Aegon the Conqueror vs The Others

[UFT]

how do you think aegon would have done against the real enemy if they woke up during that time period?

lets say hes called his banners and knows about how to kill them

[Graydon Hicks]

i think he could have brought the force of the realm to bare on the Others quickly, still have the problems of trying to kill whats already dead just to reach the WW, and there is every chance that the NK takes down one of the dragons, and gains his own frostwyrm mount.

[Gaz0680]

3 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

i think he could have brought the force of the realm to bare on the Others quickly, still have the problems of trying to kill whats already dead just to reach the WW, and there is every chance that the NK takes down one of the dragons, and gains his own frostwyrm mount.

But there is no NK in the books.

[Graydon Hicks]

but who ever the Others serve, if they take down that dragon and raise him again, then we get martin's re-enactment of the scourge, complete with frostwyrm.

[Kaibaman]

3 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

i think he could have brought the force of the realm to bare on the Others quickly, still have the problems of trying to kill whats already dead just to reach the WW, and there is every chance that the NK takes down one of the dragons, and gains his own frostwyrm mount.

But Dany's dragons are still considered children compared to those of her forebearers who were far bigger and stronger. If the centuries old Balarion, Meraxes and Vhagar were around now, I doubt one or even a few ice javelins could take them down. Plus they would each have dragonriders who have far more experience than Dany does.

[Graydon Hicks]

yes, but that does not eliminate the risk, only mitigate it. let us say that in order for the WW to take down one of the dragons of aegon, it would cost the WW a lot more in terms of corpse soldiers. and likely more than a few WW themselves.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Before or after Rhaenys was shot down?

[devilish]

Aegon would only protect those who bend the knee. The guy was obsessed about dragons. I think he believed that they could bail him out even against death itself.

Visenya on the other hand....

[Aegon1FanBoy]

As long as they know to arm their army with dragon glass as well they will be ok

[KingMudd]

Hopefully better than he did against the Dornish.

[Dorian Martell's son]

17 hours ago, UFT said:

how do you think aegon would have done against the real enemy if they woke up during that time period?

lets say hes called his banners and knows about how to kill them

his dragons would have been destroyed. Between ice magic and weirwood arrows, they wouldn't stand a chance 

 

[DominusNovus]

12 hours ago, devilish said:

Aegon would only protect those who bend the knee. The guy was obsessed about dragons. I think he believed that they could bail him out even against death itself.

Visenya on the other hand....

And one of the kingdoms that bent the knee willingly was the North, the place most vulnerable to the Others.  And this is at a time when the NW numbered in the 10k, isn't it?  And I'm inclined to think that under a disciplined Ironborn commander like Hoare, the NW must have been pretty good at fighting.

I think this could very easily end up a scenario of "What if the Others had been defeated as recently at 300 years ago, instead of 8000ish?

[The Mountain That Flies]

Assuming this is occurring after the Conquest when he had 7/8ths of Westeros behind him, Aegon would mop the floor with the Others. Even giving them full control of the lands beyond the Wall and the entirety of the wildling population as wights, they're not well disposed to take on a serious and organized military commander. He would stay firm at the Wall and slowly/steadily push them back, burning everything in front of him if need be. 

[devilish]

3 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

And one of the kingdoms that bent the knee willingly was the North, the place most vulnerable to the Others.  And this is at a time when the NW numbered in the 10k, isn't it?  And I'm inclined to think that under a disciplined Ironborn commander like Hoare, the NW must have been pretty good at fighting.

I think this could very easily end up a scenario of "What if the Others had been defeated as recently at 300 years ago, instead of 8000ish?

Well Aegon was planning to invade other areas (Oldtown and Dorne). He only moved North when Torrhen mobilised his armies South. If the others appeared during that time then we presume that Torrhen will not provoke the dragons and will focus on beating 1 enemy at a time. That means he will probably go solo against the others by further boosting the wall defences.

The only two ways Aegon and Torrhen could fight side by side were

a- Torrhen asked for his help which I think its unlikely.  Before the two kings met Torrhen was confident that he could beat Aegon on the battlefield. I doubt he would ask for help to someone he saw as inferior especially since that meant allowing a Southern army to move beyond the protection of Moat Cailin.

b- The NW asked for Aegon's help. That isn't as ridiculous as one think. The Targs would later on grow fond of the wall giving them new lands (the new gift). Its still a distant possibility though since there was an invasion going on + most Southern Lords were still licking their wounds and couldn't possibly finance an expensive expedition so far north.

[Adam Yozza]

3 hours ago, devilish said:

Well Aegon was planning to invade other areas (Oldtown and Dorne). He only moved North when Torrhen mobilised his armies South. If the others appeared during that time then we presume that Torrhen will not provoke the dragons and will focus on beating 1 enemy at a time. That means he will probably go solo against the others by further boosting the wall defences.

