Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXIII: Pack survived

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The last one before the Long Night

We learned some lessons, we saw some unions and we saw a killing. Sansa learned her lesson and the pack survived. It was the battle Starks needed to win before dealing with the Night King. And Sansa passed that sentence like a true Lady of Winterfell. 

It was a good season for the Starks and the Stark pack will now have to face far greater enemy. Long Night has arrived but for that war, we will have to wait for at least a year.

Until then...

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Posted (edited)

I'm pleasantly surprised that the acting it out for LF plot was true. I didn't believe it mainly because I'm a pessimist who thinks the worst about certain people's writing capabilities....but I liked it.

 

i also liked the very end when Sansa and Arya were joking and then talked about Ned.

Edited by Pandean
Autocorrect changed Ned to Ames???

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I just wish there had been more setup of the Starks/Littlefinger trial.  So much of that seemed to take place offscreen; and we still don't know how and when Sansa made her decisions.  I am soooo glad that Sansa finally took down Littlefinger.  But will we ever know if he had her worried that Arya was going to kill and replace her and then Sansa thought it over and talked to Bran or if Sansa just pretended (very convincingly) to fear a coup by Arya?  

And I really, really wanted the girls to reminisce about the Hound, not to mention their other experiences of the past several years.

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Me too. The winterfell plot didnt get enough screentime this episode.

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In the end did that whole plot line actually make sense? 

I'm happy they didn't completely destroy the Stark-kids characters, but it's pretty goddam grimm when that's what I'm happy about.

 

Also, I think that Littlefinger = savage giant is now confirmed. IMO, Him dying in Winterfell is one of the plot points GRRM gave to the show.  It will be interesting to see how that happens from Sansa's POV.

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A question: Who do you guys think the Younger, More Beautiful Queen would be? Because I feel like it being Dany may be on the nose but I'm not sure if it would be Sansa either. Since her and Dany are the two choices....I mean, technically there's also Yara but.....

34 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Me too. The winterfell plot didnt get enough screentime this episode.

I would've liked if they'd shown us hints at what was happening.

31 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

 

Also, I think that Littlefinger = savage giant is now confirmed. IMO, Him dying in Winterfell is one of the plot points GRRM gave to the show.  It will be interesting to see how that happens from Sansa's POV.

Definitely.

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The look on LFs face when Sansa said his name was priceless.

I liked how she revealed his hand in her aunts and fathers deaths. Everything was foreshadowed him dying via the dagger that helped start a war and Arya being the one to do it. And of course everyone stood by and not offer help since his schemes got him wealth and titles but not genuine allies.

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I loved it when Sansa used Littlefinger's own words against him.  And she said she's a slow learner, but she does learn.  (which is an interesting reflection on her former self-characterization as a "stupid, stupid little girl".

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10 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I loved it when Sansa used Littlefinger's own words against him.  And she said she's a slow learner, but she does learn.  (which is an interesting reflection on her former self-characterization as a "stupid, stupid little girl".

If we know anything by now about Sansa, is that she definitely is not a stupid little girl with stupid dreams who never learns. 

 

I loved that too. Sansa was so regal in that scene.

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I have to wonder a little about the odd reluctance of the show's writers to mention Sansa to Sandor or Sandor to Sansa this season (can't remember if Brienne told Sansa last season that the Hound had Arya with him).  Brienne chats with Sandor about Arya's survival, mentioning that she's in Winterfell, but doesn't say she's with her brother and sister. Does anyone think that the writers might be setting up a Sandor/Sansa reunion next season, and possibly more than one conversation?

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The second Arya arrived in the great hall with the dagger I knew for certain it was a setup, since she gave the dagger to Sansa in their last exchange in the previous episode.

Either Sansa had met with Arya since that scene off-screen or she secretly gave the dagger to one of the guards she sent to fetch Arya and instructed them to give it to her. Either way, Arya had to know she was in no danger.

The leaks suggested when beought to the great hall Arya would be really shocked and seriously thought Sansa was accusing her. Im glad the final version never played out that way.

Arya didnt look the least bit concerned and the almost casual way the accusation went straight to Lord Barlish was well done I thought.

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1 hour ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I loved it when Sansa used Littlefinger's own words against him.  And she said she's a slow learner, but she does learn.  (which is an interesting reflection on her former self-characterization as a "stupid, stupid little girl".

I've always like Sansa well enough, but I've always felt like her arc is underwhelming. People have been talking about Sansa becoming smarter each season, and "playing the Game", and being the one to finally outsmart Baelish. I've long been eager to see that, but I can't say that I ever have seen it. She's certainly not stupid, but she lacks agency as a character. I don't see where she did anything clever here. She admitted the things that she already knew Littlefinger did, which was itself enough to convict him. Bran added some extra stuff, but she and Arya's game (plus Arya's spying) didn't amount to anything useful.

It's just like with the Battle of the Bastards. Littlefinger offered her help, which she at first declined. She then saw that Jon didn't have anywhere near enough men to win, so she went back and told him that she would accept his offer. Then lots of fans raved about her cleverness in winning the battle for Jon, but that was actually Littlefinger's plan to take Winterfell. She just accepted, and neither one of them foresaw Jon being voted king. 

