JMMapelwood

What is the role of Gendry?

178 posts in this topic

42 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

yes, I agree. Sometimes it's better storytelling not to be extremely obvious with the hints when the pairing has been separated for a long period of time (not the case of JB) and the last time they saw each other the moments were very intense. Then, the pay off also feels more realistic (and less contrived).

Coudl you elaborate on this? I had noticed this parallel. As far as I don't like the Melisandre scene, do you think that what Mel tells him is probably rlated to Tormund's talk? 

Exactly: the majority of viewers cried for years "where's Gendry?" so much that D&D's plan to make people forget he even existed failed. Gendry rowing became a meme, and the moment he set foot in Dublin airport it was all "get hype for Gendry returning!" And now lots of viewers are voicing "We wanna see a Gendry-Arya reunion!" I guess D&D learned from the "forget Gendry" failure, so want to crank up the expectations for it. After all, the leaked script did mention the idea of Gendry and Sandor talking Arya.

Mel says a couple of very interesting things in retrospect in that scene:

  • you only need a tongue to know the "real thing". She's talking about wine, but it also applies to a kiss. You only need to kiss someone to know whether it's the real thing or not.
  • you only need eyes to see, and drops her robe to show off her nubile fake body. So, that's a lie. And it's what Arya learns. She doesn't need eyes to "see", au contraire. She doesn't need eyes to know Mel is wrong and going to hurt him. Anguy tells her not to "aim" or "hold" when shooting arrows, but arrows are a symbol of making someone fall in love. And in S1 Syrio tells her that watching is not the same as seeing, that seeing is the "heart of swordplay" while he prods her heart. Gendry distrusted Mel initially. His gut told him she was up to something, deceiving him, but eventually he took the bait, but survived it to learn the truth; eyes can be deceived.
  • she tells him that the Lord of Light wants them to fight death and darkness, as she starts to fuck him. So fucking = fighting. But she also called Arya having darkness in her, and Arya told Beric that her true god is "death". And in a way true death is the real enemy of the NK, not the Lord of Light. The NK and WWs animate the dead, and unless hit by dragonglass, VS or fire they live forever (horrible forever lives). What did resurrected Beric and Jon accomplish with their stupid wight-hunt-mission. They gave the NK a dragon to resurrect, a dragon that made the wall come down. 
  • On the ship before reaching Dragonstone, Gendry refers to the Riverlands adventures as "running and fighting". Then we get a fucking scene with the wrong woman and it goes wrong for him, so wrong Davos can't find him in a brothel or tavern. Tormund says the best way to live up North and avoid blue-frozen balls is "walking, fighting and fucking". We have a tidbit of Gendry fighting, a lot of "running". What's missing so far? Ah, yes, the best of all three, and the nearest living woman is at WF, which Tormund calls the smelly south and Jon calls the North. Tormund also says they must make do with what they got, but Gendry is picky. No fancy redheads for him on the one hand, and no brothels either. He's going for the "real thing" which he can only see with his heart and taste with his tongue.
  • Brings us to Lady Crane telling Arya how she learned to "sow" people up: she poked holes in her bad boyfriends who cheated on her, then felt sorry and sowed them up. But Gendry is a "good lad" as Thoros calls him. He's not going near another woman. He already knows his life depends on it.

   

Edited by sweetsunray

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

So, no clubbing you with a hammer in the head with Olly-stares is not their sole MO. Separating pairs and trying to make people forget about the pairing, to then come with a surprise return to it is another MO. When it comes to romance, viewers tend to require only a few scenes before they figure out which character is paired with the other character. You can't stretch it out for too long without something happening if you keep them paired up, so they need to be separated. And then just throw distraction filler to keep viewers in doubt.

The detractors alter their arguments and change the perimeter each time again: Sandor's dead, Gendry's not even in the show anymore. Oh, shit Sandor's alive and Gendry's back, what else can I come up with to put down Sansan and Gendrya? Sandor and Gendry don't talk about them! Oh, shit, Sandor has ginger-talk. We've got to invent a new reason.

Nah, @Lysander is right. D&D are nowhere near as subtle as you're trying to make them out to be to support your claim that Gendry/Arya has been hinted at. In fact, D&D are not subtle as all, which is why it was easy to see that Jon and Dany wanted to bone long before they actually did.

