JMMapelwood

What is the role of Gendry?

178 posts in this topic

21 minutes ago, Daske said:

Gendry is back so that he can forge the white walker spear-proof dragon armour Drogon wears when he takes down Viserion.

I can live in hope anyway. D&D please read this. Make it happen!

 

I won't say it wouldn't be practical

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On 29/08/2017 at 2:46 PM, Graydon Hicks said:

actually davos is the proof. he was their when stannis acknowledge gendry as roberts's bastard and his own nephew. and its not like there many people left who are going to challenge the ruling of jon and dany.

But it still comes down to Davos' word.  He wasn't actually there when Gendry was born, he didn't know Robert or Gendry's mother.  His word doesn't carry much weight because all his info is second or third hand.

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Continuing the Baratheon line. Maybe end up with Arya aswell.

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Gendry's role is a mystery to me. Reawakening such an almost-forgotten character can be just for the sake of having some known men fighting the battle -- or he could have a much more important role.

He's a blacksmith and we wait for some "promised prince" or "Azor Ahai" to use a special sword. So maybe he is involved in forging or repairing such an endtime-sword. Or realising that the dagger is more than it seems. Or something like that.

I cannot see Arya having a romance at the moment. She is still a child, into puberty, not a single clue dropped pointing towards Arya as woman. Not at all. I cannot imagine her as "lady" or "wife". 

However, I buy into the story arc "Arya turning West of Westeros". This clue was dropped clearly and it would make a lot of sense, because Arya is not the princess or queen type nor the typical emporer. She is wild and looks for adventure. I would love it to see her survive and travelling to new adventures. With Gendry? Maybe so, maybe not, not really important.

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9 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

...

However, I buy into the story arc "Arya turning West of Westeros". This clue was dropped clearly and it would make a lot of sense, because Arya is not the princess or queen type nor the typical emporer. She is wild and looks for adventure. I would love it to see her survive and travelling to new adventures. With Gendry? Maybe so, maybe not, not really important.

If this happens I think it will be with Nymeria rather than Gendry.

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2 minutes ago, Daske said:

If this happens I think it will be with Nymeria rather than Gendry.

Nice idea. Maybe. 

I really cannot see gendry as so important, too.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

Gendry's role is a mystery to me. Reawakening such an almost-forgotten character can be just for the sake of having some known men fighting the battle -- or he could have a much more important role.

He's a blacksmith and we wait for some "promised prince" or "Azor Ahai" to use a special sword. So maybe he is involved in forging or repairing such an endtime-sword. Or realising that the dagger is more than it seems. Or something like that.

I cannot see Arya having a romance at the moment. She is still a child, into puberty, not a single clue dropped pointing towards Arya as woman. Not at all. I cannot imagine her as "lady" or "wife". 

 

Timelines are tricky in ShowWesteros, but Arya is not a child.

First of all, let's remember that Sansa was bethroded to Joffrey when she was 13 in the show (Arya was 11 by then). Sansa actually married Tyrion at the age of 14 (Arya was 12 at that time, presumably, possibly having turnt 13).

So even if we could agree than in our modern world Sansa was a child, a teen, she married an adult man at this age and it was normal for them, not conflict about her age. So, with that same reasoning, Arya could marry someone if she was 14 or older. Is she 14 or older in the show? Absolutely,

Wikia says she actually is 17 IIRC. How old was Tommen when she married Marg? 17 or even less.

So, I'm afraid that Arya is not a child into puberty. She has even called pretty by Hot Pie this season, and two seasons ago, two boys in Braavos actually saw her as a teen or young woman.

Quote

However, I buy into the story arc "Arya turning West of Westeros". This clue was dropped clearly and it would make a lot of sense, because Arya is not the princess or queen type nor the typical emporer. She is wild and looks for adventure. I would love it to see her survive and travelling to new adventures. With Gendry? Maybe so, maybe not, not really important.

I'd like this scenario. It's an interesting possiblity.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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I suspect they will have Gendry restore the Baratheon line. Hell, if the show wanted closure to the rebellion of Robert etc. Dany should legit him, marry him etc to bring closure but I think the show wants the Lannisters to get some action regarding the furture.

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6 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Timelines are tricky in ShowWesteros, but Arya is not a child.

You are right. Timeline is a real problem in GoT -- very fast travelling, obviously no seasons as marker, unclear years go by. Additionally, the age of the main characters is different than in the books. 

In the TV show most younger characters are two years older than in the book. Arya starts at 11 (GoT) or 9 (book), Sansa is 13 (GoT). At the "Red Wedding" Arya is 13 (GoT) or 11 (books).

