Valyrian Fyrewyrm

Those Chains

75 posts in this topic

Just now, ummester said:

The babies were alive, the dragon wasn't. The NK can make living things into White Walkers, or Others or Neverborns or whatever they are, not dead things. The dragon would now logically be like the polar bear, a reanimated dead animal.

Of course, the show has not been logical and the dragons are magical, so who knows.

I know that the dragon was dead and Craster's boys are alive. But I'll more readily believe D&D to ignore that inconsistency than altering the result. The polar bear wasn't fireproof, the dragon would be. :dunno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

But then aren't the WWs fireproof as well?

Exactly: WWs and ice dragon would be fireproof, anything wighted not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I know that the dragon was dead and Craster's boys are alive. But I'll more readily believe D&D to ignore that inconsistency than altering the result. The polar bear wasn't fireproof, the dragon would be. :dunno:

Yea, the fireproof-ness will be interesting, an easily combustible dragon that can breath fire won't make much sense. Unless it doesn't breath fire and is ice proof or something. Perhaps it can freeze other dragons in the air and make them fall to the ground and shatter :) The whole thing has gotten a bit silly, IMO, no internal consistency at all now.

The NK should have just wounded the dragon, brought it to the ground and turned it while it was alive - that would have made more sense than what we saw and allowed it to be fireproof.

Edited by ummester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

 

While I hate the chains in that scene, I think there's meant to be a difference between the NK lifting his arms to make humans into wights and the NK touched the brow. The NK touched the brow of Craster's sons and they became White Walkers. Viserion is touched on the brow and instead of a wighted dragon he becomes an ice dragon.

It was always my understanding that the difference came from the fact that Craster's sons were alive when they were turned which differentiated them from the mindless reanimated corpses.  If the Night King had turned Viserion when it was alive then it would be like the White Walkers, but since it was dead I assume its more like the wight horses.  Of course there is little reason to expect consistency from the show at this point.

 

1 hour ago, Kytheros said:

They don't need to swim to get the chains around Viserion's neck. They can (presumably) walk on the bottom of the lack dragging the chains, wrap them around his neck, and then climb up the chains to get back out.

This is the same thought I had at first, and then I realize that if they can simply march through bodies of water the wall would be completely useless as the dead could just march around it through the sea.  Can they only walk through fresh water?

The whole thing makes no sense, just D&D being lazy.  I'm sure the people in this topic have already given the chains twice as much thought as they ever did which is why we are constantly left scratching our heads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Bear42 said:

The whole thing makes no sense, just D&D being lazy.  I'm sure the people in this topic have already given the chains twice as much thought as they ever did which is why we are constantly left scratching our heads.

I agree, they probably thought it would look cool that one of the children of the "breaker of chains" is "chained", like chrys who makes those hilarious images with caps pointed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised people had such a problem with the chains, it was one of the least nonsensical parts of the episode. He could have sent wights to retrieve those chains before he even showed up at the lake (it seems he knew the dragons were en route, or at least that's what I think as it makes the episode slightly less stupid). Or the scene with them pulling the dragon up might have taken place weeks later. The chains could be from Hardhome, or some long-abandoned giant camp, or taken from the northern side of the wall at some point, or forged by wights under NK's control. The NK is immortal for all intents and purposes, who knows/cares when or where he got those chains. 

Hell, maybe he sent a million supersonic ravens to Dorne and back in a single 15 minute trip carrying the chains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mattnj81 said:

<snip>

Hell, maybe he sent a million supersonic ravens to Dorne and back in a single 15 minute trip carrying the chains.

What's the airspeed velocity of an unladen raven?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Col Cinders said:

What's the airspeed velocity of an unladen raven?

Image result for charlie kelly map

*Edit* ha, that didn't work at all. Was supposed to be an image of that crazy guy with the map.

Edited by mattnj81
I'm a dope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Giants attach chains to the wall gate at Castle Black and then attempted to pull the gate open with a Mammoth?

The chains could have come from anywhere.  The show doesn't establish that the wildlings and giants and WW don't have metal/chains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Exactly: WWs and ice dragon would be fireproof, anything wighted not.

And your quote from below sums up my problem with going that route.  

25 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I know that the dragon was dead and Craster's boys are alive. But I'll more readily believe D&D to ignore that inconsistency than altering the result. The polar bear wasn't fireproof, the dragon would be. :dunno:

But like, under this logic, is Dany now freeze proof? (WW can walk through fire and put it out and Dany can sit in fire and not burn/die)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lord Okra said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Giants attach chains to the wall gate at Castle Black and then attempted to pull the gate open with a Mammoth?

The chains could have come from anywhere.  The show doesn't establish that the wildlings and giants and WW don't have metal/chains.

Forgot about that, so touche. But to be fair, I'm sure D&D forgot about that portion of the episode as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, mattnj81 said:

I'm surprised people had such a problem with the chains, it was one of the least nonsensical parts of the episode. He could have sent wights to retrieve those chains before he even showed up at the lake (it seems he knew the dragons were en route, or at least that's what I think as it makes the episode slightly less stupid). Or the scene with them pulling the dragon up might have taken place weeks later. The chains could be from Hardhome, or some long-abandoned giant camp, or taken from the northern side of the wall at some point, or forged by wights under NK's control. The NK is immortal for all intents and purposes, who knows/cares when or where he got those chains. 

No wights were harmed in the making of these chains. :P

The other explanations are possible, but wights forging chains... don't think so.

Edited by Corvinus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, mattnj81 said:

The chains […] or forged by wights under NK's control.

Forged? By creatures that are killed when they're hit by flames?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Forged? By creatures that are killed when they're hit by flames?

Human beings are also harmed by flames, and have no problem forging things. Not saying it's at all likely, just that there are lots of possibilities. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

No wights were harmed in the making of these chains. :P

The other explanations are possible, but wights forging chains... don't think so.

Obviously not a likely scenario, but just making the case that there are lots of possibilities so we shouldn't get hung up where the chains came from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mattnj81 said:

Obviously not a likely scenario, but just making the case that there are lots of possibilities so we shouldn't get hung up where the chains came from.

I suppose it's possible, mainly because the show has decided that fire isn't quite as dangerous to wights as it is in the books, evidence by the bear that kept on going. In the books, that bear would have died near instantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

Forgot about that, so touche. But to be fair, I'm sure D&D forgot about that portion of the episode as well.

I take this as D&D improving on the story.

The wildlings should have the knowledge to forge steel in the books.  If they don't, it isn't very plausible.

And I'll tell you why.....

Mance was at the Night's Watch for years.  He'd have seen the blacksmiths forging iron and steel.  When he left and joined the wildlings.....he'd have brought at least some basic knowledge of that with him to whichever wildlings he was with.

If he had spent decades beyond the wall with the wildlings then they had plenty of time to work out improvements and figuring out exactly hwo to get good iron at least.

The wildlings not having iron/steel doesn't make any sense.

So......this is D&D improving on the implausible stuff in the books.-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I suppose it's possible, mainly because the show has decided that fire isn't quite as dangerous to wights as it is in the books, evidence by the bear that kept on going. In the books, that bear would have died near instantly.

True, and the show is barely coherent at this point anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The big problem D&D have created for us with their ignoring passage of time completely is that we don't know whether they had the chains on hand or not.  Whether they had the chains on hand would make a profound difference in the interpretation of this event.  Having the chain at the ready means that the NK, as a greenseer, knew in advance and did orchestrate this entire battle to capture a dragon.  If it took them weeks to go find a chain and come back to bring up Vissy, just another chalk for poor timelining by D&D.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now