If you have to look hard for "clues," they're not there. Your examples are coincidence, not product of a conscious design. "LOL you totes wanna fuck him/her" is about the level of "hinting" at which D&D operate, not oblique, impossible to discern references of the kind you're describing. Trying to find "subtle" hints to support one's ship is an exercise doomed to failure. Just ask Bran/Meera and Jon/Sansa shippers how looking for alleged "clues" in previous seasons worked out for them, LOL. (Spoiler alert: it didn't.)

There were perfect opportunities for Gendry and Sandor to discuss Arya and Sansa with Jon, or even for Sansa to discuss Sandor with Arya and Brienne. They didn't. Take the (not terribly subtle) hint. Save yourself a meltdown or two and accept the inevitable.

Edited by Newstar

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Exactly: the majority of viewers cried for years "where's Gendry?" so much that D&D's plan to make people forget he even existed failed. Gendry rowing became a meme, and the moment he set foot in Dublin airport it was all "get hype for Gendry returning!" And now lots of viewers are voicing "We wanna see a Gendry-Arya reunion!" I guess D&D learned from the "forget Gendry" failure, so want to crank up the expectations for it. After all, the leaked script did mention the idea of Gendry and Sandor talking Arya.

Mel says a couple of very interesting things in retrospect in that scene:

  • you only need a tongue to know the "real thing". She's talking about wine, but it also applies to a kiss. You only need to kiss someone to know whether it's the real thing or not.
  • you only need eyes to see, and drops her robe to show off her nubile fake body. So, that's a lie. And it's what Arya learns. She doesn't need eyes to "see", au contraire. She doesn't need eyes to know Mel is wrong and going to hurt him. Anguy tells her not to "aim" or "hold" when shooting arrows, but arrows are a symbol of making someone fall in love. And in S1 Syrio tells her that watching is not the same as seeing, that seeing is the "heart of swordplay" while he prods her heart. Gendry distrusted Mel initially. His gut told him she was up to something, deceiving him, but eventually he took the bait, but survived it to learn the truth; eyes can be deceived.
  • she tells him that the Lord of Light wants them to fight death and darkness, as she starts to fuck him. So fucking = fighting. But she also called Arya having darkness in her, and Arya told Beric that her true god is "death". And in a way true death is the real enemy of the NK, not the Lord of Light. The NK and WWs animate the dead, and unless hit by dragonglass, VS or fire they live forever (horrible forever lives). What did resurrected Beric and Jon accomplish with their stupid wight-hunt-mission. They gave the NK a dragon to resurrect, a dragon that made the wall come down. 
  • On the ship before reaching Dragonstone, Gendry refers to the Riverlands adventures as "running and fighting". Then we get a fucking scene with the wrong woman and it goes wrong for him, so wrong Davos can't find him in a brothel or tavern. Tormund says the best way to live up North and avoid blue-frozen balls is "walking, fighting and fucking". We have a tidbit of Gendry fighting, a lot of "running". What's missing so far? Ah, yes, the best of all three, and the nearest living woman is at WF, which Tormund calls the smelly south and Jon calls the North. Tormund also says they must make do with what they got, but Gendry is picky. No fancy redheads for him on the one hand, and no brothels either. He's going for the "real thing" which he can only see with his heart and taste with his tongue.
  • Brings us to Lady Crane telling Arya how she learned to "sow" people up: she poked holes in her bad boyfriends who cheated on her, then felt sorry and sowed them up. But Gendry is a "good lad" as Thoros calls him. He's not going near another woman. He already knows his life depends on it.

   

Of course, Gendry is a beloved character! I bet that's the case you mentioned!

:cheers:wow good analysis!!

My favoruite parts are definitely "needing just the eyes to see" and the Kiss. Now that I recall, the eyes thing versus the heart (and also identity) have been extremley EMPHASIZED in the show in regards to Arya. As you pointe dout, since season1.

I like the good lad part!

As for the bow...not to aim or hold....what could it mean? That she doesn't have to use the eyes to see love, but her heart (so the "real" eyes)?:cool4:

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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39 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

:cheers:wow good analysis!!

