The Unholy Consult post-release SPOILER thread IV

[jurble]

Huh, no, she blasted her way out of Ishterebinth, but she didn't kill them all.  How else would the Quya come to the Ordeal's aid? 

 

Presumably the non-sorcerers like Oinuras stayed back.   And so long as the Emwama keep feeding the Nonmen zombies, they're gonna live indefinitely.

[Kalbear]

8 minutes ago, Ajûrbkli said:

Huh, no, she blasted her way out of Ishterebinth, but she didn't kill them all.  How else would the Quya come to the Ordeal's aid? 

 

Presumably the non-sorcerers like Oinuras stayed back.   And so long as the Emwama keep feeding the Nonmen zombies, they're gonna live indefinitely.

Well, Serwa and the few intact and the rest might have killed all the ones allied with the Consult. It's really not clear.

Do we actually see any of the Nonmen from the battle at TUC in TGO?

[unJon]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Well, Serwa and the few intact and the rest might have killed all the ones allied with the Consult. It's really not clear.

Do we actually see any of the Nonmen from the battle at TUC in TGO?

I thought the lord of swans guy was there. Could be misremembering. 

[unJon]

1 hour ago, Ajûrbkli said:

Huh, no, she blasted her way out of Ishterebinth, but she didn't kill them all.  How else would the Quya come to the Ordeal's aid? 

 

Presumably the non-sorcerers like Oinuras stayed back.   And so long as the Emwama keep feeding the Nonmen zombies, they're gonna live indefinitely.

Huh. So the "pigs" that the Nonmen were eating were Emwama not really pigs. I like that. Haven't heard anyone suggest that before. But roasted nonmen smells like lamb and roasted man smells like pork so I can see it. 

[unJon]

Can we title the next thread "No Happy Ending in the Golden Room" or is that violate spoiler policy?

[redjako]

3 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Actually, Bakker has had funny moments with Achiaman. His jnanic line at meeting Saccarrees was pretty good - and you are?

"Fucking Aioni." always got me.

Have to say that as a huge fan of Bakker (with 6-8 or so re-reads of both series, but not TuC), the last book was a bit of a let down for a lot of the reasons hashed out in the multiple threads.

However, I did like the actual siege of Gilgoal, but it felt choppy (like most of the book did, choppy). One choppiness: the description of the Great Ordeal still being "the shining men" and how they girded up their faith, etc. It didn't jive with how poisoned the entirety of the army felt after the cannibalistic orgy. The book felt disjointed like it was cut/pasted quite a bit, and probably hurt the flow (didn't someone mention that an early draft had a LOT more internal Kellhus dialogue? I would have loved that, because then we would have actually seen how he ultimately failed despite his power and intellect, instead of having to piece together the God possessing vs (my initial thought), that Kellhus had possessed the god).

I'll still check out the new series, but Kalbear had a good point of "it didn't feel like all of the theories and discussion mattered, because it ultimately came down to nothing." Paraphrased, though I think Kalbear tends to be more harsh then I agree with in almost every point*.

 

*long time lurker/reader of these forums for the last 6-8 years.

[Hello World]

1 hour ago, redjako said:

didn't someone mention that an early draft had a LOT more internal Kellhus dialogue?

I missed that if it's true. I actually don't remember if Kellhus had any PoVs in this book at all. But that would have been a good idea, now that you mention it. People have said that he added the doll's PoV into the book because he didn't want to give us Kellhus's PoV. That would be too revelatory, but why? If this is supposedly the book where the g-string shoots across the room why not give us the Golden Room (at least) from Kellhus's PoV? Is it because he wanted to keep Kellhus's thoughts vague and ambiguous for some pretentious philosophical reason or that he couldn't execute a Kellhus PoV for this book properly and inserted the severed head PoV as a cop out?

[jurble]

2 hours ago, unJon said:

Huh. So the "pigs" that the Nonmen were eating were Emwama not really pigs. I like that. Haven't heard anyone suggest that before. But roasted nonmen smells like lamb and roasted man smells like pork so I can see it. 

Wait what, no.  Oirunal says that the Emwama feed the Reduced.  I think the Emwama raise pigs along with all the agricultural necessities of the Mansion.  The Boatman is only in charge of feeding the guys in the deepest dark.

[unJon]

44 minutes ago, Ajûrbkli said:

Wait what, no.  Oirunal says that the Emwama feed the Reduced.  I think the Emwama raise pigs along with all the agricultural necessities of the Mansion.  The Boatman is only in charge of feeding the guys in the deepest dark.

