Angel Eyes

Did the Targaryens dislike the Celtigars?

14 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Three Valyrian houses migrated from Valyria to Westeros: Targaryen, Velaryon and Celtigar. There have been several marriages between Targaryens and Velaryons, but not a single marriage between Celtigars and Targaryens.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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There could have been such a match prior to the Conquest, although I don't think that's very likely. The Celtigars simply don't seem to be all that important. But I'm pretty sure they still have quite a lot of Targaryen blood since there most likely were quite a few Velaryon-Celtigar matches.

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Claw Isle seems a rather minor Holdfast on a poorly located island. Driftmark on the other hand is an isle as large as Dragonstone that historically housed a fleet almost the size of the royal one, meaning it was critical to the defense of Blackwater Bay and the Narrow Sea.

Could also be that Velaryons were during the times of the Freehold a more prominent House, and the Celtigars were something like landed knights, meaning their blood might not be so 'pure.'

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They couldn't have disliked them all that much, since Aegon I made a Celtigar his first master of coin.

The Celtigars might not have been particularly wealthy or influential (they're rich now, but that could be more recent) or they might have intermarried with non-Valyrian houses on the mainland, making them less attractive marriage partners than the Velaryons.

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I think that prior to the conquest, the Targs on Dragonstone married with house Celtigar. The preference for house Velaryon has nothing to do with disliking the others. The Velaryons were simply closer, wealthier and of "purer" blood. 

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Do we actually know that the Celtigars were a dragonlord family like the Targaryens and Velaryons?

They're said to have "the blood of old Valyria in their veins", but that could just mean a few Targaryen/Velaryon marriages going back 400 years, instead of only 300 years like the other Westerosi houses. In fact, it's not all that different from when the Martells are said to have dragonblood in their veins, which we know only goes back to Maron and Daenerys barely a century ago.

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On 9/17/2017 at 10:43 PM, falcotron said:

Do we actually know that the Celtigars were a dragonlord family like the Targaryens and Velaryons?

They're said to have "the blood of old Valyria in their veins", but that could just mean a few Targaryen/Velaryon marriages going back 400 years, instead of only 300 years like the other Westerosi houses. In fact, it's not all that different from when the Martells are said to have dragonblood in their veins, which we know only goes back to Maron and Daenerys barely a century ago.

Although a dragon background has not been mentioned, the Celtigars are of Valyrian origin.

Quote

Dragonstone had been the westernmost outpost of Valyrian power for two centuries. Its location athwart the Gullet gave its lords a stranglehold on Blackwater Bay, and enabled both the Targaryens and their close allies, the Velaryons of Driftmark (a lesser house of Valyrian descent), to fill their coffers off the passing trade. Velaryon ships, along with those of another allied Valyrian house, the Celtigars of Claw Isle, dominated the middle reaches of the narrow sea, whilst the Targaryens ruled the skies with their dragons. (TWOIAF The Conquest)

Maybe the Celtigars were more interested in mainland Crackclaw Point than the Targaryens?

Quote

The Darklyn kings of Duskendale had tried to impose their rule on Crackclaw Point; the Mootons of Maidenpool had tried as well, and later the haughty Celtigars of Crab Isle. But the Crackclaws knew their bogs and forests as no outsider could, and if hard pressed would vanish into the caverns that honeycombed their hills. When not fighting would-be conquerors, they fought each other. (AFFC Brienne IV)

 

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10 hours ago, Ethenil said:

Wait, were the Velaryons ever dragonlords? 

Not to our knowledge.

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On 9/29/2017 at 9:42 AM, Nittanian said:

Not to our knowledge.

And yet the Targaryens arrange marriages with them, unlike the Celtigars. Which brings the argument back.

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On 9/28/2017 at 10:07 PM, Ethenil said:

Wait, were the Velaryons ever dragonlords? 

They road dragons after the conquest at least. Whether they were dragonlords or not, I don't know. Somehow I don't think so. 

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On 10/2/2017 at 10:55 PM, Foot_Of_The_King said:

They road dragons after the conquest at least. Whether they were dragonlords or not, I don't know. Somehow I don't think so. 

They are certainly not. 

All dragon lord houses died in the doom except Targ (well, one dude survived but he later disappeared in the doom too). 

Velayron is just a regular noble house of Valyria, not one of the 40 dragon lord houses. 

They moved to driftmark much earlier than Targ and they became rich due to trade. 

Some velaryon people rode dragons but they are children of Targ. Like three sons of Rhaenyra and her first husband who is son of Princess Rhaenys, grand daughter of Jaehaerys. 

Corlys never rode a dragon even he is a Velaryon. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

They are certainly not. 

All dragon lord houses died in the doom except Targ (well, one dude survived but he later disappeared in the doom too). 

Velayron is just a regular noble house of Valyria, not one of the 40 dragon lord houses. 

They moved to driftmark much earlier than Targ and they became rich due to trade. 

Some velaryon people rode dragons but they are children of Targ. Like three sons of Rhaenyra and her first husband who is son of Princess Rhaenys, grand daughter of Jaehaerys. 

Corlys never rode a dragon even he is a Velaryon. 

 

 

That's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation. 

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