Why is Jon's name Aegon?

[Maid So Fair]

2 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

The post being responded to was claiming that the scene is an actual vision of Rhaegar with Lyanna shortly after the birth of Jon/Aegon. So while I have different issues with your interpretation (which I can get into at some point if desired), the specific post at issue was making that specific claim.

Ah, fair enough. 

[Lady Sansa Stark]

1 hour ago, Maid So Fair said:

Ah, fair enough. 

Within your interpretation, how does the line 'there must be one more' work? If, as you say, it's some sort of vision of Rhaegar and Lyanna and the birth of Jon (which I personally don't ascribe to), how does that line fit? 

Also, unrelated to your posts I believe, but how would Ned ever convince Catelyn that Jon is younger than Robb? That would mean that Jon would have to be conceived even before their wedding, when Ned hadn't gone south yet.. Is that really how it's in the books, I can't seem to remember? Babies grow way too fast for someone to convince others one is months older when that's actually not the case. 

[Ingelheim]

There is one problem that Martin will have to explain if Jon's name is indeed Aegon:

-Rhaegar believed himself to be TPTWP when he was young, or so we are told, but then something (or someone) changed his mind.

-He goes on to say that the Dragon needs to have 3 heads. So, first, Rhaegar thought TPTWP was just one person, but later, he changed his mind to three

-Finally, he names his third son Aegon, just like he did with the first.

My question is...Are TPTWP and the 3-Head Dragon the same? If they are so...how does that work? Why do you call your two sons Aegon? It makes sense to call Jon Aegon if TPTWP is actually JUST ONE PERSON, but what if they are actually three?

I've explained that, IMO,  Rhaegar named Jon Aegon because he believed him to be the one and only; his other son (and daughter) being "unworthy" and not part of the Song of Ice and Fire. It's the only plausible explanation to me (unless, of coure, he simply wanted to name his two sons Aegon, which I cannot believe) but then he must have had two different changes of mind.

It would work like this:

1-He believes himself to be TPTWP.

2-He then believes TPWTW is the 3 Headed Dragon, which means 3 different persons, and they must be his children. 

3-He changes his mind again and believes TPTWP is actually just the result of the union between Ice and Fire. He kidnaps Lyanna and has a son with her.

It's really confusing. I'm even wondering if Lyanna named him Aegon without Rhaegar's blessing.

EDIT: Another question would be...how does Dany fit into all of this? 

[Apoplexy]

10 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

There is one problem that Martin will have to explain if Jon's name is indeed Aegon:

-Rhaegar believed himself to be TPTWP when he was young, or so we are told, but then something (or someone) changed his mind.

-He goes on to say that the Dragon needs to have 3 heads. So, first, Rhaegar thought TPTWP was just one person, but later, he changed his mind to three

-Finally, he names his third son Aegon, just like he did with the first.

My question is...Are TPTWP and the 3-Head Dragon the same? If they are so...how does that work? Why do you call your two sons Aegon? It makes sense to call Jon Aegon if TPTWP is actually JUST ONE PERSON, but what if they are actually three?

I've explained that, IMO,  Rhaegar named Jon Aegon because he believed him to be the one and only; his other son (and daughter) being "unworthy" and not part of the Song of Ice and Fire. It's the only plausible explanation to me (unless, of coure, he simply wanted to name his two sons Aegon, which I cannot believe) but then he must have had two different changes of mind.

It would work like this:

1-He believes himself to be TPTWP.

2-He then believes TPWTW is the 3 Headed Dragon, which means 3 different persons, and they musy be his children. 

3-He changes his mind again and believes TPTWP is actually just the result of the union between Ice and Fire. He kidnaps Lyanna and has a son with her.

It's really confusing. I'm even wondering if Lyanna named him Aegon without Rhaegar's blessing.

EDIT: Another question would be...how does Dany fit into all of this? 

The way I interpreted it was that TPTWP has two 'aides'. Rhaegar thought it was him, and his aides would be his two siblings. Then he was convinced he wasn't it, and thought it would three of his children. 