Great, then it can be my theory and I don't need to credit you. 

[jurble]

I  mean, Sorweel would notice the pigs were people, right?  There was an earlier scene where Kellhus clearly feeds Proyas human, but Proyas thinks it's pork.   But the Boatman is just tossing out carcasses, and Oirunas has a collection of pig skulls (though with the Emwama's deformation..)

[lokisnow]

I will accept Kals proviso that Bakker isn't as much a troll as I (trollishly) assert, because I like the philosophical vs narrative binary kal is establishing.

just so it's clear to everyone, I am obviously working my way backward from a conclusion and wildly revising  and misinterpreting to fit everything into said conclusion. Because I'm human. it's what we do. But because my reasoning is suspect and likely invalid doesn't  mean Im rejecting what I think, stopped clocks and all that.

[unJon]

5 hours ago, Ajûrbkli said:

I  mean, Sorweel would notice the pigs were people, right?  There was an earlier scene where Kellhus clearly feeds Proyas human, but Proyas thinks it's pork.   But the Boatman is just tossing out carcasses, and Oirunas has a collection of pig skulls (though with the Emwama's deformation..)

Emwama deformation plus Amiolas messing with his head? I'd need to go back and re-read to see if anything there. 

[Hello World]

 

Quote

And, as you and others constant angst shows you are butthurt. Alt-Butthurt that is.

Apologies if there were any alts that I missed. I just feel like all your posts since the AMA are you starting fights (something I'm guilty of too I think) and making random accusations and shouting at people to provide you with links to things that you made up. I could use your same routine and say that you and Bakker's other fanboys (including all the sockpuppets) are just butthurt that their favorite author is being criticized, and they've bought into this whole "it's not Bakker's fault" knee jerk reaction. It reminded me of the post linked recently here where an author says that Bakker claimed his books aren't misogynistic, our brains are just hardwired in the wrong way. Cool. 

On a side note, I went to TSA yesterday to see what you were going on about and the first thing I saw was a thread called "making the community better". I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. 

Eta. Also, some of his fanboys have spent too much time around Bakker that they've come to see his online behavior (trolling, lying, alts/sockpuppets) as normal or funny when it's not. I mean someone said recently here that he was never rude to me personally. Well, we don't know each other personally and we only interact through the forum, and lying to people repeatedly and over extended periods of time is not cool, in fact a lot of people would see it as rude as hell, not sure if Bakker falls in that category.

This reminds me that I almost forgot about Pierce Inverarity.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

No, no. You guys have repeatedly pointed to the AMA as your disappointment in the series. I can go and quote all of them. But, I don't have to, you already know this. Its so funny, your gonna argue with me either way. You've all been complaining that the AMA ruined the books. When I bring it up and ask why and to provide a link for your angst, you then say no, it's not the AMA it's that we're upset we didn't get answers. Its hilarious. Darth Richard has made a living in this thread pouting to the AMA, as others. Yet, no one can show why the AMA ruined it. 

Oh, your not a fanboy, all of you who've spent a years and thousand of posts on these thread? Your a different breed, huh? What a joke. All I was trying to do was revert the conversation back to the books, in the beginning. But, I kept getting directed to the AMA and how it ruined everything, but still no proof of that. 

Have fun in your little echo chamber here at Westeros. Were you pay each other on the back, gang up on people with views other than your own. So, funny. Never heard of a echo chamber before, when I did, first thought was Westeros. In every respect. Political, Bakker or whatever. Lets all agree and when someone comes in with a different view let's degrade him, rip his arguments to shreds by picking and choosing what we wanna talk about. A joke. Pure joke. Its why Trump won and why he'll win again, because of people like these. Your too dumb to listen to the other side. In any regards. And, it's sad, so sad. Your misery and close mindness shows on all levels. Just pay each other on the back fellows 

[unJon]

2 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

No, no. You guys have repeatedly pointed to the AMA as your disappointment in the series. I can go and quote all of them. But, I don't have to, you already know this. Its so funny, your gonna argue with me either way. You've all been complaining that the AMA ruined the books. When I bring it up and ask why and to provide a link for your angst, you then say no, it's not the AMA it's that we're upset we didn't get answers. Its hilarious. Darth Richard has made a living in this thread pouting to the AMA, as others. Yet, no one can show why the AMA ruined it. 

