JMMapelwood

What is the role of Gendry?

186 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Sounds like wishful thinking season 7 is not related to the end game. The following things in season 7 will almost certainly happen to set up the end in the books as well

- Red Weddin 2.0 is happening in books. Will be Stoneheart and not Arya but that happens.

- Sansa will bring down LF

- there will be a field of fire 2.0 with Tarly betraying the tyrells 

- Dany and Jon will get it on and form an alliance to protect the north 

- the struggle for the throne will be interrupted due to the others invading and we probably will get an attempt to bring everyone together that will fail because someone will betray the others 

- the wall will be going down 

 

I was referring to the things that happen to Gendry and are called fanservice: wight hunt.

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Why do I say Gendry is Henry Tudor?  Well first I have to say I am not convinced that he is but he may be.  First reason, Like Henry if Gendry was to gain the throne, he would be an unlikely candidate with a tenuous claim who emerged at the end of the Wars after all the better claimants were eliminated.  Second reason, GRRM isn't past pulling in a minor character to win the throne, especially when you realize the story never was about who would finally sit on the throne.  He has done it before.  Read his novella, The Princess and the Queen, and see how that ended.

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On 10/11/2017 at 6:05 PM, Faceless Man Friday said:

Why do I say Gendry is Henry Tudor?  Well first I have to say I am not convinced that he is but he may be.  First reason, Like Henry if Gendry was to gain the throne, he would be an unlikely candidate with a tenuous claim who emerged at the end of the Wars after all the better claimants were eliminated.  Second reason, GRRM isn't past pulling in a minor character to win the throne, especially when you realize the story never was about who would finally sit on the throne.  He has done it before.  Read his novella, The Princess and the Queen, and see how that ended.

I agree that in the books this might make sense, if not as Gendry's endgame then definitely Edric's. In the show, it would feel like it was coming out of a left-field because he's been out of the game for so long. A part of me feels like they brought him back literally as fanservice. They even gave a nod to the rowing joke that circulated the fanbase.

Still, give that Gendry is the Gendry-Edric composite character, you could be onto something. What would be all the more amusing would be if it gave us a "Little Women" type ending where he marries the Elizabeth of York character of the series, Sansa.

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50 minutes ago, Faera said:

I agree that in the books this might make sense, if not as Gendry's endgame then definitely Edric's. In the show, it would feel like it was coming out of a left-field because he's been out of the game for so long. A part of me feels like they brought him back literally as fanservice. They even gave a nod to the rowing joke that circulated the fanbase.

I think this is why it won’t happen. You are spot on. It would feel like it was coming out of left field. 

One of the big differences between the books and show is the number of characters. There are certainly benefits to having a tigher number of characters on the show.

But one drawback is that it really limits the possibilities for the ending at this stage since there are just not that many characters who are focal points where them ending up on the throne would be dramatically satisfying. 

The TV audience is just not invested enough in Gendry where him ending up on the throne makes sense. 

Maybe you solve that by having him marry Sansa. But even that feels weird since Gendrya was built up. And if Sansa becomes Queen who is in charge of Winterfell and the North? Bran no. Arya? Hard to envision that being her ending. Jon a trueborn Targaryen? Prob not and if he is alive why is Sansa and gendry queen and king. 

The degrees of freedom have narrowed significantly with the tighter narrative focus. 

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On 10/11/2017 at 7:05 PM, Faceless Man Friday said:

Why do I say Gendry is Henry Tudor?  Well first I have to say I am not convinced that he is but he may be.  First reason, Like Henry if Gendry was to gain the throne, he would be an unlikely candidate with a tenuous claim who emerged at the end of the Wars after all the better claimants were eliminated.  Second reason, GRRM isn't past pulling in a minor character to win the throne, especially when you realize the story never was about who would finally sit on the throne.  He has done it before.  Read his novella, The Princess and the Queen, and see how that ended.

I agree with you. I had had similar thought on this.

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49 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I think this is why it won’t happen. You are spot on. It would feel like it was coming out of left field. 

One of the big differences between the books and show is the number of characters. There are certainly benefits to having a tigher number of characters on the show.

But one drawback is that it really limits the possibilities for the ending at this stage since there are just not that many characters who are focal points where them ending up on the throne would be dramatically satisfying. 

The TV audience is just not invested enough in Gendry where him ending up on the throne makes sense. 

Maybe you solve that by having him marry Sansa. But even that feels weird since Gendrya was built up. And if Sansa becomes Queen who is in charge of Winterfell and the North? Bran no. Arya? Hard to envision that being her ending. Jon a trueborn Targaryen? Prob not and if he is alive why is Sansa and gendry queen and king. 

The degrees of freedom have narrowed significantly with the tighter narrative focus. 

The problem with Gendry in the books is that is plot feels pretty much done now. He's still with the brotherhood without banners but not actively travelling around with them while Lady Stoneheart hangs any Frey or Lannister sympathiser she can find. With the dropped Lady Stoneheart plot and the blending of him with Edric Storm, they really had nothing for him to do. They couldn't even give him an Edric plotline because, much like with show!Gendry, we haven't seen Edric since Davos helped him escape. As for the whole "Gendya" thing... it isn't all that big a deal in the books. Even in the show, Arya really doesn't seem like a character who really belongs in a romantic plot at all with her point of view and attitudes now, certainly not one that has a remotely happy ending.