The only two ways Aegon and Torrhen could fight side by side were

a- Torrhen asked for his help which I think its unlikely.  Before the two kings met Torrhen was confident that he could beat Aegon on the battlefield. I doubt he would ask for help to someone he saw as inferior especially since that meant allowing a Southern army to move beyond the protection of Moat Cailin.

b- The NW asked for Aegon's help. That isn't as ridiculous as one think. The Targs would later on grow fond of the wall giving them new lands (the new gift). Its still a distant possibility though since there was an invasion going on + most Southern Lords were still licking their wounds and couldn't possibly finance an expensive expedition so far north.

The OP isn't very clear but I took it to mean that this scenario takes place after Aegon's Conquest, presumably sometime between his crowning and his second attempt at taking Dorne.

[devilish]

55 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

The OP isn't very clear but I took it to mean that this scenario takes place after Aegon's Conquest, presumably sometime between his crowning and his second attempt at taking Dorne.

Aegon was a rather strange ruler. Normal rulers with little to no army would have accepted the Stormland's offer of marrying his daughter as that would give him an army. Once he invaded Westeros he would have made sure to carve most of richest lands under his direct rule. In theory Aegon could kick Argella out of Storm's end and unite the Crownlands, the Stormlands, dragonstone and huge part of the Reach under his direct rule building the ultimate superpower. Who would dare oppose him? Surely not the Tyrells who would be settle down for the lordship of Highgarden. Neither would Argella who ended up betrayed by her own men and paraded naked in the streets.

Instead he settled for the weakest region (ie the crownlands). I often wonder why such a conqueror would do that and I come to two suggestions.

1- his arrogance. Aegon seriously thought that dragons will always bail the Targs out till the end of time. That explains why he refused Argella's marriage + his early resistance against having a KG + surrounding KL with walls.  According to him dragons would always bail the Targs out so there wasn't really a need to micromanage Westeros. 

2- he protected those who bend the knee. Under Aegon, kings were often allowed to keep their land once they bent the knee. Those who bent the knee first were often given their entire region as thanks (Tyrells or Tullys). Even Argella who was defeated and humiliated was restored as Lady of the Stormlands once she married Orys. 

In my opinion both were shortsighted as

a- Dragons could die
b- Once dragons were dead, the Targs became rulers in all but name. There's no way they could go toe to toe against the Tyrells, the Starks, the Arryns or the Lannisters without begging their lords to lend their army 
c- It gave the impression that its not really that bad to fight the Targs (or any other king) as long as you can time the bending of the knee. The Lannisters were treated as the Starks despite the former actually clashed their swords against the Dragon and the latter didn't.

So to return to the subject then yes Aegon would defend the Starks. He'll protect anyone who bends the knee + he's just too arrogant to accept the idea that someone would dare going against him. We all know Aegon's rage against Dorne. It would be pretty much the same with the others especially if silly Rhaenys ends up dead due to her recklessness. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Adam Yozza]

7 hours ago, devilish said:

Aegon was a rather strange ruler. Normal rulers with little to no army would have accepted the Stormland's offer of marrying his daughter as that would give him an army. Once he invaded Westeros he would have made sure to carve most of richest lands under his direct rule. In theory Aegon could kick Argella out of Storm's end and unite the Crownlands, the Stormlands, dragonstone and huge part of the Reach under his direct rule building the ultimate superpower. Who would dare oppose him? Surely not the Tyrells who would be settle down for the lordship of Highgarden. Neither would Argella who ended up betrayed by her own men and paraded naked in the streets.

Instead he settled for the weakest region (ie the crownlands). I often wonder why such a conqueror would do that and I come to two suggestions.

1- his arrogance. Aegon seriously thought that dragons will always bail the Targs out till the end of time. That explains why he refused Argella's marriage + his early resistance against having a KG + surrounding KL with walls.  According to him dragons would always bail the Targs out so there wasn't really a need to micromanage Westeros. 

2- he protected those who bend the knee. Under Aegon, kings were often allowed to keep their land once they bent the knee. Those who bent the knee first were often given their entire region as thanks (Tyrells or Tullys). Even Argella who was defeated and humiliated was restored as Lady of the Stormlands once she married Orys. 

In my opinion both were shortsighted as

a- Dragons could die
b- Once dragons were dead, the Targs became rulers in all but name. There's no way they could go toe to toe against the Tyrells, the Starks, the Arryns or the Lannisters without begging their lords to lend their army 
c- It gave the impression that its not really that bad to fight the Targs (or any other king) as long as you can time the bending of the knee. The Lannisters were treated as the Starks despite the former actually clashed their swords against the Dragon and the latter didn't.

So to return to the subject then yes Aegon would defend the Starks. He'll protect anyone who bends the knee + he's just too arrogant to accept the idea that someone would dare going against him. We all know Aegon's rage against Dorne. It would be pretty much the same with the others especially if silly Rhaenys ends up dead due to her recklessness. 