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1 hour ago, Verily said:

The look on LFs face when Sansa said his name was priceless.

I liked how she revealed his hand in her aunts and fathers deaths. Everything was foreshadowed him dying via the dagger that helped start a war and Arya being the one to do it. And of course everyone stood by and not offer help since his schemes got him wealth and titles but not genuine allies.

Speaking of genuine allies, did they forget about Robyn Arryn? Littlefinger was only so powerful in the Vale because he had that little goofball Robyn under his thumb. Yet whenever anything important is being discussed in Winterfell, Robyn is absent. I thought it was silly that Littlefinger looked to Royce for help, since Royce was suspicious of him from Day 1 and he almost had Royce killed by Robyn's soldiers. Robyn would have been the one he looked to for help, but he wasn't there.

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3 hours ago, Risto said:

The last one before the Long Night

We learned some lessons, we saw some unions and we saw a killing. Sansa learned her lesson and the pack survived. It was the battle Starks needed to win before dealing with the Night King. And Sansa passed that sentence like a true Lady of Winterfell. 

It was a good season for the Starks and the Stark pack will now have to face far greater enemy. Long Night has arrived but for that war, we will have to wait for at least a year.

Until then...

I wanted to see Sansa and Arya work together to bring down Baeliish and Gods be good, I got what I wanted. It was nice to see a little come upance for a slimy rat like Little Finger.

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13 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

The second Arya arrived in the great hall with the dagger I knew for certain it was a setup, since she gave the dagger to Sansa in their last exchange in the previous episode.

Either Sansa had met with Arya since that scene off-screen or she secretly gave the dagger to one of the guards she sent to fetch Arya and instructed them to give it to her. Either way, Arya had to know she was in no danger.

The leaks suggested when beought to the great hall Arya would be really shocked and seriously thought Sansa was accusing her. Im glad the final version never played out that way.

Arya didnt look the least bit concerned and the almost casual way the accusation went straight to Lord Barlish was well done I thought.

I noticed she had Needle on her hip too. Would she have been allowed to carry arms if she were truly under arrest?

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13 minutes ago, Lorathi said:

Speaking of genuine allies, did they forget about Robyn Arryn? Littlefinger was only so powerful in the Vale because he had that little goofball Robyn under his thumb. Yet whenever anything important is being discussed in Winterfell, Robyn is absent. I thought it was silly that Littlefinger looked to Royce for help, since Royce was suspicious of him from Day 1 and he almost had Royce killed by Robyn's soldiers. Robyn would have been the one he looked to for help, but he wasn't there.

Is he even in the North? I thought he was still at Runestone, under protection of Royce's castellan?

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15 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Is he even in the North? I thought he was still at Runestone, under protection of Royce's castellan?

I think he is at Runestone. 

Granted, looking to Robyn for anything is a crapshoot at best...

 

I wonder if we'll see more of him next season...

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44 minutes ago, Lorathi said:

I've always like Sansa well enough, but I've always felt like her arc is underwhelming. People have been talking about Sansa becoming smarter each season, and "playing the Game", and being the one to finally outsmart Baelish. I've long been eager to see that, but I can't say that I ever have seen it. She's certainly not stupid, but she lacks agency as a character. I don't see where she did anything clever here. She admitted the things that she already knew Littlefinger did, which was itself enough to convict him. Bran added some extra stuff, but she and Arya's game (plus Arya's spying) didn't amount to anything useful.

It's just like with the Battle of the Bastards. Littlefinger offered her help, which she at first declined. She then saw that Jon didn't have anywhere near enough men to win, so she went back and told him that she would accept his offer. Then lots of fans raved about her cleverness in winning the battle for Jon, but that was actually Littlefinger's plan to take Winterfell. She just accepted, and neither one of them foresaw Jon being voted king. 

 

Sansa is still young.  One doesn't become a political mastermind in even two or three seasons.  She's showing that she is one of the few Starks who can understand and use politics without forgetting her Stark heritage.  

Sansa was clever enough to appear to listen to Littlefinger and be his obedient pupil, while totally deceiving him and managing to trap him and have him killed in full view of his supposed allies from the Vale.  If Sansa had tipped her hand earlier, Littlefinger would have found a way out and made his way back to the Vale or another refuge.  

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6 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I think he is at Runestone. 

Granted, looking to Robyn for anything is a crapshoot at best...

 

I wonder if we'll see more of him next season...

I'm not sure what there is for him to do.

I mean, in-universe, sure, it seems like it would be pretty important for Sansa and Royce to figure out who the new regent is, and for someone to explain to the kid why LF got killed (last we saw, he wanted to execute Royce for being mean to LF and had to be talked down), and so on.

But out-of-universe, who cares? (As long as Royce is still going to lead their armies against the dead/in defense of WInterfell.) If there isn't time to show us who's running the Riverlands or the Stormlands, it would be weird to spend time on the Vale.

If the final episode ends up being mostly wrapping up all the stories, I could see Sweetrobin there, but before that, I'd guess not.

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