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Why Jon and Danys relation is neither forced, rushed nor fanfic. (long post)


MinscS2

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I thought I clicked on the General (ASoIaF) section when I saw this, so you can imagine how worried I was.

Their relationship doesn't really fit with Jon's character that well imo, also the actors have 0 chemistry.
I would find it more compelling if we saw Jon's opinion, or inner turmoil over having a relationship after both Ygritte's death and his own.

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5 hours ago, Snormund said:

Not reading the post because it IS forced and rushed. Not to mention Jon is acting completely out of character. I have no issue with Jon finding her hot; that's in character, Jon is interested in women. What I have an issue with is Jon selling out the North so he can have sex with someone he finds hot. Completely out of character. Maybe it would make sense if this was Robb. It would definitely make sense for Theon. But not Jon. He has barely interacted with Dany, and she has been a stuck-up jerk to him most of the time he's known her. I can see Jon secretly having sexual fantasies about her for sure (as many men would, Dany is hot obviously), but there is no way in hell he would be embarrassing himself and begging for her like a lost puppy the way he is. It's an insult to Jon's character and I hate seeing him be made into a pathetic joke. 

 

If they wanted Jon to fall in love with her, they should have established a rapport like he did with Ygritte. Jon is not a sex hungry idiot and I resent him being portrayed as such. 

Let's be honest, Jon and Dany were seen from miles away. Predictable yes, and unfortunately very cliché. Not to mention the whole plot seems to be revolving only around them and their (probably) expected baby lately. Other great characters are being reduced to having side-roles because of that.

So yeah, I would've hoped that their joining would have been a bit more.....realistic. It felt rushed, no matter the so called time lapse between scenes and episodes. Jon could have shown a little bit more restraint when it comes to Dany's charms, but he became as easy as all the other men when it comes to her.

Disappointed by Jon.

 

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2 hours ago, DireKiwi said:

Disappointed by Jon.

For me, what was "forced, rushed" is his "bending the knee". Not because of ego problems. But because of committing himself AND THE NORTH to a woman he barely knows. She is the Mad King's daughter. she had been so far won't to burn people. Worse, feed them to her children. Even Tyrion and Varys are questioning her capability to make the right choices.

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7 hours ago, DireKiwi said:

Let's be honest, Jon and Dany were seen from miles away. Predictable yes, and unfortunately very cliché. Not to mention the whole plot seems to be revolving only around them and their (probably) expected baby lately. Other great characters are being reduced to having side-roles because of that.

So yeah, I would've hoped that their joining would have been a bit more.....realistic. It felt rushed, no matter the so called time lapse between scenes and episodes. Jon could have shown a little bit more restraint when it comes to Dany's charms, but he became as easy as all the other men when it comes to her.

Disappointed by Jon.

 

Agree with most of this.  But what charms? Dany didn't even really try to seduce him or anything. the whole thing is just forced and silly.  

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This show really and truly confuses me. According to the show, Jon and Dany are in love, and it's obvious to all the characters in the show. Okay. It's been a minimal effort by the show at best. I think it must be one of two things. Either the show was too lazy and arrogant to put the time and effort in because they thought the audience already knows the characters and Kit and Emilia are hot. The thinking here is just put them in a room and we'll buy it. That is cheap and wrong. They always like to preach about story telling. I am not a writer, but even I know that introducing a relationship between two characters is complex and almost like introducing a new character completely. I don't know if that is what these show people did, but what a shame if it is what happened. To think that the ultimate GOT couple gets this kind of shabby treatment is despicable. Now the other alternative is that these show runners don't want us invested in this couple because this is not the ultimate GOT couple. This couple may be in store for some kind of conflict and this conflict is what is important for the audience to focus in on. 

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The romance was certainly rushed (the whole of season 7 was much faster than previous seasons), but it didn't seem forced to me. It is possible to be instantly attracted to someone. And while it might not be in Jon's character to act upon things so quickly, people change. People can try something different from their previous relationships. And Jon was resurrected, and the world might soon come to an end if the NK wins. So it's not hard to believe under such circumstances that their romance progressed faster.

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On 8/24/2017 at 5:56 AM, MinscS2 said:

Their feelings for eachother at this point also makes sense; they have a lot of things in common (que mandatory "including genes"-joke).
They've both had a long and arduous journey to get to this point.