My favoruite parts are definitely "needing just the eyes to see" and the Kiss. Now that I recall, the eyes thing versus the heart (and also identity) has been extremley EMPHASIZED in the show in regards to Arya. As you pointe dout, since season1.

I like the good lad part!

As for the bow...not to aim or hold....what could it mean? That she doesn't have to use the eyes to see love, but her heart (so the "real" eyes)?

Yes!

They actually crammed a lot of callbacks in the Gendry scenes of S7 and those of Arya. And all you need to do is watch those callbacked scenes and episodes again, such as the Mel-Gendry leech scene that Gendry referenced. That's how I noticed those tidbits.

You mentioned Brienne and the m'ladying. Podrick calls her "my lady", and Brienne wants to tell him "I'm not a b..." She was gonna say, "beauty"! Brienne was thinking of Jaime in that moment, when she saw Arya and Sansa and Bran walking together in the yard ;) But she thanks him, allowing the "my lady". Brienne is referred as the "big lady" and "lady knight" "because she has armor on" by Hot Pie at the Crossroads Inn. That's a callback to the scene where Arya asks Gendry why the Gold Cloaks want him, the meeting of Ned Stark comes up again, and how he should call her m'lady, and she says she's not as good a lady as her sister and her mother. How many times did Arya say in S7 that she wanted to be a knight and how she's not as good a lady as Sansa? Oh, and Hot Pie called her pretty, and referred to them as "survivors", while Sansa said that Arya would never have survived what she went through initially, silently requiring us to recall all the shit she survived in the RL together with Gendry,and her miraculous survival of the stabbing and run with the waif in the same episode that Gendry miraculously survives a marathon run in the snow of a 100 miles.

And the Nymeria scene of the same episode concludes with "that's not you" which is a reference to "that's not me" by Arya in her talk with her father about marrying a lord and having knights and princes for sons. And she's called "little lady" so often then.

They ddn't bring Gendry back until it was a season full of callbacks and references to scenes you look at with a different eye now. All you need to do is watch the callback scenes: luckily for all three "ladies" those are the scenes and episodes from S1-S4: rewatchable, except a few final arc scenes for Arya in S5 and S6. Recalls to S1-S4 scenes are deliberately done, and unlike last year's Tyrion-Theon fuck up, they're correct, and thus not some half-assed coincidence.

No need to fear meltdowns. After all none of these are fan-invented Jonsa, thrown out marriages and setting women up with creeps that got their throat slashed.

Edited by sweetsunray

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31 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Yes!

They actually crammed a lot of callbacks in the Gendry scenes of S7 and those of Arya. And all you need to do is watch those callbacked scenes and episodes again, such as the Mel-Gendry leech scene that Gendry referenced. That's how I noticed those tidbits.

You mentioned Brienne and the m'ladying. Podrick calls her "my lady", and Brienne wants to tell him "I'm not a b..." She was gonna say, "beauty"! Brienne was thinking of Jaime in that moment, when she saw Arya and Sansa and Bran walking together in the yard ;) But she thanks him, allowing the "my lady". Brienne is referred as the "big lady" and "lady knight" "because she has armor on" by Hot Pie at the Crossroads Inn. That's a callback to the scene where Arya asks Gendry why the Gold Cloaks want him, the meeting of Ned Stark comes up again, and how he should call her m'lady, and she says she's not as good a lady as her sister and her mother. How many times did Arya say in S7 that she wanted to be a knight and how she's not as good a lady as Sansa? Oh, and Hot Pie called her pretty, and referred to them as "survivors", while Sansa said that Arya would never have survived what she went through initially, silently requiring us to recall all the shit she survived in the RL together with Gendry,and her miraculous survival of the stabbing and run with the waif in the same episode that Gendry miraculously survives a marathon run in the snow of a 100 miles.

And the Nymeria scene of the same episode concludes with "that's not you" which is a reference to "that's not me" by Arya in her talk with her father about marrying a lord and having knights and princes for sons. And she's called "little lady" so often then.

They ddn't bring Gendry back until it was a season full of callbacks and references to scenes you look at with a different eye now. All you need to do is watch the callback scenes: luckily for all three "ladies" those are the scenes and episodes from S1-S4: rewatchable, except a few final arc scenes for Arya in S5 and S6. 