If he for whatever reason thought his children with Elia were 'unworthy', (I'm not yet sure about that), he might have expected to father two more children with Lyanna.

As for how Dany fits in, Rhaegar was a little off about the prophesy and Dany is one of the two heads??

[NexivRed]

I don't understand the constant referring to the vision. 

Aegon had only just been born in that scene, but when he dies he could be anything up to 9 months younger than his sister (who was 3). 

If he was around a year old, then that gives Rhaegar a few months between Aegon's birth and realising the prophecy cannot be fulfilled via children with Elia. 

 

It's perfectly possible the vision can be Rhaegar with Elia deciding on Aegon's name, AND for Rhaegar to also realise he's done it wrong and decides to name his next children the important names. 

[NexivRed]

Why does Rhaegar say "the dragon has three heads."? Is it part of the prophecy text? Or has he made that decision himself based on something else. Because it seems that line was just for Dany, and she had three dragons. I don't think it means there need to be 3 targs or three dragon riders at all. 

[purple-eyes]

5 hours ago, good girl said:

Yes I think the vision of Rhaegar, a woman and a baby in the HotU is Jon's birth.

It has been confirmed by the author that they are Rhaegar, Elia and their son.  

Is this enough? 

[Verily]

Could be possible that Lyanna chose to name Jon Aegon on her own and went against any name choices she and Rhaegar decided on. If so then perhaps she decided to name the child after Rhaegars recently deceased son so that he would still have an heir named Aegon to honor him and his wishes. 

[NexivRed]

Just...no. Baby Aegon probably only died a couple of hours before Ned got to the tower. How is she gonna know??

[falcotron]

6 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

That would be cute if true -- unfortunately, it does not appear to be. The best evidence for names in the North would be the Stark family tree, and the name Jon does not appear on it at all (Brandon and then Benjen appear to be most common). The two characters other than Jon Snow that are introduced to the readers are from the Vale (Jon Arryn) or the stormlands (Jon Connington).

You're forgetting Jon Umber and his son Jon Umber.

Anyway, if you look around the family trees, the impression I get is that it's a modern descendant (along with variations like Yohn) of an old Andal-kings-line family name that's spread all over the continent. Maybe not as ubiquitous as John in our world, but probably not particularly unusual or memorable for a Snow. And the fact that it's not a classic Stark Kings name means Ned's not stepping on his family's toes with his bastard.

And surely everyone assumes that Ned named Jon Snow after his mentor, Jon Arryn, except for the people who believe Godric Borrell's tale that the mother, a fisherman's daughter from the Bite, chose the name to honor the same Jon Arryn.

[Mikkel]

Guys, I have the answer. Rhaegar was quite as crazy as his dear dad. But, rather than burning people and jerking off to it, he just did completely random things at random times for no discernible reason to "let out the crazy" in manageable doses, such as naming both his sons Aegon. Reliable sources that I pulled out of my ass also suggests he wanted to name his daughter Aegonella, but Elia overruled him.

[UnViserion]

1 hour ago, NexivRed said:

Just...no. Baby Aegon probably only died a couple of hours before Ned got to the tower. How is she gonna know??

See that's not true. Ned left Kings Landing in disgust following the atrocities committed by Tywin's men. He went to Storms End and lifted the siege, then in some unknown manner figured out Lyanna was at the Tower of Joy in Dorne. Days, weeks, a month may have passed by that point.

ive often wondered who tipped Ned off about the Tower of Joy. Dorne was not a logical stopping point for him in any way.

[Mikkel]

3 minutes ago, UnViserion said:

Dorne was not a logical stopping point for him in any way.

Well, unless you have a crush on Ashara Dayne, anyhow

[Danya]

On 8/28/2017 at 11:56 PM, Arataniello said:

Yep, it is.  But Ned would have adapted the name.

 

On 8/28/2017 at 11:47 PM, bent branch said:

Except I'm pretty sure that is a hard g.

