Jon Snow is the real Aegon.

[Raventhal]

I am not saying that Jon Snow is literally Aegon.  

Varys gives Kevan a monologue on Aegon as Kevan dies about Aegon.  Was it truth, lie or some sort of double speak, who knows.  The point was that Aegon was groomed to be king and see it as a duty and not a right.  

To me Aegon real or fake still has fake molding to become king.  He still is brash and looks as himself as the rightful king. That's one thing took away from his character counter to Varys statement.

Jon Snow on the other also is the hidden prince trope. I am assuming that his legitimacy will be proven somehow.  He is exactly what Varys seems to want in Aegon.

Jon Snow is raised as bastard lordling. Meaning he learns the duty but not expected to get the role. He is trained to fight. He follows his own path to the Night's Watch and gets a leadership role on his own.  He likely is to leave his post post death to find greatness in the North.  This largely to done on his own.  Not some plot or grooming.

I assume real or fake Aegon is going to fail in his quest and die. This due to Cersei's foretelling that she will be cast down by a younger queen not a king.  This is why I think Jon Snow is the hidden Targaryen that Varys always wanted.

 

[Wolf of The Wall]

2 hours ago, Raventhal said:

This is why I think Jon Snow is the hidden Targaryen that Varys always wanted.

 

I don't think Varys has any concerns about Targaryen Dynasty. I don't know what Varys' end game is but i dont think has anything to do with Targaryens survivability. Almost everything he did during Aerys' reign further fueled the Mad King's madness and as Jaime said only time that the Mad King should've listen to the Spider he didn't and that led to Sack of KL and death of Prince Aegon. I think Varys wanted to keep Aegon alive for his own endgame but he failed and now he fabricated one to fulfill his plans. Like i said i don't know Varys' endgame but i don't think he concerns himself with the well being of Targaryens.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

4 hours ago, Raventhal said:

 This is why I think Jon Snow is the hidden Targaryen that Varys always wanted.

I have to disagree. Varys wants the Aegon he can control. The Aegon that thinks Varys saved in King's Landing. The Aegon that owes Varys and Illyrio a dept if he takes the Throne.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

I don't think Varys cares about the Targaryen dynasty or any other dynasty. He himself even said to Tyrion "power resides where people believe it resides". Rhaegar was well-liked and if his son, who was originally assumed to be dead, returns, the people are more likely to like him, but Varys (and Illyrio) want someone whom they can control. Whether Aegon is a Targaryen, Blackfyre or some slave boy that Varys and Illyrio bought from Lys or where ever, the point is is that Varys and Illyrio will rule Westeros through Aegon and will have power that way.

Aegon will simply be a puppet and Varys the mummer who controls the puppet. That is how I see it.

[Angel Eyes]

8 hours ago, Raventhal said:

I am not saying that Jon Snow is literally Aegon.  

Varys gives Kevan a monologue on Aegon as Kevan dies about Aegon.  Was it truth, lie or some sort of double speak, who knows.  The point was that Aegon was groomed to be king and see it as a duty and not a right.  

To me Aegon real or fake still has fake molding to become king.  He still is brash and looks as himself as the rightful king. That's one thing took away from his character counter to Varys statement.

Jon Snow on the other also is the hidden prince trope. I am assuming that his legitimacy will be proven somehow.  He is exactly what Varys seems to want in Aegon.

Jon Snow is raised as bastard lordling. Meaning he learns the duty but not expected to get the role. He is trained to fight. He follows his own path to the Night's Watch and gets a leadership role on his own.  He likely is to leave his post post death to find greatness in the North.  This largely to done on his own.  Not some plot or grooming.

I assume real or fake Aegon is going to fail in his quest and die. This due to Cersei's foretelling that she will be cast down by a younger queen not a king.  This is why I think Jon Snow is the hidden Targaryen that Varys always wanted.

 

I guess that you can have siblings that have the same name.

[Graydon Hicks]

you know, that actually has bugged me on leaks i found for the show. why are they calling him aegon? wouldnt aemon work better? that last time they had two aegons at the sametime, they had a civil war, where both sides had dragons. not exactly the luckiest of targ names.

[Ygrain]

Yeah, from this point of view you are right, OP - Jon is actually what Varys claims Aegon to be, minus the entitlement. But I also agree with what the others have pointed out - Varys is not doing it for the good of the Targaryens.

[Graydon Hicks]

yeah, i agree with the show version of varys, that hes trying do this for the good of the common folk. when robert was king, he didnt try to hard to reinstate the targs, because things were peaceful and bountiful under robert, but when joffrey and his mother take over, things start going to shit. in many ways varys is the opposite of littlefinger. littlefinger likes chaos, becuase chaos is the ladder and offers him opportunities to enrich himself. vayrs prefers order. as long as things are orderly, the commonfolk arent being oppressed that heavily. oppressed commoners often lead to chaos. that why the real players in the game are littlefinger and the spider. both use similar means to get similar information, but but that information to different uses.

[Mahtimuussi]

I have hard time thinking that Jon´s name is Aegon in the book since we would have 2 Aegons, not impossible though. I just don´t think that its a coincidence that Rhaegar´s best friend´s name is Jon. 

[Hiigara129]

There shouldn't have been two Aegons at the same time. Jon was born after the sack of King's Landing and its quite likely that Lyarra knew that her son's half-siblings were dead. So it would either be a way to honor her Rhaegar/Aegon or perhaps some kind of spite thing. IDK but it's not impossible or unlikely. We don't know if Jon will have the same Targaryen name in the books though considering that the show cut the (f)Aegon storyline.