No need to fear meltdowns. After all none of these are fan-invented Jonsa, thrown out marriages and setting women up with creeps that got their throat slashed.

I definitely missed the beauty moment! how could I....???:bang:

I caught the Hot Pie reference to the knights and armour, and also the obvious.....he is telling her she is pretty!....how did he thoguht she was a boy initially? And that instanctly reminded me....Guess who never thought she was one! Gendry!


They are admiting that they are doing lots of callbacks to previous seasons so yeah I definitely agree with you that they playing it even further because this season was total filler, but precisely because of that it also allowed them to put lots of hints that will make lots of sense next season after a rewatch! real romances.....

Good he is back !

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

They are admiting that they are doing lots of callbacks to previous seasons so yeah I definitely agree with you that they playing it even further because this season was total filler, but precisely because of that it also allowed them to put lots of hints that will make lots of sense next season after a rewatch! real romances.....

Last year after that Lady Crane scene about sowing and putting holes in bad boyfriends I called it then in threads: Gendry's coming back.

And they did several callback scenes in Arya's s7 arc pointing to Gendry's return in the first half of the season, especially that scene with Hot Pie. That scene would have seeded his return for someone who wasn't spoiled, but pays attention. He appears again on screen, after Arya's home and showed off to Brienne, convincing her that Arya doesn't need looking after, and with Brienne feeling that Jaime's quest for her about his promise to Cat is done.

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34 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Last year after that Lady Crane scene about sowing and putting holes in bad boyfriends I called it then in threads: Gendry's coming back.

And they did several callback scenes in Arya's s7 arc pointing to Gendry's return in the first half of the season, especially that scene with Hot Pie. That scene would have seeded his return for someone who wasn't spoiled, but pays attention. He appears again on screen, after Arya's home and showed off to Brienne, convincing her that Arya doesn't need looking after, and with Brienne feeling that Jaime's quest for her about his promise to Cat is done.

I reember!

Yeah, Arya meeting Hot Pie is a pre-installment of her meeting Gendry!

What I mean is that Hot Pie left before him, and it's natural that he meets him before Gendry, so as to remind the audience of her old pack.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Love interest for Arya. 

 

Let's face it, 6 episodes is not enough to be very creative. They could have Gendry, Daeny and Jon have a conflict over the throne. Toss on Tyrion having love for family (cause he is a loyal lannister and never bets against family) and you have a whole new can of worms that can easily fill a season or two. 

 

But I don't see it in them. Gendry will bow out of tye game and at best be new lord of storms end with Arya as his lady. 

 

I'm okay with that. Not my first choice, but I like the kid. He reminds me of a young Robert. So long as Arya doesn't run off with anyone and kick off a new rebellion, all will be well. 

 

I just want to point out. The fact that we see this coming a mile away is something that game of thrones is supposed to NOT be known for. 

Edited by MrJay

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On 9/5/2017 at 8:39 PM, Meera of Tarth said:

They are admiting that they are doing lots of callbacks to previous seasons so yeah I definitely agree with you that they playing it even further because this season was total filler, but precisely because of that it also allowed them to put lots of hints that will make lots of sense next season after a rewatch! real romances.....

Stark sisters romances!

They were getting their ducks in a row, the characters are in place and of course the two main single Stark ladies will have their romances, as set up with Gendry and Sandor in the books. The writing on the show is really bad, especially when it comes to romance and sexuality. But there's no showrunner who would pass up these scenes.

They wasted the classic separation period, because they don't get romance at all. So the stories will be badly written, but they certainly have done a lot of hinting. Like Sandor's "beautiful ginger" is Sansa, yet another beauty and the beast reference, and they went there again with what would make them happy and the other is mentioned.

And this: "That scene where [Gendry is] forging the sword, I'm saying that it's gratuitous, but the idea they wanted to convey was that . . . it was more for Arya than anything to do with my character. It was them trying to imply that Arya's becoming a woman now and she's dealing with feelings that she's maybe not experienced before. I think they just want to hint at that – I'm saying "subtly," but . . . [Laughs] But it's not something I want to make a particular habit of."

