Callan S. Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 9 hours ago, unJon said: Thanks for the link! Bakker isn't endorsing the God dreaming vividly world view of anarcane ground there. He says "some" take the following analogy. At least that's how I read it. YMMV Barring no explanation at all, it's pretty much the cutting edge of explanations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, lokisnow said: The Troll Theory (tm)of Bakker's online presence states that any information dessiminated extra-textually is information intended to troll fans because trolling is fun. That AMA really shattered some dreams there. The thing I don't get is that while the series is kind of a different spin on LOTR and Dune, people are perhaps letting go of their own spin on things just because the AMA said they weren't applicable. "Respect all the prophesies...even the false ones" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Oh there are certainly people that can't let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 The Bakker as Troll theory is axiomatic at this point. Remember when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) that he'd been reading DeLillo and described it as 'trying to find meaning in a meaningless world' and how he wanted to write the opposite? If only we had realized what it would mean for the series to actually be 'trying to write a meaningless story in a meaningful world'. Totally true, but total troll move. I hope he at least got a few laughs out of all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I don't think Bakker is capable of laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Wait just a second, let's just look at the list of ingredients on the back of the book...oh shit, it doesn't list 'Meaning'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Callan S. said: Wait just a second, let's just look at the list of ingredients on the back of the book...oh shit, it doesn't list 'Meaning'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Also, honestly, you don't get how a place with literally THOUSANDS of posts dedicated to finding hidden meaning in ever WORD PLACEMENT of EVERY SENTENCE in a series might be a tad upset to find out it was all meaningless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I didn't to begin with - there's just this misery train goin' on for some reason. Okay, so what's the big meaningful in the lord of the rings series? As a way of describing what you're looking for? Apart from the happy ending? Or imagine if Sauron won - would that make LOTR meaningless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronzag Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Callan S. said: I didn't to begin with - there's just this misery train goin' on for some reason. Okay, so what's the big meaningful in the lord of the rings series? As a way of describing what you're looking for? Apart from the happy ending? Or imagine if Sauron won - would that make LOTR meaningless? LOTR is a straight up fantasy tale that never claims to be anything more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I went over AMA and never seen any statement by Bakker that all theories and such were meaningless. Just that meaningless (TNG) was brought into a meaningful world. Granted, in not saying he didn't say it, I could of missed it. Could someone link it please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: I went over AMA and never seen any statement by Bakker that all theories and such were meaningless. No, people just realized that a lot of theorizing was pointless because many plot lines were left unresolved (and were not intended to be resolved in the first place per the AMA) including major character arcs. When people asked what the point of some of these plot lines was Bakker said that we should "cue our meaning making instincts", which is a fancy way of saying come up with your own meaning. No offense, but you're strawmaning and conflating two issues. He did not say that our theories were meaningless (I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Hello World said: No, people just realized that a lot of theorizing was pointless because many plot lines were left unresolved (and were not intended to be resolved in the first place per the AMA) including major character arcs. When people asked what the point of some of these plot lines was Bakker said that we should "cue our meaning making instincts", which is a fancy way of saying come up with your own meaning. No offense, but you're strawmaning and conflating two issues. He did not say that our theories were meaningless (I think). I'm not conflating anything. The premise around here is that from that AMA you guys are saying Bakker says that all arcs are meaningless. And, I found that no where. Which is why I asked for a link, which was not provided. See, this is my point, of the books are not finished and these plot lines so much complained about, Akka, Mimara and Esme along with others. And, they are all still alive, why is it that they're meaningless? They've yet to be finished. This isn't me "not letting go" as is the common response. This is common sense. What it took from his finding meaning in those arcs, is up to you. He's not going to spell it out, just wants to offer a different take on it. They're not finished. It seems the ones conflating anything regarding everything being meaningless is quite a few in this thread. So, again, provide me a link. Or, its you who is conflating to conjure up a reason for your dislike of this aspect of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: I'm not conflating anything. The premise around here is that from that AMA you guys are saying Bakker says that all arcs are meaningless. And, I found that no where. No, that's what my last post was about. And you're conflating the charge that some arcs/plotlines were pointless because they didn't lead anywhere or at the very least weren't resolved while Bakker says he has no grand plan for the next series and that we should cue our meaning making instincts etc with another issue which is that some people feel a lot of the theorizing over the years was pointless because the depth that they assumed existed in the series was either unintended or a result of misreading and too much obsession. In fact, the accusation in your last two posts went from "he said all the theories are meaningless" to "he said all the arcs are meaningless". I think there is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: It just seems to me as alt of butthurt that your favorite theories were shit You can keep moving goalposts and making things up as you go along. Sure, Achamian and Mimara and Esmenet not doing anything inportant in TUC is just me being butthurt that my theories aren't true... As an aside, I couldn't help but chuckle at the fact that you accidentally typed "alt of butthurt" in your above post. If someone wants to come back to the forum this should be their next account's name for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeagl Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 15 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said: Man, I feel like I'm watching a tiny, self-contained version of what's going to happen in the General ASoIaF section when ADoS finally comes out and everyone realizes that 90% of these borderline peer-reviewed theories they've been writing based on incidental turns of phrase are wrong. Hodor is not the Great Other, Stannis won't be the next Night's King, the black stone featured in all these little sections of TWoIaF is just a meaningless Lovecraft reference, etc. Maybe George really is sitting on the next few books, and he's doing it because he knows it's all that's keeping the madness contained... Except that TUC isn't the final book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeagl Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said: Didn't say that it was. Comparing ADoS to TUC. Being disappointed that TUC wasn't a conclusion makes zero sense. It's like complaining that book 7 of Wheel Of Time doesn't conclude the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 17 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said: the black stone featured in all these little sections of TWoIaF is just a meaningless Lovecraft reference, etc. Westeros is Earwa millions of years in the future. The Seastone Chair is the remnants of the Sarcophagus. Euron is the No-God. When Achamian dreamed the brutalized man, it wasn't Nau-Cayuti, it was Theon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 The fact that GRRM read PoN and liked it, and Bakker's publishers never used that as a blurb is one of the greatest failures in publishing history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 3 hours ago, redeagl said: Comparing ADoS to TUC. Being disappointed that TUC wasn't a conclusion makes zero sense. It's like complaining that book 7 of Wheel Of Time doesn't conclude the series. That's not right. Bakker is writing a series composed of trilogies or dualogies (as is the current plan for TNG). That's different than an 8 book series. I've seen straw mans on both sides of this argument, but your post is one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.