[cgrav]

 

I agree it's definitely a bit of dramatic irony, and probably the last big RLJ clue before the outright reveal. fAegon isn't quite the self-sufficient, dutiful monarch Varys describes, and that actually makes me think that Illyrio has been less than honest with his co-conspirator. The fact that we meet him incognito should be significant beyond the plot.

The show got away with Aegon because I don't think they ever even mentioned baby Aegon by name, and only referenced the infanticide early in season 1.  

I guess it's possible that book Rhaegar and Lyanna named a second Aegon after the first one died, but I don't see that as likely.

[Nihlus]

Varys doesn't want a noble king or anything, he wants a Blackfyre in his pocket.

But Jon is an entitled little twit anyway.

[cgrav]

3 minutes ago, Nihlus said:

 

But Jon is an entitled little twit anyway.

You mean fAegon, I assume?

[Nihlus]

1 minute ago, cgrav said:

You mean fAegon, I assume?

No, I mean Jon. As for Aegon, we don't know enough about him to say for sure whether he'd, for example, try to murder his superior officer for mocking him.

[Chebyshov]

The real Aegon is the friends we made along the way.

I'll echo the others re: Varys's motives.

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

I think someone pointed out that Aegon in DwD is probably a Backfyre because he is protected by the Golden Company, which follows Daemon Blackfyre. In World of Ice and Fire GRRM writes that Daemon's legacy lives through the Golden Company. It's probably literal. However, it's important to note that Blackfyres are also Targs, like full blooded ones. Daemon's parents were too Targs, and people even compare his looks to Aegon's. So the very likely fake Aegon could very likely ride dragons. I think Dany's quest is bigger than the Iron Throne. She could be the one to end the Backfyre conflict for good. She probably goes to Valyria and bring back the Lands of Always Summer. To go west she must go east first. 

Also, I don't think Rhaegar named two sons Aegon. He probably only had two kids. The baby Aegon is probably Jon. I know he was with Elia. It's possible an actual baby switching happened, but with Aegon going to Ned and becoming Jon, not going to Essos. Elia is said to be really frail so she may not have had more than one child. Rhaegar's story sort of parallel's Aegon the Conqueror's. Aegon original took two wives too, one for love (Rhaenys) and the other for duty (Visenia). He had two children with the two wives. Rhaenys dies from poisoning mysteriously. We don't know how Lyanna died. It's easy to speculate that she died during childbirth. But Ned remembers her suffering from a fever, and a room smelling of roses, which can also be poison. Where do these blue roses come from anyway? They don't grow in Winterfell. Highgarden is where all the pretty flowers are! Maybe Elia Martell is not the tragic victim we think she is. She probably got jealous and tried to poison Lyanna. She may have taken the baby, or the baby could have been given to her for protection or something. It also explains why she remained in King's Landing. She thought it would be safe for some reason. Anyway, it is just a wild theory. 

 

[cgrav]

@Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

We know Lyanna died very shortly after childbirth because "Bed of blood" and "bloody bed" are used exclusively to describe a bed used for childbirth. The fever would be due to infection (obviously it would be anachronistic to use the term in the story, but that's universally the underlying cause of fever). I wouldn't consider that conclusion speculative.

Also winter roses don't need to grow at Winterfell, as we only see Lyanna with them at Harrenhal and the ToJ. But the fact that she was noted to love them would indicate they can be found somewhere nearby.

And I think it's reasonable to assume that Elia stayed in the Red Keep because that should have been the safest place for any member of the royal family. The Lannister sack was an act of treachery not anticipated by Aerys.

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

@cgrav

but we don't see any blue roses anywhere near winterfell at any moment the story is set there. Lyanna's association with blue roses also come from that infamous tourney, when Rhaegar gives her that love and beauty blue rose crown/garland. We've seen Harrenhal and King's Landing, but no character mentions blue roses. They don't grow naturally and requires some type of drying during growth I think. That's why I said maybe the roses come from Highgarden, a place with expert gardeners and people prone to poisonings as we know. But i remember the blood of bed is mentioned in the 1st Ned chap of GoT, where she lays in the bloody bed and makes him promise. If she had a fever she probably didn't die right away. I think some toxins or poisons cause fever, an immune system reaction, not just a pathogen. 

Anyway as I said, just a theory. It's also entirely possible Rhaegar had  Aegon with Elia and and mistook him for the price that was promised, as he once mistook himself to be the subject of the prophesy. The woman Dany saw could be Elia, no mystery at all. Jon probably doesn't have a Targ name; just the show made it up. But it's GRRM so it could end up being more complicated. Like, why in the world did Robert think Lyanna was kidnapped? Was he in such denial as to go to war? Why didn't Ned calm him down instead of getting his brother and father involved as well?

---

ah i just say this post where it says GRRM confirmed the lady in the vision is Elia. Theory down the toilet. but, still, blue roses. 

[cgrav]

@Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

you're correct that blue roses are not mentioned at Winterfell in the present narrative, but we do have a mention by Mance when he recounts Bael the Bard to Jon:

Quote

So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o' the winter roses be plucked for the singer's payment.

 

[HallowedMarcus]

On 26/08/2017 at 10:47 AM, Wolf of The Wall said:

I don't think Varys has any concerns about Targaryen Dynasty.

I believe he does has a real concern about them. He stood by the Mad Targaryen King until the end and told him what would happen if he opened the gates of King~s Landing. He wants something that the Noble and people look up to and so avoid chaos, disorder, and anarchy. And he sees the Targaryen as capable of doing so because of the myths that follow this ancient family.