So, yes, what is the point of Gendry? Fanservice. He's a character the vocal fans liked and they brought him back "because show."

It does feel that even with the "tighter focus" they have a lot of extraneous characters they have reintroduced for no real reason. I mean, Beric is well overdue his final death. I know we all wondered what happened to Gendry after he left but they could have answered that question with one throwaway scene showing him working as a smithy, IDK, fixing a horseshoe for Brienne and Pod or something in S5 when she goes on her Sansa hunt. They really didn't need to bring him back to smash in two Goldcloaks and then go on that pointless wight-hunt... then disappear.

Edited by Faera

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22 minutes ago, Faera said:

The problem with Gendry in the books is that is plot feels pretty much done now. He's still with the brotherhood without banners but not actively travelling around with them while Lady Stoneheart hangs any Frey or Lannister sympathiser she can find. With the dropped Lady Stoneheart plot and the blending of him with Edric Storm, they really had nothing for him to do. They couldn't even give him an Edric plotline because, much like with show!Gendry, we haven't seen Edric since Davos helped him escape. As for the whole "Gendya" thing... it isn't all that big a deal in the books. Even in the show, Arya really doesn't seem like a character who really belongs in a romantic plot at all with her point of view and attitudes now, certainly not one that has a remotely happy ending.

The only reason I think Gendrya has a good chance is the director back in season 3 made sure to direct the scenes with romantic overtones. But you could be right and there is no point. 

Quote

So, yes, what is the point of Gendry? Fanservice. He's a character the vocal fans liked and they brought him back "because show."

It does feel that even with the "tighter focus" they have a lot of extraneous characters they have reintroduced for no real reason. I mean, Beric is well overdue his final death.

Beric was reintroduced I believe so he could have the conversation with Jon in 7x06 and help him come to terms with being ressurected. We will see if he will also give someone his life through CPR as was the case in the books. 

Quote

I know we all wondered what happened to Gendry after he left but they could have answered that question with one throwaway scene showing him working as a smithy, IDK, fixing a horseshoe for Brienne and Pod or something in S5 when she goes on her Sansa hunt. They really didn't need to bring him back to smash in two Goldcloaks and then go on that pointless wight-hunt... then disappear.

 

Edited by jcmontea

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8 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

The only reason I think Gendrya has a good chance is the director back in season 3 made sure to direct the scenes with romantic overtones. But you could be right and there is no point. 

I honestly hope not because it would feel incredibly insipid given the way the show and characters have gone. Plus, as you say, it is pointless at this point. (Sorry, Gendrya fans! Please don't hurt me... :rolleyes:)

11 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Beric was reintroduced I believe so he could have the conversation with Jon in 7x06 and help him come to terms with being ressurected.

Very likely... but then, why not just kill him during the wight-hunt. I honestly went into that episode thinking the whole point of that episode was to cull characters. I really thought only Jon, the Hound and maybe Gendry (seeing as they went to the trouble of bringing him back) would be coming back. But yeah, that he survived likely means he's there to give the "kiss of life" to someone. Hopefully not Jon because that would feel a bit redundant.

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5 minutes ago, Faera said:

I honestly hope not because it would feel incredibly insipid given the way the show and characters have gone. Plus, as you say, it is pointless at this point. (Sorry, Gendrya fans! Please don't hurt me... :rolleyes:)

Yea. I don’t have a need to see that plot either. Not sure if I would care if they go in that direction though. Could be interesting as another step in Arya’s rehumanization. 

5 minutes ago, Faera said:

Very likely... but then, why not just kill him during the wight-hunt. I honestly went into that episode thinking the whole point of that episode was to cull characters. I really thought only Jon, the Hound and maybe Gendry (seeing as they went to the trouble of bringing him back) would be coming back. But yeah, that he survived likely means he's there to give the "kiss of life" to someone. Hopefully not Jon because that would feel a bit redundant.

Yea. Its either the “kiss of life” OR to have enough characters you can kill in Season 8 to make it seem like there are big losses in the two big battles we should get next year. 

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14 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Could be interesting as another step in Arya’s rehumanization. 

After the things Arya has done, I think any attempt to "rehumanise" her feels a bit cheap. Like they don't have the guts to see what they have done with her.

So, yeah, they probably will do it... though I feel the most satisfying end for Arya would be for her to leave, by herself, and simply disappear to do her own thing. If she survives, of course.

18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

OR to have enough characters you can kill in Season 8 to make it seem like there are big losses in the two big battles we should get next year. 

It is possible to have too much of a good thing. Having so many extraneous characters still running around could be seen as a detriment because that means there are that many more characters to write deaths for. Too many characters dying that close to each other sucks the sense of loss out of it. For that reason, I agree that Beric will probably die giving the kiss of life rather than in battle, given that there are so many other characters who could die in the wars to come.

