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Who might be a spy?

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Offer names and any circumstances or other details you have noted that cause you to suspect a character might be working for someone else, providing information in secret.

We saw this with Ser Jorah; Cersei suspected it of her maid, Senelle; Roose Bolton may have been working with Tywin Lannister long before the Red Wedding. A lot of people suspect the maesters in general, since they control reception and sending of messages.

My two candidates are mostly based on guessing and on their proximity to important people: Hot Pie spying on Gendry and Pyp spying on Jon Snow or on the Night's Watch in general.

Hot Pie's origin is obscure - I realize that's true of a lot of people in Flea Bottom. I don't have a lot to go on, really, except maybe his association with pie and the Lord Varys association with little birds and "when the pie was opened, the birds began to sing."

Pyp doesn't seem to do much at the Wall except hang out with Jon's circle of friends. Grenn goes on the ranging and others have key roles in battles or serving or advising or making food. Pyp also has big ears: someone recently theorized that he could be of House Florent, which is known for its big ears. But maybe the big ears are instead a sign that he is listening. I'm not sure he can write, but maybe he passes along information at Molestown - moles would be a good symbolic connection for a spy.

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20 minutes ago, Seams said:

My two candidates are mostly based on guessing and on their proximity to important people: Hot Pie spying on Gendry and Pyp spying on Jon Snow or on the Night's Watch in general.

Hot Pie's origin is obscure - I realize that's true of a lot of people in Flea Bottom. I don't have a lot to go on, really, except maybe his association with pie and the Lord Varys association with little birds and "when the pie was opened, the birds began to sing."

Hot Pie - No.  He stayed at the Inn of the Kneeling Man, so is nowhere near Gendry, or anyone else important.  Besides, if he was a spy, he would be bird-dogging Arya Stark, who is way more important than Gendry, or anyone else around, except possibly Beric.  Gendry isn't that important, anyway.

My candidate would be one of the hedge knights who joined Baelish's service (Shadrich, Morgarth, and Byron).  I doubt that it is Shadrich; he is too obvious and his previous actions indicate a genuine need for money.  I wouldn't be surprised, though, if one of the other two was spying on Baelish.  He is someone a guy like Varys would want to keep an eye on and their arrival is quite ... convenient.

If anybody in the Night's Watch is a spy, I think it is most likely Clydas.  He is in an excellent position to keep an eye on things and send messages. 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Taena Merryweather's true allegiance was to the Tyrells instead of Cersei like she pretends.

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1. Qhorin Halfhand—I'm wondering if he was working with Mance as his Half-Hand of the King. They were close at the Shadow Tower and Qhorin was the one who made sure Jon ended up with Mance. Qhorin was also completely unconflicted in commanding Jon to break his oath to keep the larger goals. I haven’t thought about this indepth, but guessing that Qhorin wanted the Wildlings south of the Wall, but maybe didn’t agree with Mance on the means.

2. Stonesnake—disappeared mysteriously

3. Satin—was a boy prostitute who arrived from Gulltown. LF was supplying boys to Lyn Corbray who lives in Gulltown.

4. Dolorous Edd

Thinking Edd’s a spy but actually one somewhat loyal to the Starks via serving the Royces. Bronze Yohn would want info on his son, and Bronze Yohn may have wanted Jon as LC. The Tolletts are sworn to House Royce. There’s also Stark blood floating around the Vale. In this passage, we are told that Edd has a mule-face. Jon has the Stark horse-face. Edd and Jon part ways with Edd returning to his mules and Jon to the stables and horses. I’m inclined to think he’s pro-Stark, but occasionally he says things which give me pause.

ADWD Jon XII

"Mostly it's Black Maris serving under him, m'lord. Me, I have the mules. Nettles claims we're kin. It's true we have the same long face, but I'm not near as stubborn. Anyway I never knew their mothers, on my honor." He finished the last of his eggs and sighed. "I do like me a nice runny egg. If it please m'lord, don't let the wildlings eat all our chickens."

Out in the yard, the eastern sky had just begun to lighten. There was not a wisp of cloud in sight. "We have a good day for this, it would seem," Jon said. "A bright day, warm and sunny."

