, Thomas, isn't either.

He's not a second banana. (I've watched his entire career, too.) The Cleveland Cavaliers since Lebron left in 2010 had been tanking seasons in order to obtain high draft picks in order to give Lebron "pieces" for when he'd eventually return, i.e. Kyrie Irving, and Andrew Wiggins traded for Kevin Love. Kyrie Irving has never really been given a chance to excel because of the Cavaliers' style of play, which is pretty much Lebron-centric. I think on the Celtics with a good coach like Brad Stevens, Kyrie will be demanded to play more than just isolation offense. And if you've watched his preseason games, you'd know that he's more than willing to step up to that challenge. Only time will tell.

39 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think a player needs to be capable of at least good defense to be the best player on a title team.  This is why, in both of the Finals' series that the Warriors won, someone besides Curry had to step up and be the best player for the Warriors.  In 2015, it was Iguodala.  In 2017, Durant carried them.  

First, Curry is "capable of at least 'good defense.'" (Refer to the video I posted before, if you don't believe me.) Second, Curry was the best player on his team in the 2015 Finals. He should have won the Finals MVP that year. Third, Durant didn't "carry them." Here are the stats of the four all-stars in the 2017 Finals:

Kevin Durant: 35.2 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.0 STLs, 1.6 BLKs

Stephen Curry: 26.8 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 9.4 APG, 2.2 STLs, 0.0 BLKs.

Klay Thompson: 16.4 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 2.2 APG, 0.2 STLs, 0.2 BLKs.

Draymond Green: 11.0 PPG, 10.2 RPG, 4.8 APG, 1.6 STLs, 0.6 BLKs.

Durant got so many looks and feeds in the 2017 Finals because the Cavaliers couldn't double-team both Curry and Durant, fearing that it would leave Klay or Draymond open at the perimeter. Cavaliers have always planned to lock up Curry because they knew he's the more lethal scorer. (Once he gets hot, you can't stop him -- ask the Timberwolves.) The reason why Kevin Durant average 35 points is because he's playing with Curry, Thompson, and Green. He didn't "carry them." They facilitate his offense. And if you watched their offensive schemes, you'd know that suggesting Durant carried them is grossly misinformed. As for Kevin Durant's defense, he and Curry are quite similar when it comes to on-ball defense.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

Curry and Durant aren't similar when it comes to any aspect of defense.  

Doesn't really matter though, that team is filled with great perimeter defenders who make up for Curry's slight frame.  And now they've added Jordan Bell who will eventually be able to defend 1-5 in todays NBA.  

Nothing against Curry, they're the champs and they will win again this year.  But if you take away those 20 point leads, Draymond, Iggy, and Thompson, you wouldn't see an emboldened defender in Curry who finishes in the top 10 in steals.