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1 hour ago, Faera said:

After the things Arya has done, I think any attempt to "rehumanise" her feels a bit cheap. Like they don't have the guts to see what they have done with her.

So, yeah, they probably will do it... though I feel the most satisfying end for Arya would be for her to leave, by herself, and simply disappear to do her own thing. If she survives, of course.

It is possible to have too much of a good thing. Having so many extraneous characters still running around could be seen as a detriment because that means there are that many more characters to write deaths for. Too many characters dying that close to each other sucks the sense of loss out of it. For that reason, I agree that Beric will probably die giving the kiss of life rather than in battle, given that there are so many other characters who could die in the wars to come.

True. You need to space out the deaths and prob can’t have more than 2 or 3 in an episode. Which might be why no one really died on the white hunt. Maybe they decided Thoros and Vicerion where enough. 

I have a feeling someone is going to try and kill Dany next year after 7x07 and what Jorah said. Could see Jon taking one in the heart for her after all the he took one in the heart for his people talk. If you think about it he did not really sacrifice himself for his people. Not conciously at least so the way they phrased the whole thing is suspicious. This would also be an interesting reverse parallel to Ygriette who he was not able to save. Then Thoros brings him back again and passes away.

Or Dany is just assasinated and thats it. Or someone else saves her. Would be a fitting end for Jorah to die saving his Queen for a third time. Or would be interesting it Jaime saved her although if Jaime did he would not die like that. 

Edited by jcmontea

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3 hours ago, Faera said:

After the things Arya has done, I think any attempt to "rehumanise" her feels a bit cheap. Like they don't have the guts to see what they have done with her.

So, yeah, they probably will do it... though I feel the most satisfying end for Arya would be for her to leave, by herself, and simply disappear to do her own thing. If she survives, of course.

The feeling I got was that the show already began the process with Arya after she made up with Sansa. So I see a possibility of Arya and Gendry being romantically involved.

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3 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

The feeling I got was that the show already began the process with Arya after she made up with Sansa. So I see a possibility of Arya and Gendry being romantically involved.

Yes, definitely. I agree with all that.

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Gendry's role in the series is simple: To be a character people recognise, like, and ship with Arya.

Also, someone who runs at sanic speed due to training with Usain of House Bolt when he's not smithing.

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2 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

 

Gendry's role in the series is simple: To be a character people recognise, like, and ship with Arya.

 

Yep.

2 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Also, someone who runs at sanic speed due to training with Usain of House Bolt when he's not smithing.

Aha, I still don't understand why Jon decided that Gendry of all people was fasted. Did Jon have them do trial runs before they left? If he had time to do that, they should have had time to come up with a better plan!

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11 minutes ago, Faera said:

Aha, I still don't understand why Jon decided that Gendry of all people was fasted.

See, D&D were wearing their DRAMATIC SATISFACTION™ hats, which dictate that to make a twist good, it has to contradict all available information so the audience won't see it coming.

However, they forgot that Gendry being the runner wasn't meant to be a twist, just a small detail, so they decided to make the one guy with no experience traversing beyond-the-wall terrain and had a day job standing still and building upper body strength to be the best runner, because that way their twist that wasn't would be DRAMATICALLY SATISFYING™.

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13 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

See, D&D were wearing their DRAMATIC SATISFACTION™ hats, which dictate that to make a twist good, it has to contradict all available information so the audience won't see it coming.

However, they forgot that Gendry being the runner wasn't meant to be a twist, just a small detail, so they decided to make the one guy with no experience traversing beyond-the-wall terrain and had a day job standing still and building upper body strength to be the best runner, because that way their twist that wasn't would be DRAMATICALLY SATISFYING™.

IKR? I mean, wouldn't it have made more sense for Tormund to be the best at traversing snow and getting back to the Wall?

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5 hours ago, Faera said:

Yep.

Aha, I still don't understand why Jon decided that Gendry of all people was fasted. Did Jon have them do trial runs before they left? If he had time to do that, they should have had time to come up with a better plan!

In the first pages of this thread, starting at page 2, @sweetsunray exposed a possible explanation that could be that Gendry is the fastest so as that, in the future, he could be the one capable of being faster than Arya (that we know she is many times, like when she fights with Brienne), and we also know that Arya is the "strongest" (an adjective that fits Gendry) from the final episode. And as @Booknerd2 mentioned, the theme of fast/quick vs strong is repeated several times in the books.

 

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Gendry's role in the show is for the show runners to now go "meta" by making comments about memes of the show. In the books now, he is pretty minor, even though starting a lot of the plot in A Game of Thrones book.
I don't see how they are going to be able to write him a satisfying ending when this show is done.

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37 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Gendry's role in the show is for the show runners to now go "meta"

Willing suspension of disbelief fucked like a Season 1 whore.

Seriously, can you imagine a scene from Seasons 1-4 where such cringe-worthy dank memery was allowed to reach the final cut? It's legitimately turning GoT into a joke, which some people think D&D are doing deliberately.

Eh, best to embrace the asshattery at this point.

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