 

 

 

 

 

Except in the case of the Others he's got a seven hundred foot magical wall to defend; giving him a distinct advantage. Also Rhaenys and Meraxes were killed by Dornish scorpions. We have no indication that the Others have such technology in the books. If they don't, then they lose the instant any dragon; even a small one like Drogon and Quicksilver take to the skies.

[DominusNovus]

12 hours ago, devilish said:

Well Aegon was planning to invade other areas (Oldtown and Dorne). He only moved North when Torrhen mobilised his armies South. If the others appeared during that time then we presume that Torrhen will not provoke the dragons and will focus on beating 1 enemy at a time. That means he will probably go solo against the others by further boosting the wall defences.

The only two ways Aegon and Torrhen could fight side by side were

a- Torrhen asked for his help which I think its unlikely.  Before the two kings met Torrhen was confident that he could beat Aegon on the battlefield. I doubt he would ask for help to someone he saw as inferior especially since that meant allowing a Southern army to move beyond the protection of Moat Cailin.

b- The NW asked for Aegon's help. That isn't as ridiculous as one think. The Targs would later on grow fond of the wall giving them new lands (the new gift). Its still a distant possibility though since there was an invasion going on + most Southern Lords were still licking their wounds and couldn't possibly finance an expensive expedition so far north.

Excellent point about Torrhen's thought process regarding defending the North. That said, I disagree with the idea that he wouldn't appeal to the South when facing an existential threat to humanity, particularly when the South has both dragons and dragonglass. Torrhen will have numbers to face the Others, and thats it. At least in the present (300 AC), the war against the others can count, already, a fire priestess, wargs, and three greenseers on their side (though its likely bloodraven had a predecessor around 1AC).

[devilish]

On 30/08/2017 at 8:01 PM, DominusNovus said:

Excellent point about Torrhen's thought process regarding defending the North. That said, I disagree with the idea that he wouldn't appeal to the South when facing an existential threat to humanity, particularly when the South has both dragons and dragonglass. Torrhen will have numbers to face the Others, and thats it. At least in the present (300 AC), the war against the others can count, already, a fire priestess, wargs, and three greenseers on their side (though its likely bloodraven had a predecessor around 1AC).

Well no one can be 100% certian of what Torrhen would do under such circumstances. However, from the little we know about the Starks....I think they would go solo on this

a- they aren't exactly known for intel and diplomacy. Torrhen poked the dragon mainly because he had absolutely no idea of the sheer size of Aegon's army. His descendents did pretty much the same thing (Brandon & Rickard had no idea of how twisted Aerys was else they wouldn't have trusted him with their lives, Ned underestimated how powerful Cersei was and Robb would have never placed a crown over his head if he knew how many soldiers the Lannisters and the Tyrells could raise). That is fair enough considering how far Winterfell is from  the South and its politics. There again the same rule apply with the wildlings and especially the others

b- The Northerners has an inate level of distrust towards anyone whose not Northerner. It took centuries before a Stark ended up marrying a non Northerner, even though tbf, they were interested in marrying off a Targ princess during Clegan rule (something that was promised by the Targs and was never enforced by either party). Which again, its fair enough considering that neither the South nor the North (ie wildlings) barely ever bring good news to the Stark domain.

c- What protects the North from the South is Moat Cailin. Moat Cailin is what kept the Andals out and the Starks are pretty much fond of that particularly boundary. The only way Aegon could defend the North was for him to march his army + dragons past Moat Cailin. I can't see a Stark being comfortable allowing a foreigner and a conqueror going past that boundary especially since he' will be taking with him the AWOIF version of nukes

d- In the current timeline Torrhen's decision to bend the knee was pretty unpopular among both family and bannermen and that despite having no chance of winning against Aegon's horde. Imagine how they would react if Aegon was invited in only for the conqueror to decide to change his strategy and force the North to bend the knee instead. 

e- As @Adam Yozza pointed out the North, the Wildlings and the NW are in much better shape than they are after the WO5K. There's a bad ass wall which is well manned by the NW. The Wildlings technology is not that much backwards when compared to the rest of the North and the kings beyond the wall are respected and trusted enough to be asked for an alliance (Joramun). That means that there's nothing to suggest that the Starks cant go solo in this or at least try especially if they manage to convince the wildlings to help.

 

 

 

[devilish]

On 30/08/2017 at 6:44 PM, Adam Yozza said:

Except in the case of the Others he's got a seven hundred foot magical wall to defend; giving him a distinct advantage. Also Rhaenys and Meraxes were killed by Dornish scorpions. We have no indication that the Others have such technology in the books. If they don't, then they lose the instant any dragon; even a small one like Drogon and Quicksilver take to the skies.

I will be very surprised if the others don't have a trick in their sleeve to beat that. Else the AWOIF will end with the North waving at the others while they send waves and waves of zombies knocking at that enormous wall door without ever being able to breach/pass through.