I agree that Arya in GoT is obviously older at end of season 7. I stand corrected.

Maybe even "one year per TV season" is correct and would reflect the natural ageing of the actors. 

 

28 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

So, I'm afraid that Arya is not a child into puberty.

Anyway, we have very few clues to see her as woman and romance. But we will see. 

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On 25/08/2017 at 1:56 PM, Tywinelle said:

The point is, a royal decree has to be based on something.  Sure, in this fictional setting, Daenerys (if she wins the throne) may legitimize Gendry.  Sillier things have happened on G.O.T.

I think you're both taking this far more seriously than I am boys.

I this this explains what a royal decree has to be based on better than I can:

 

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35 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I suspect they will have Gendry restore the Baratheon line. Hell, if the show wanted closure to the rebellion of Robert etc. Dany should legit him, marry him etc to bring closure but I think the show wants the Lannisters to get some action regarding the furture.

I also think this is a fair guess

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9 hours ago, Kingmonkey said:

I this this explains what a royal decree has to be based on better than I can:

 

LOL true.  And there were batshit crazy monarchs in history who exercised their powers in nonsensical ways so there is no reason why we can't believe fictional ones wouldn't do it too.

I just can't foresee anyone legitimizing Gendry and resurrecting the house of Baratheon.  No one has anything to gain from it as far as I can see.

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:27 PM, sweetsunray said:

I assume that Davos and Jon sent him to Winterfell last week. Not a good idea to bring him to the meeting with Cersei. Davos after all told him to be Clovis, a smith for WF. He's a fast runner and it was several days at least for Jonerys to sail from Eastwatch to Dragonstone and to KL, back to DS and now to White Harbor. Think he pops up in WF first episode of S8.

@Booknerd2 I agree with your comparison to his aFfC Cameo. The moment that Brienne arrives at the Crossroads Inn (aka Orphans Inn), it's nothing but Arya, Arya, Arya, Arya. It's as if Gendry surrounds himself with it as a reminder.

Epi 6 used a Arya-Gendry theme: in the books Gendry's said to be "strong", but Arya's "quicker". They boast about it when Arya challenged him the first time to a duel, at that inn, before the Gold Cloaks show up. At the Acorn Hall tumble in the smithy, Gendry's the strong one, and Arya's quicker. As there is a pattern of verbal or physical tiffs between them (where at least it's play from Gendry), the Acorn Hall tumble is far more intense, as he calls her nice in a nice dress, almost looking like a "proper" girl, and how she smells nice too. But it strongly leaves an impression that the two would have another tumble in the future (a rain check). Arya beats him for being quicker and kneeing him. When he volunteers for the BwB, they warn him "you won't be stealing any kisses of a princess." In order for him to steal a kiss from Princess Arya, he'd need to be as fast as her.

Back to the show: For some reason Jon calls Gendry the "fastest", and sure, he runs faster than the Flash. Meanwhile we have an unrealistically strong Arya who can parry a blow by Brienne's heavy longsword (training one with blunted tip), and in the finale Sansa calls her the "stronger one". (courtesy Meera of Tarth). Given the duel with Brienne, yes, Gendry needs to be the fastest one, if he were ever to have a tumble scene with Arya and steal a kiss from the princess (a smithy tumble scene they didn't do in S3. At the time the actress and Arya were still very young and might have looked too physical exciting)

Then we have Brienne also telling the Hound that Arya's in no need of protection anymore, but the one standing in her way or stopping her would require protection. And the Hound smiles proud like a father about that. Except we once saw Gendry stop Arya before: from killing the Hound after he defeated Beric. We could imagine Arya wanting to steal off to strike a name of her list, especially when it becomes clear that Cersei lied. Only one who'd like to run after her and stop her is Gendry. She's never angry with Gendry over that in S3 (as she is with Lem in the books) for stopping her from killing Sandor, and while hurt, she's also understanding of his choice with the BwB and puts Beric and Thoros on her list for selling him to the witch. So, I can't see her be angry or remain angry with him if he stops her for going to say take Cersei's face. I think that was the allusion of the smashed faces by the hammer in epi 5.

Then in epi5 and  6 we also have Arya saying something about pretty things, pretty dresses, and Cersei's pretty face. The Acorn Hall scene is one of the few occasions that we see Arya wear a dress (and after she ruins the first one with the fight, she gets even a prettier one, purple with baby pearls), Lady Smallwood calls her pretty, etc... I'm half expecting Sansa to coax Arya into wearing a dress and doing her hair in S8. Oh and we had Thoros call Gendry a "proper lad", (a mirror of "proper girl").

So, they're meta-mixing some keywords about these two over and over since Gendry's reappearance.