"The Wall will weep. And winter almost on us. It's unnatural, m'lord. A bad sign, you ask me."

Jon smiled. "And if it were to snow?"

"A worse sign."

"What sort of weather would you prefer?"

"The sort they keep indoors," said Dolorous Edd. "If it please m'lord, I should get back to my mules. They miss me when I'm gone. More than I can say for them spearwives."

They parted there, Tollett for the east road, where his wagons waited, Jon Snow for the stables. Satin had his horse saddled and bridled and waiting for him, a fiery grey courser with a mane as black and shiny as maester's ink. He was not the sort of mount that Jon would have chosen for a ranging, but on this morning all that mattered was that he look impressive, and for that the stallion was a perfect choice.

Edd’s also always discussing food and here he’s connected himself to rats. Makes me think of the Rat Cook.

ADWD Jon IV

Careful of the rats, my lord." Dolorous Edd led Jon down the steps, a lantern in one hand. "They make an awful squeal if you step on them. My mother used to make a similar sound when I was a boy. She must have had some rat in her, now that I think of it. Brown hair, beady little eyes, liked cheese. Might be she had a tail too, I never looked to see."

Some things about Pyp:

AGOT Jon III

Pyp used his sword like a dagger…

He is also a mummer and claims to be able to ID people by accent which puts me in mind of Varys.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Lollygag said:

AGOT Jon III

 

Pyp used his sword like a dagger…

 

He is also a mummer and claims to be able to ID people by accent which puts me in mind of Varys.

Nice catch!

Varys must have an informant in The Watch, and Pyp's life amongst mummers would certainly make him a suspect.

The name "Pypar" could certainly imply some trickery on the big eared boys part, if we look at it as "Piper" - like the Pied Piper of Hamelin. If he is a spy then one could view him as leading the rats at the Wall on a merry march of his own.

In the Pied Piper story the central character eventually leads all of the local children away from the town of Hamelin - which does have similiarities to Lord Varys and his Little Birds. Although Pyp was older than one of Varys's kids when he joined The Watch, he could easily have been one of the Spider's spys when he was younger.

Qhorin, Stonesnake and Edd are all good shouts too. The Halfhand seemed like he knew more than he was letting on, and Stonesnakes missing status after all this time is peculiar indeed.

Edited by Leo of House Cartel

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Taena Merryweather is the first to come to mind. And I think Lyn Corbray will eventually be the one to help bring littlefinger down. 

Sarella, obviously. 

And Daemon Sand is probably spying/informing on Arianne. 

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I'll add in Missandei. She's incredibly intelligent for someone so young. I always liked the theory that she was sent by the faceless men and Braavos to spy on Daenerys when they learned she had dragons.

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12 hours ago, Nevets said:

Hot Pie - No.  He stayed at the Inn of the Kneeling Man, so is nowhere near Gendry, or anyone else important.  Besides, if he was a spy, he would be bird-dogging Arya Stark, who is way more important than Gendry, or anyone else around, except possibly Beric.  Gendry isn't that important, anyway.

My candidate would be one of the hedge knights who joined Baelish's service (Shadrich, Morgarth, and Byron). . . .

If anybody in the Night's Watch is a spy, I think it is most likely Clydas.  He is in an excellent position to keep an eye on things and send messages. 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Taena Merryweather's true allegiance was to the Tyrells instead of Cersei like she pretends.

If he knew who Arya was from the start, then Arya would be a natural target for a spy. There are theories that Varys was the cloaked man who visited Tobho Mott's workshop to check on Gendry, so I thought it might have been Varys who sent Gendry to the Night's Watch. But maybe the cloaked man wasn't Varys or maybe he didn't protect Gendry once Robert was out of the picture.

The hedge knights at the Vale are all great candidates.

I hadn't thought of Clydas. He is resentful of Sam, so he might have even sought out an outside mentor after he had already joined the NW, out of spite.

Definitely Taena, too. One good plot twist that is left for book readers to discover.