I have concluded myself that I have no issues with the relationship. They are both young and attractive and of decent character. They both have been sexually starved a bit. Hell, it would be unrealistic if they didn't hook up rather fast. 

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Just now, Bear Claw said:

This show really and truly confuses me. According to the show, Jon and Dany are in love, and it's obvious to all the characters in the show. Okay. It's been a minimal effort by the show at best. I think it must be one of two things. Either the show was too lazy and arrogant to put the time and effort in because they thought the audience already knows the characters and Kit and Emilia are hot. The thinking here is just put them in a room and we'll buy it. That is cheap and wrong. They always like to preach about story telling. I am not a writer, but even I know that introducing a relationship between two characters is complex and almost like introducing a new character completely. I don't know if that is what these show people did, but what a shame if it is what happened. To think that the ultimate GOT couple gets this kind of shabby treatment is despicable. Now the other alternative is that these show runners don't want us invested in this couple because this is not the ultimate GOT couple. This couple may be in store for some kind of conflict and this conflict is what is important for the audience to focus in on. 

yes. The wall fell down for a reason after their sex scene.

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5 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

The romance was certainly rushed (the whole of season 7 was much faster than previous seasons), but it didn't seem forced to me. It is possible to be instantly attracted to someone. And while it might not be in Jon's character to act upon things so quickly, people change. People can try something different from their previous relationships. And Jon was resurrected, and the world might soon come to an end if the NK wins. So it's not hard to believe under such circumstances that their romance progressed faster.

Exactly ( bolded ). Nice reply. 

I thought they had chemistry, it was understated but it was there. I thought it was fitting for their characters,as OP stated. 

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and the attraction was mutual in a way neither have really felt before. jon's only experience was ygritte, so maybe he is a little wiser in this particular courtship, but for dany? her history is drogo, daario, and ser jorah friendzone. drogo was more or less stockholm syndrome, forcing herself to love drogo, especially after she got pregnant, because she figured that was going to be her lot in life, to be drogo's khaleesi. daario charmed his way into her bed, and he was certainly fun to be with, a pleasant distraction from the rigors of trying to rule merren, but in the end she didnt feel anything for him beyond maybe a mild friendship? and then jorah the friend. i think dany saw in jorah the kind of person viserys should have been, that protective old brother figure, in her life. then heres jon. he isnt trying to woo her, he isnt trying to command her. he is defiant, but respectful. he is honest. and he earned the respect of his people the same way she earned it among the dothraki and unsullied and the of slaver's bay. i think in many ways they mirror each other in subtle ways. the things that were said to them, about having good hearts, about the nature of ruling and command, about belief, reflect in each other.

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  • 6 months later...
On 25.8.2017 at 7:23 PM, iprayiam said:

Your giant analysis is addressing all the wrong points. I don't think the issue for most people is that the characters Jon and Danaeyrs don't have any reason to like each other or be romantically interested, which is what you basically defended.

The problems is that the onscreen chemistry isn't there for three reasons

1. The acting. They're both too wooden and expressionless. Neither has the range to play subtle flirt and banter beneath a mask of stubborn indifference. Instead everything feels wooden and forced by the actors (again not the characters).

2. The temperaments being portrayed. (This is a combination of acting and writing) It worked with Ygritte  and Jon because fiery extrovert plays well off of introverted and angsty.

Similarly, naive girl learning to become headstrong and independent played well against older, more confident man (Drogo, Jorah, and that other useless guy).

3 The script and directing don't help. Again it's not about seconds on screen or amount on time in world. This issue is related closely to the others, but basically we have to be told by other characters that they're looking at each other. We don't see the looks, the smiles or the time together with sparks flying. We are told about them directly on screen by supporting characters. That doesn't happen with any other romance in the show.

The characters might be perfect for each other. But the portrayal is too forced.

I agree that the onscreen chemistry does not work. I've seen plenty of discussions about the acting, but noone seems to mention the fact that Kit and Emilia used to date. I think the problem might stem from them being exes, and thus not being able to portray the romance convincingly (they are maybe afraid to "go there"). 

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20 hours ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

I agree that the onscreen chemistry does not work. I've seen plenty of discussions about the acting, but noone seems to mention the fact that Kit and Emilia used to date. I think the problem might stem from them being exes, and thus not being able to portray the romance convincingly (they are maybe afraid to "go there"). 

No one mentions it because it's a false rumor. Kit and Emilia have never dated, at least according to themselves, and why would they lie about something like that?

They are very good friends however.

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