There's always been tons of material with those two to analyze and make a case. What the show chose to "show" and even when the material was changed for tv, a lot was in the vein of "this is not a passing character in her life", for whatever reason. Certain things like acorn dress, arguing in the Peach over status and him putting the press on the old dude bothering her and not wanting her there, giving Ned Dayne and Arya a petty, perturbed, and immature hard time for no on the surface clear cut reason, arguing over status several times, her status, and what it meant for his own, when he didn't give a crap before knowing he was going to the Night's Watch, The AFFC Cameo, and so much more too. And the same goes for her. There is someone on her list guilty of the grave crime of taking his bull helm and her not liking that very much. 

In the book, just because he is making that sword in AFFC, never led me to believe it was a break with a hammer. He is on the path to discovering who he is (Brienne pushing the issue with him and even bedridden after getting her face chewed, delirious, and in delirium, she still isn't letting it drop). When the call of the Baratheon stag-dom finally hits him it's back to the hammer. Not even convinced he is going to use that sword at all. I think it reflects other things going on. But it's good for him to realize he is better with and prefers the hammer. If that is even an issue either.

A lot of stuff had changed by that chapter and it is very clear that a lot of thinking had transpired before that point. He has some plan to change what his purpose or routine had been at the inn. It is not background smithing to give movement in a dialogue scene. He is making an object maybe he never used with proper training and it is not without it being apparent that a shift somehow occurred and it is for some purpose, and hanging out at the Orphanage Inn indefinitely is probably not in the cards for much longer. In the show that was all blurted out in a quick scene. It could also be a hint that he is going to be more mobile with the BWB and I'm not ruling out other possibilities too. His beard stubble mention and that he was the oldest there I think is a hint that he is nearing some milestone and he is not the kid on the buddy road trip that he was. And he is being compared to another man, Renly. Yes, due to Brienne's history with Renly, but the language hints at the passage of time and change.

It also struck me that he is maybe exploring the knight thing too. He became very hung up on status when he found out and only when he found out Arya's true background. All the m'lady snarky retorts, the Ned Dayne pissing contest and being snotty to Arya, and Ser Gendry of the Hollow Hill is a small point but a starting point. Lord Beric Dondarrion is a lord and from a titled House with status.

Strong and quick/fast was verbalized and shown often in the book. It appears in the show too, as you said. It begs for the question to be asked, why be pointed out and why make personal comparisons between the two characters? If he is a fly by night character that she'll never see again or will never appear again, why does it matter? To be significant enough to be demonstrated in the show should say something too. I thought of it in terms of balance.

Edited by Booknerd2

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Robert said to Ned: "You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done." Except Joffrey was not his son. But poor Bob will have his wish with Gendry and Arya. The Baratheons will survive with Gendry. And join blood with the Starks.

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23 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Robert said to Ned: "You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done." Except Joffrey was not his son. But poor Bob will have his wish with Gendry and Arya. The Baratheons will survive with Gendry. And join blood with the Starks.

And Arya may get what she wanted too. She wanted him to come with her to her family. Stated dead on that " I can be your family" in show, more internal dialogue in book that she is not happy about him leaving, and considers him one of her pack. The ultimate compliment for her. 

He is just not coming back in both book and show exactly how they remember each other, and not the way they would have expected. Both took many winding roads and an alternate route but still most likely happening.

And Robert gets the son he can be proud of posthumously.

Edited by Booknerd2

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1 hour ago, Booknerd2 said:

In the book, just because he is making that sword in AFFC, never led me to believe it was a break with a hammer. He is on the path to discovering who he is (Brienne pushing the issue with him and even bedridden after getting her face chewed, delirious, and in delirium, she still isn't letting it drop). When the call of the Baratheon stag-dom finally hits him it's back to the hammer. Not even convinced he is going to use that sword at all. I think it reflects other things going on. But it's good for him to realize he is better with and prefers the hammer. If that is even an issue either.

Well, euhm swords have a dual meaning of course. It is not finished yet, but nearly. I tend to think the sword is more of a hint by George that he's almost a grown man, not exactly a young boy anymore.