It will be three seasons after the Stark sisters' lowest points according to the show (and in Sansa's case, that was not even her own story, she was swapped for a secondary character), and they said things would look up for them after that, and they are all grown up and finally free. And they said they always planned on bringing back the men.

And the scene with their men talking about women was one of the best scenes I've seen on the show, I must have watched it five times (and I am hardly a show fan)! It's got everything but you don't even have to look too deep, the scene was basically, men wanting women. And they don't mind being tied up as long as it's naked! :lol:  Yeah, the Stark sisters can handle them.

(BTW I was looking at some older scenes and they parallel the two sisters a lot. They also serve as stand-ins to tell each other's story a lot.)

Edited by Le Cygne

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From the article quoted above, this says a lot about their love of surprises (and that's something they overdo and are overly reliant upon):

At the end of season three, [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] spoke to me and sort of said, "Look, your character is going to disappear for a while. We don't want you to panic. We're not trying to sack you. We like your performance and your character, but we have plans for him further on down the line."...

The irony, of course, is they wanted people to start forgetting about my character, which I'm sure many people did. If you venture onto social media, it felt like every passing year Gendry's absence became more conspicuous. The speculation became almost a fever-pitch, like the opposite had happened. That every passing year, the hysteria over the unanswered question became more and more palpable.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-gendry-returns-joe-dempsie-interview-1029137

Edited by Le Cygne

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Hi everyone! First time poster here, long-time reader. I just wanted to add my two cents about the role of Gendry and, in extension, the romance-for-Stark-sisters-theory. I believe the lack of obvious/direct reference to their expected ultimate love interests (Gendry for Arya and Sandor for Sansa) is a result of a few different factors:

1. Both Maisie and Sophie were, until very recently, basically children. If not legally, at least in our minds they have been. I think the showrunners were therefore happy to let them play out their other arcs and wait for the final romances - with grown-ass male actors - until the final season. 

2. In the meantime, therefore, they have developed and completed the romantic arcs of the adult pairings. Dany/Jon, Missandei/GW, Jaime/Cersei etc. The only one not yet resolved completely is the Brienne/Jaime one and even that can be tied back to the Stark sisters. Brienne has been Sansa's and, now, also Arya's protector/parent-figure. That was her primary role. But this season there has been very pointed references to the fact that the Stark sisters are not children anymore (Arya's pretty, you guys! Hot Pie says so!) and can take care of themselves. Sansa even literally sends Brienne away to KL where Brienne has an "aw, look how much they've grown!" moment with Sandor with regards to Arya. I get the feeling this repeated emphasis on the Stark sisters' transition out of childhood and into adulthood is for a reason - it subconsciously primes the audience to be fine with seeing the girls have romantic relationships with their adult male co-stars. With the adult pairings - esp. the big Jon/Dany one that they devoted the entirety of S7 to - done and out of the way, the final season is open for romances to develop for the Stark sisters and, by extension, for Brienne and Jaime to complete their arc (be it a happy ending or not). 

3. Littlefinger. He really needed to be out of the way before Sansa could move on in her personal life.  He's been a leech and emotional abuser - beautifully and subtly indicated by Sansa's single tear as he's executed. Like it or not, he had some hold over Sansa emotionally (I don't believe she loved him but there was some dependency there) and in S7, Sansa finally confronted that unhealthy situation and had him removed. Now, in the final season, I believe she will be given the space to heal emotionally and open herself to more healthy relationships with men who are not trying to manipulate her and will never lie to her. In fact, Sansa even directly revealed her desire to be around forthright people this season when Arya was being evasive about the whole "You took mum and dad's room" issue and Sansa tells her to stop doing that and "Say what you mean".  Well, guess who never holds back from saying exactly what he's thinking?? :laugh:

4. Similarly, Arya has been driven by anger and bitterness for so long that her arc will not be complete until she finds some emotional healing (or dies, but that's another story). This season was a step in that direction where she patched things up with her sister (although the execution of the arc was deplorable, IMO). It is only good storytelling to end her arc next season by finding some sort of emotional resolution. This might be where Gendry comes in. He reminds her of the true friendships she's had in addition to basically having  been her sexual awakening back in S2. 