10 hours ago, Lollygag said:

1. Qhorin Halfhand—I'm wondering if he was working with Mance as his Half-Hand of the King. . . .

2. Stonesnake—disappeared mysteriously

3. Satin—was a boy prostitute who arrived from Gulltown. LF was supplying boys to Lyn Corbray who lives in Gulltown.

4. Dolorous Edd

Thinking Edd’s a spy but actually one somewhat loyal to the Starks via serving the Royces. Bronze Yohn would want info on his son, and Bronze Yohn may have wanted Jon as LC. The Tolletts are sworn to House Royce. There’s also Stark blood floating around the Vale. In this passage, we are told that Edd has a mule-face. Jon has the Stark horse-face. Edd and Jon part ways with Edd returning to his mules and Jon to the stables and horses. I’m inclined to think he’s pro-Stark, but occasionally he says things which give me pause.

 

Some things about Pyp:

AGOT Jon III

Pyp used his sword like a dagger…

He is also a mummer and claims to be able to ID people by accent which puts me in mind of Varys.

I do think that the senior officers of the Night's Watch have a secret, and that Jon Snow is part of their plan to solve a problem. Maybe it's just the White Walkers - they realize that the Iron Throne will not understand the problem and have decided to take steps on their own, possibly sending Mance under cover to gain the trust of the wildlings. So Qhorin Halfhand is certainly part of that, if this crackpot theory is correct.

Stonesnake is a fascinating bit player. I do think he is still alive and will turn up somewhere. Because of his snake name, I assume the author is telling us that he is somehow parallel to the sand snakes. But his role in leading Jon up the mountain is similar to the role Littlefinger plays in leading Ned to Catelyn in the brothel in King's Landing and the role that either Ser Dontos plays in leading Sansa to Littlefinger's ship and/or Mya Stone and Myranda Royce play in leading Sansa and Sweetrobin down the mountain to the Gates of the Moon. We could start a whole separate thread on guides and what they mean and whether they have secret motives. Good catch on Stonesnake.

Satin - I was predisposed to like Satin because he seems like a kid who was dealt a crappy hand in life but has risen above it. But I suppose he could rise above it by becoming a spy, too. Symbolically, I compare him to the silk used to line Mance's cloak when he left the NW and joined the free folk. But silk and poison both come from Asshai . . .

Dolorous Edd - There is some hidden meaning in that mule symbolism, and I hadn't thought about how it might make him a half Stark loyalist. That might make sense.

2 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

The name "Pypar" could certainly imply some trickery on the big eared boys part, if we look at it as "Piper" - like the Pied Piper of Hamelin. If he is a spy then one could view him as leading the rats at the Wall on a merry march of his own.

To me, the name "Pyp" seems like an allusion to "pip," a small hard seed in a fruit. We know that "the seed is strong" is part of a central mystery in the books, so that might make Pyp part of a mystery, too.

1 hour ago, KingMance said:

Taena Merryweather is the first to come to mind. And I think Lyn Corbray will eventually be the one to help bring littlefinger down. 

Sarella, obviously. 

And Daemon Sand is probably spying/informing on Arianne. 

All good candidates. I think the Dornish do a lot of spying to help keep themselves safe in a world where they lack military might.

1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I'll add in Missandei. She's incredibly intelligent for someone so young. I always liked the theory that she was sent by the faceless men and Braavos to spy on Daenerys when they learned she had dragons.

Yes, another good catch. Her knowledge of languages and her diplomatic skills might be clues. Since she and her brother were both taken as slaves and forced into service, it would not be surprising if she had been put to work as a spy in addition to her interpreter duties.

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16 hours ago, Seams said:

 

To me, the name "Pyp" seems like an allusion to "pip," a small hard seed in a fruit. We know that "the seed is strong" is part of a central mystery in the books, so that might make Pyp part of a mystery, too.

I like that, it could perhaps play into the "big eared Florent bastard" theories. The "pip" is also usually spat out when it comes to eating fruit - perhaps a hint to Pypar either being disowned by his family or sent elsewhere under false pretext? 

This could also perhaps point to Pyp as being either a liar or bearer of bad news. In terms of the secret agent angle, swallowing the pip of a fruit has been known to occasionaly cause choking and even death, more-so amongst children.

 

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