Oh, your not a fanboy, all of you who've spent a years and thousand of posts on these thread? Your a different breed, huh? What a joke. All I was trying to do was revert the conversation back to the books, in the beginning. But, I kept getting directed to the AMA and how it ruined everything, but still no proof of that. 

Have fun in your little echo chamber here at Westeros. Were you pay each other on the back, gang up on people with views other than your own. So, funny. Never heard of a echo chamber before, when I did, first thought was Westeros. In every respect. Political, Bakker or whatever. Lets all agree and when someone comes in with a different view let's degrade him, rip his arguments to shreds by picking and choosing what we wanna talk about. A joke. Pure joke. Its why Trump won and why he'll win again, because of people like these. Your too dumb to listen to the other side. In any regards. And, it's sad, so sad. Your misery and close mindness shows on all levels. Just pay each other on the back fellows 

There's like a discussion of the book going on between all these derailment posts (from both sides of the debate).

It's like the stages of grief, just let it play out.

And I'm nearly sure in the prior thread that there's a @Kalbear post that quotes the various answers from the AMA that people here are reacting to. 

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I was just reacting to Kalbear and Hello Worlds posts. Sorry, unJon. I'm done. Done with the thread.

[Ran]

Stay civil to one another, folks, and lets not make this about one another.

[Darth Richard II]

16 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

No, no. You guys have repeatedly pointed to the AMA as your disappointment in the series. I can go and quote all of them. But, I don't have to, you already know this. Its so funny, your gonna argue with me either way. You've all been complaining that the AMA ruined the books. When I bring it up and ask why and to provide a link for your angst, you then say no, it's not the AMA it's that we're upset we didn't get answers. Its hilarious. Darth Richard has made a living in this thread pouting to the AMA, as others. Yet, no one can show why the AMA ruined it. 

Oh, your not a fanboy, all of you who've spent a years and thousand of posts on these thread? Your a different breed, huh? What a joke. All I was trying to do was revert the conversation back to the books, in the beginning. But, I kept getting directed to the AMA and how it ruined everything, but still no proof of that. 

Have fun in your little echo chamber here at Westeros. Were you pay each other on the back, gang up on people with views other than your own. So, funny. Never heard of a echo chamber before, when I did, first thought was Westeros. In every respect. Political, Bakker or whatever. Lets all agree and when someone comes in with a different view let's degrade him, rip his arguments to shreds by picking and choosing what we wanna talk about. A joke. Pure joke. Its why Trump won and why he'll win again, because of people like these. Your too dumb to listen to the other side. In any regards. And, it's sad, so sad. Your misery and close mindness shows on all levels. Just pay each other on the back fellows 

OK look, I am aware of the hypocrisy and irony of me saying this, but you have to stop with the insults. It helps nobody and it takes away from any validness any argument you try and make.

You accused me of dodging a question and demanded I not parrot kalbear, and I did so, three times, and you still kept accusing me, then disappeared for a bit, because, well I dunno. I can you show you screenshots and timestamps where I answer the damn question three times. (Maybe four, I don't feel like backtracking through that mess). You come in here, demand answers, and when you don't like them, start screaming and throwing insults around. It makes you look crazy, honestly. And as long as I'm being hypocritical, we can tell when you're getting really upset, your spelling starts to get real weird.

As for the echo chamber accusation, if you think TSA forum is any less of an echo chamber then here, well, I dunno what to tell you. Bakker has the whole thing about how tribe thinking is bad that I should see if I can pull up, cause damn, that's irony.

(Also, I would quit it with the Trump stuff, unless you're trying to get banned, in which case good luck)

[Hello World]

43 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

All I was trying to do was revert the conversation back to the books, in the beginning.

No you weren't. In fact the first post that you made after over a week of not posting here (and the one that started this argument) was this:

Quote

I went over AMA and never seen any statement by Bakker that all theories and such were meaningless. Just that meaningless (TNG) was brought into a meaningful world. Granted, in not saying he didn't say it, I could of missed it. Could someone link it please?

And it was pointed out that no one made the claim that Bakker said all the theories are meaningless, yet you keep trolling. The rest of your post and insults are childish as usual.

By the way, it's perfectly fine for people to discuss the AMA here and express any sort of disappointment they have with what Bakker said without being shouted at and accused of "butthurtness" and other schoolyard things. (Unless I'm wrong about this and the "don't discuss what's posted on other forums rule" applies to reddit, in which case I apologize.) And people have said over and over what they didn't like about the AMA.

[Darth Richard II]

@Michael Seswatha Jordan Still waiting for the post where I say I don't understand the point of the Ark.