Ultimately, GRRM was going to name the last book in the series 'A Time for Wolves'. Even though this might not be the name anymore, I think it gives us a hint of the flavor of the last chapter in this saga. The ending, I think, will be in large part dedicated to the Starks - which is basically just Sansa and Arya at this point - prevailing, both, in terms of the game of thrones and also as individuals with emotional lives of their own and as the parents of a new future after this story has ended. This is why, I think, we've had the characters of Gendry and the Hound brought back to the show when, really, there was no other real reason to add them to the payroll again. 

 

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They wanted to bring a fan favorite back onto the show as a shocker. I think as far as the show goes, that was the biggest reason to bring him back. And to go ultra meta and reference a meme. Because, why not.

I think in the books he may be a little more important with restoring house Baratheon but who knows. No idea how GRRM would get him there.

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59 minutes ago, Song of the Sea said:

Hi everyone! First time poster here, long-time reader. I just wanted to add my two cents about the role of Gendry and, in extension, the romance-for-Stark-sisters-theory. I believe the lack of obvious/direct reference to their expected ultimate love interests (Gendry for Arya and Sandor for Sansa) is a result of a few different factors:

1. Both Maisie and Sophie were, until very recently, basically children. If not legally, at least in our minds they have been. I think the showrunners were therefore happy to let them play out their other arcs and wait for the final romances - with grown-ass male actors - until the final season. 

2. In the meantime, therefore, they have developed and completed the romantic arcs of the adult pairings. Dany/Jon, Missandei/GW, Jaime/Cersei etc. The only one not yet resolved completely is the Brienne/Jaime one and even that can be tied back to the Stark sisters. Brienne has been Sansa's and, now, also Arya's protector/parent-figure. That was her primary role. But this season there has been very pointed references to the fact that the Stark sisters are not children anymore (Arya's pretty, you guys! Hot Pie says so!) and can take care of themselves. Sansa even literally sends Brienne away to KL where Brienne has an "aw, look how much they've grown!" moment with Sandor with regards to Arya. I get the feeling this repeated emphasis on the Stark sisters' transition out of childhood and into adulthood is for a reason - it subconsciously primes the audience to be fine with seeing the girls have romantic relationships with their adult male co-stars. With the adult pairings - esp. the big Jon/Dany one that they devoted the entirety of S7 to - done and out of the way, the final season is open for romances to develop for the Stark sisters and, by extension, for Brienne and Jaime to complete their arc (be it a happy ending or not). 

Yes, I absoultely agree with your points. The references to the Stark sisters being older, more mature and finally free and capable of protecting herselfs or pretty (in case of Arya)  to do their own are a constant this season,.. I think that's a way to do the transition to them having romances with the men they love.

And that's why they decided to focus on the adult/adult romances first, but now they are all grown up, and as Brienne told Sandor, Arya is as well! Good that Arya cares for Gendry, she won't oppose to him, on the contrary, they are very similar, and they also complement each other. It's good that we already know she had a crush on him, and that the friendship is there. She'll be happy to see that he is alive. I don't know how they'll do the romance, though, but I'm looking forward to see it....

Quote

3. Littlefinger. He really needed to be out of the way before Sansa could move on in her personal life.  He's been a leech and emotional abuser - beautifully and subtly indicated by Sansa's single tear as he's executed. Like it or not, he had some hold over Sansa emotionally (I don't believe she loved him but there was some dependency there) and in S7, Sansa finally confronted that unhealthy situation and had him removed. Now, in the final season, I believe she will be given the space to heal emotionally and open herself to more healthy relationships with men who are not trying to manipulate her and will never lie to her. In fact, Sansa even directly revealed her desire to be around forthright people this season when Arya was being evasive about the whole "You took mum and dad's room" issue and Sansa tells her to stop doing that and "Say what you mean".  Well, guess who never holds back from saying exactly what he's thinking?? :laugh:

4. Similarly, Arya has been driven by anger and bitterness for so long that her arc will not be complete until she finds some emotional healing (or dies, but that's another story). This season was a step in that direction where she patched things up with her sister (although the execution of the arc was deplorable, IMO). It is only good storytelling to end her arc next season by finding some sort of emotional resolution. This might be where Gendry comes in. He reminds her of the true friendships she's had in addition to basically having  been her sexual awakening back in S2. 