I agree that a hammer is a good weapon for him. In the show, Sandor chucking it away is more a sign to me that he doesn't need to be a legitimized Baratheon. As you said, family comes up a great deal. I've been going over s2-S3 scenes in relation to the 2 episodes we had with him. His mother died when he was young and he never knew his father. He had no siblings, no family. Tobho Mott was his "family/father" for a while, but in the show Tobho sold him to the watch. Yoren acts the father to Arya and Gendry both, instructing them that if the battle with Amory goes wrong they should "both run away". Then they come across the Brotherhood. This was the family he chose, and 4 times we get a "I/he wanted to be one of you", once said by Arya, repeated in almost the exact same words when he's hoisted up Mel's cart, and then we get that twice again in S7. Then he actually arrives at Dragonstone with his uncle Stannis. This must be family and Mel seduces him, but then it turns out it's because she wants to leech him and burn him and his uncle is going along with that. Davos is the new adopted father and true, but he seeks a bro-relationship with Jon as he heard Ned and Robert used to have, but not a bro-mance. And then Jon sends him to Eastwatch again, Tormund has him give up the hammer (he'll be faster without it) and Arya's stand-in father chucks the Baratheon hammer away. It's the sigil that's thrown away imo. It's enough for him to know who he is, but he doesn't need to be legalized, nor be an official Baratheon, nor a castle, in order to have his family.

Arya specifically says "I could be your family." (not "you can be my family"). Hot Pie meets her at the Crossroads, refers twice to conversations of that long scene between Arya and Gendry when he confronts her about the fact that she's a girl: lady knight, he supposes was a knight because she had armor on, and ending with "can't believe I thought you were a boy, you're pretty!" She leaves for WF, home and family. But then she comes across Nymeria who has her "own pack" now. And there was a black wolf amongst them that got prominently featured. She's home and chooses family over her list. But she's also grown up, not needing protection anymore.

1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Robert said to Ned: "You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done." Except Joffrey was not his son. But poor Bob will have his wish with Gendry and Arya. The Baratheons will survive with Gendry. And join blood with the Starks.

Well, we might even have a mirror elopement. But yeah, Robert had the wrong son and daughter in mind.

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Gendry is Robert's true heir and arguably has as much claim to the iron throne as anyone (including Jon and Dany)... he just doesn't have the armies to back it up.

 

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3 hours ago, Booknerd2 said:

And Arya may get what she wanted too. She wanted him to come with her to her family. Stated dead on that " I can be your family" in show, more internal dialogue in book that she is not happy about him leaving, and considers him one of her pack. The ultimate compliment for her. 

He is just not coming back in both book and show exactly how they remember each other, and not the way they would have expected. Both took many winding roads and an alternate route but still most likely happening.

And Robert gets the son he can be proud of posthumously.

Yes, all of that.

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2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, euhm swords have a dual meaning of course. It is not finished yet, but nearly. I tend to think the sword is more of a hint by George that he's almost a grown man, not exactly a young boy anymore.

I agree that a hammer is a good weapon for him. In the show, Sandor chucking it away is more a sign to me that he doesn't need to be a legitimized Baratheon. As you said, family comes up a great deal. I've been going over s2-S3 scenes in relation to the 2 episodes we had with him. His mother died when he was young and he never knew his father. He had no siblings, no family. Tobho Mott was his "family/father" for a while, but in the show Tobho sold him to the watch. Yoren acts the father to Arya and Gendry both, instructing them that if the battle with Amory goes wrong they should "both run away". Then they come across the Brotherhood. This was the family he chose, and 4 times we get a "I/he wanted to be one of you", once said by Arya, repeated in almost the exact same words when he's hoisted up Mel's cart, and then we get that twice again in S7. Then he actually arrives at Dragonstone with his uncle Stannis. This must be family and Mel seduces him, but then it turns out it's because she wants to leech him and burn him and his uncle is going along with that. Davos is the new adopted father and true, but he seeks a bro-relationship with Jon as he heard Ned and Robert used to have, but not a bro-mance. And then Jon sends him to Eastwatch again, Tormund has him give up the hammer (he'll be faster without it) and Arya's stand-in father chucks the Baratheon hammer away. It's the sigil that's thrown away imo. It's enough for him to know who he is, but he doesn't need to be legalized, nor be an official Baratheon, nor a castle, in order to have his family.

Arya specifically says "I could be your family." (not "you can be my family"). Hot Pie meets her at the Crossroads, refers twice to conversations of that long scene between Arya and Gendry when he confronts her about the fact that she's a girl: lady knight, he supposes was a knight because she had armor on, and ending with "can't believe I thought you were a boy, you're pretty!" She leaves for WF, home and family. But then she comes across Nymeria who has her "own pack" now. And there was a black wolf amongst them that got prominently featured. She's home and chooses family over her list. But she's also grown up, not needing protection anymore.

Well, we might even have a mirror elopement. But yeah, Robert had the wrong son and daughter in mind.

I missed that!

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36 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

Gendry is Robert's true heir and arguably has as much claim to the iron throne as anyone (including Jon and Dany)... he just doesn't have the armies to back it up.

 

Only Targaryens and Lannisters have claim these days for some unknown reason

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