It could be the way it is pronounced, Aegon is pronouced with an Egg sound at the start, but in keeping with the pronunciation of Aemon it could be pronounced with the A as more prominent as in the name Aaron. Be interested to know how Thoros said it in season 3, sounded like Lyanna said it the same as Aemon did when he died, but we dont know how it is spelt.

 

[Mikkel]

Aegon is Egg-on, that's the whole point of Aegon V being known as Egg in his youth.

[Maid So Fair]

11 hours ago, Lady Sansa Stark said:

Within your interpretation, how does the line 'there must be one more' work? If, as you say, it's some sort of vision of Rhaegar and Lyanna and the birth of Jon (which I personally don't ascribe to), how does that line fit? 

Also, unrelated to your posts I believe, but how would Ned ever convince Catelyn that Jon is younger than Robb? That would mean that Jon would have to be conceived even before their wedding, when Ned hadn't gone south yet.. Is that really how it's in the books, I can't seem to remember? Babies grow way too fast for someone to convince others one is months older when that's actually not the case. 

I think the woman being Elia works better but I don't think saying it's Lyanna is completely far-fetched either. The lone fits because it's the very reason for that relationship and for Jon's birth. It's Rhaegar explaining the significance of the vision, if it is indeed Lyanna and Jon. It works better in some ways because if the dragon has three heads and one more is needed, why isn't Rhaenys in the vision?

On that note, if Rheagar was trying to recreate the original trio, I wonder why he didn't call his eldest daughter Visenya.

I'm not sure how this means Jon is younger than Robb? But tbh I've never really paid too much attention to the RR timeline. 

[Tywinelle]

On 29/08/2017 at 1:29 PM, purple-eyes said:

I failed to understand your point. 

Plenty of things could happen in real history, true, but this does not mean they could also happen in this certain fiction. This universe has its own history and lore which we should follow. Among thousands of characters and family trees, there is no single case that two siblings share same name. Therefore we can safely assume it would not happen that Jon and Aegon both were named as Aegon Targaryen. 

Sure, you could say Rhaegar might decide he should be the first one in this universe who names his two sons with same name, but why? 

 

I'm kinda guessing Jon/Aegon was born after Rhaegar and Aegon No.1 were killed and named by Lyanna.

Again in real history, royal families often used the same name for children born after a child of the same name in the family died.

It's just a name.  I just don't think it's that big a deal.

[Sand11751]

On 8/28/2017 at 9:01 PM, J. Stargaryen said:

The explanation will be that Rhaegar didn't name Lyanna's son, she did. When she gave birth Rhaegar and his family in KL were all dead. There were never two Aegons simultaneously. 

ETA: Never two simultaneous Aegons as far as Lyanna knew. (Though I'm still confident that YG is a fake. Blackfyre for sure, and maybe also descended from Aerion Brightflame as well.)

Have mercy. I'm not gonna review my prior post for where I typed or suggested the word simultaneously, cause I know it's not there.

While I do agree Lyanna is likely to have named her child on her own, rather than it having been a discussion between her and Rhaegar before he left to meet his death, I maintain that it was a weird choice regardless of whether the never-to-be Aegon VI was alive OR not. Either it's two sons named Aegon or it's naming your new son after the dead son of the dead woman your husband left to be with you (which is truly where I believe this falls). Stupidly confusing or crass, we shall see, won't we?

[ravenous reader]

8 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Guys, I have the answer. Rhaegar was quite as crazy as his dear dad. But, rather than burning people and jerking off to it, he just did completely random things at random times for no discernible reason to "let out the crazy" in manageable doses, such as naming both his sons Aegon. Reliable sources that I pulled out of my ass also suggests he wanted to name his daughter Aegonella, but Elia overruled him.

 

(By the reference bolded above, you're referring to D&D of course... )

After your scintillating explanation, I now understand Dany's prophecy in the books, when Rhaegar looks straight at her, saying 'there must be one more... [Aegon]'!

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

"Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked.

"He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

 

[Chilli]

My mother also has 2 brothers who were named Gabriel. The first one died very young, so the next newborn son was named after him. Unfortunately, the second Gabriel also died young. The kids after both Gabriels had died got a completely different name and they all survived childhood.