Ultimately, GRRM was going to name the last book in the series 'A Time for Wolves'. Even though this might not be the name anymore, I think it gives us a hint of the flavor of the last chapter in this saga. The ending, I think, will be in large part dedicated to the Starks - which is basically just Sansa and Arya at this point - prevailing, both, in terms of the game of thrones and also as individuals with emotional lives of their own and as the parents of a new future after this story has ended. This is why, I think, we've had the characters of Gendry and the Hound brought back to the show when, really, there was no other real reason to add them to the payroll again. 

 

Yes, in case of Sansa getting rid of LF by herseld demonstartes that no one can't stop her now from her own decisions. Same with her dialogue to Brienne, and as you also pointed out, the fact that she chose her parents room:D; if that's no a hint of her being older and having her own decisions I don't know what it is..... when the Hound arrives at Winterfell, she will be able to address the lattent feelings she developed in and if she wants, such as like in the books, she'll freely decide to have a romance with him (which I think will be corresponded...after all Sandorspeak about gingers was veery telling;)). So no more fake marriages for her. This time, she'll decide to love and will be happy with it. Like Robert said:

Get her a dog, she'll be happier with it

As for Arya, Gendry is one of the few people who will understand her more than anyone else, because he was with her, they had bad experiences together, they have a common hate towards the Queen, and they are both good fighters. 

And yes, both men were brought up not as plot devices, they'll probably have some kind of endgame, but the romantic aspect is there for sure....

I liked that they tried to make their returns very secret, as well.....

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

And the scene with their men talking about women was one of the best scenes I've seen on the show, I must have watched it five times (and I am hardly a show fan)! It's got everything but you don't even have to look too deep, the scene was basically, men wanting women. And they don't mind being tied up as long as it's naked! :lol:  Yeah, the Stark sisters can handle them.

Yes, me too!

3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

From the article quoted above, this says a lot about their love of surprises (and that's something they overdo and are overly reliant upon):

At the end of season three, [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] spoke to me and sort of said, "Look, your character is going to disappear for a while. We don't want you to panic. We're not trying to sack you. We like your performance and your character, but we have plans for him further on down the line."...

The irony, of course, is they wanted people to start forgetting about my character, which I'm sure many people did. If you venture onto social media, it felt like every passing year Gendry's absence became more conspicuous. The speculation became almost a fever-pitch, like the opposite had happened. That every passing year, the hysteria over the unanswered question became more and more palpable.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-gendry-returns-joe-dempsie-interview-1029137

Plans!!

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On 8/25/2017 at 8:10 AM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

 

Assuming Jon/Dany win the throne after defeating the WW, Gendry is bound to be legitimized by Dany/Jon (assuming he lives through the Great War), given Storm's End, and will be named Lord of the Stormlands and Warden of the South.  It is known...

From a political POV, legitimizing Gendry would be a VERY dumb move.  Anyone who doesn't like House Targaryen could use the Baratheon claim to the Iron Throne to mount a rebellion somewhere down the line, even if Gendry refutes he has any right to it.  Dany is far too politically savy to do that, unless, as I suspect, she marries Gendry to unify the only two remaining, legitimate claims.   She may love Jon Snow, but if he doesn't survive, as a queen she'll need a consort, and I believe she and Gendry would get along, even if there was no love there. 

If GoT is based on the War of the Roses, that would be how things go.  Henry Tudor's claim was weak; Elizabeth of York's was much stronger, but she was a woman.  They started the Tudor dynasty, and England didn't have another civil war for centuries.  It was a political move, but they grew to love each other, much the same way that Ned and Catelyn Stark fell in love.    

Edited by aeverett

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What is the role of Gendry?

If nothing else, he might be able to reforge some Valyran steel weapons, like Heartsbane. You could get two smaller swords out of that thing and Sam has no use for it. That's something practical he can do. He can also smash some of the more skeletal wights with his war hammer.

Character-wise, he's there to be a parallel with Jon to Ned and Robert, and to remind Arya of the good times.

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13 hours ago, aeverett said:

From a political POV, legitimizing Gendry would be a VERY dumb move.  Anyone who doesn't like House Targaryen could use the Baratheon claim to the Iron Throne to mount a rebellion somewhere down the line, even if Gendry refutes he has any right to it.  Dany is far too politically savy to do that, unless, as I suspect, she marries Gendry to unify the only two remaining, legitimate claims.   She may love Jon Snow, but if he doesn't survive, as a queen she'll need a consort, and I believe she and Gendry would get along, even if there was no love there. 

If GoT is based on the War of the Roses, that would be how things go.  Henry Tudor's claim was weak; Elizabeth of York's was much stronger, but she was a woman.  They started the Tudor dynasty, and England didn't have another civil war for centuries.  It was a political move, but they grew to love each other, much the same way that Ned and Catelyn Stark fell in love.    

Some people keep saying that, but I do not think so, it would be the same as watching the "The White Queen" or "The White Princess" again, but with dragons, magic, zombies ... So despite that ASoIaF is inspired, among other things, in "The Wars of the Roses" and "The Lord of the Rings ", I do not think that GRRM and HBO want to repeat the same endings of them, because this would remove some of the story's originality and mystery. So, it could take some political things from "The Wars of the Roses" and some other things from other stories but its ending will not be the same in any way. 

I particularity think that the show and the books will transcend the "The Wars of the Roses" stage (the show almost did), because of the new common enemy of all human realms, taking end with Cersei's and Euron's final acts. And finally, after "The Great War", they will bring us a completely new world .

 Everything that has happened or will happen in ASoIaF books and on Game of Thrones TV series is for a reason and I'm sure it will surprise us very much. Everything they have suffered will not be in vain. but still the end will be bittersweet ... 

Edited by Jose92

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14 hours ago, aeverett said:

From a political POV, legitimizing Gendry would be a VERY dumb move.  Anyone who doesn't like House Targaryen could use the Baratheon claim to the Iron Throne to mount a rebellion somewhere down the line, even if Gendry refutes he has any right to it.  Dany is far too politically savy to do that, unless, as I suspect, she marries Gendry to unify the only two remaining, legitimate claims.   She may love Jon Snow, but if he doesn't survive, as a queen she'll need a consort, and I believe she and Gendry would get along, even if there was no love there. 

If GoT is based on the War of the Roses, that would be how things go.  Henry Tudor's claim was weak; Elizabeth of York's was much stronger, but she was a woman.  They started the Tudor dynasty, and England didn't have another civil war for centuries.  It was a political move, but they grew to love each other, much the same way that Ned and Catelyn Stark fell in love.    

What makes you think Dany is politically savvy? all her decisions in Essos were boneheaded; and if not for her council and consorts she'd have likely made even bigger missteps. She sees things in black and white; as evident by her senselessly killing the Tarlys.

I think legitimizing Gendry would be a big character moment for her - overcoming all the stories/biases Viserys fed her as a child about the Usurper and her hate for the Baratheons for the greater good. Giving the Stormlands an heir who would be indebted to her would certainly help her gain their allegiance.

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Well, in my opinion, he is a very important character and I will explain why. The main reason is because he is the last remaining heir of house Baratheon (at least the last one you count). Since he joined in with Daenerys, when she wins the Iron Throne, he will probably be legitimatised, that making him lord of Storms End. This just my opinion though.

PS (I ship him with Arya so much)

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There was a quote in the preliminary script:

Jon is getting ready to go. Davos enters with Gendry. Davos had told Gendry not to tell anyone his parentage, but then Gendry takes a risk, steps forward, and says, "Hi, I'm Robert Baratheon's son." Davos isn't thrilled that he just said this, but it gives Gendry a great moment to talk to Jon Snow about having a similar life experience. For Gendry: If this is the side I'm going to be on, I shouldn't be afraid to say something. He thinks Jon will understand his background.

Gendry's true parentage would actually matter to the people at Dragonstone. After all, with Stannis dead, who is now Lord Baratheon? Who is lord of Storm's End? For Jon, the bastard son of Ned Stark, meeting the bastard son of his father's best friend would be a big deal. Jon and Gendry need to start talking to each other, and Gendry volunteers for the mission. Once he understands the importance of what they're doing, he doesn't want to be sitting on the sidelines.

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