TwiceBorn Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Show bullshit line no 1 as Rhaegars affections for Lyanna Stark were made public a year earlier at Harrenhal which is mentioned in the show. What is supposed to be a lie: that Rhaegar offended the Starks gravely by arranging Lyanna's escape and marriage without her father's consent? That Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and demanded lives of Robert and Ned to neatly clean up after his son? That Jon Arryn raised banners in defense of the boys who were like sons to him? Dumb&Dumber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastManStanding Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, TwiceBorn said: Show bullshit line no 1 as Rhaegars affections for Lyanna Stark were made public a year earlier at Harrenhal which is mentioned in the show. What is supposed to be a lie: that Rhaegar offended the Starks gravely by arranging Lyanna's escape and marriage without her father's consent? That Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and demanded lives of Robert and Ned to neatly clean up after his son? That Jon Arryn raised banners in defense of the boys who were like sons to him?Dumb&Dumber Yes, you are right. But people didn't know that she loved him back and wilfully ran away, got married and had a kid. Hence why everyone thought he kidnapped her... which is the lie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfu806 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Winter prince said: I know other's have made the point but the rebellion started because Jon Arryn raised his banners when Aerys called for the heads of Robert and Ned. This was not a Helen of Troy incident This. Roberts Rebellion wasn't based on a lie. A part of it was, sure. But the basis of the rebellion isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceBorn Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 1 minute ago, LastManStanding said: Yes, you are right. But people didn't know that she loved him back and wilfully ran away, got married and had a kid. Hence why everyone thought he kidnapped her... which is the lie... I know but North is not Dorne, daddy's princess was not to choose her husband, and Rickard gave his word and he was furious since he demanded a trial. Interesting thing is that romantic elopement WAS sonsidered rape in some medieval law system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Brandon Stark deserved to die for threatening the life of a member of the royal family. Rickard deserved to die for trying to save his son by trial of combat. He knew his son's temper. He should have let that idiot Brandon get executed instead of trying to save him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastManStanding Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, TwiceBorn said: I know but North is not Dorne, daddy's princess was not to choose her husband, and Rickard gave his word and he was furious since he demanded a trial. Interesting thing is that romantic elopement WAS sonsidered rape in some medieval law system. That's the point. No one thought she ran away with him. They thought he took her, possibly raped her. That is the lie that the rebellion was based on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceBorn Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 So you consider Lord Stark an oathbreaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gala Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 7 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said: I would say after the Tower of Joy, yes. I would also say that while Lyanna's death semi mended the relationship between Robert and Ned because Robert was in love with her...that relationship was permanently damaged due to the treatment of the Targaryean family (sans Aerys) by the Lannisters; remember Ned wanted the Lannister's punished for what they did to Ellia and her sons ... Rhaegar and Elia had a daughter and a son, not 2 sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 1 minute ago, TwiceBorn said: So you consider Lord Stark an oathbreaker? I'm a Stark hater and as a book reader I bring information from the books into show discussions. That's hard to avoid. I think the Starks were plotting rebellion together with Robert Baratheon even before Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar. Those marriage alliances are suspicious and even a dumbass like Robert would have known back then that the royal family could not allow that alliance to develop. It would have changed the balance of power in Westeros and threaten the Targaryen Dynasty. Aerys could not allow those alliances to develop. Rickard was a dead man the minute he rode south. And he deserved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfking007 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Quote That's the point. No one thought she ran away with him. They thought he took her, possibly raped her. That is the lie that the rebellion was based on. Yes, but the real question is who told the lie? Who spread the word that Lyanna was taken at swordpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 If it had become known that it was a consensual elopement, and that the High Septon had annulled the marriage to Elia, then there would still have been a shitstorm. Robert Baratheon and the Martells would have been furious, and gravely insulted. And, the Starks might very well have been angry that the marriage alliance which they'd negotiated with the Barathheons had just been thrown away. So, one would probably have still seen angry noblemen converging on Kings Landing, only to be burned by Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Brandon Stark deserved to die for threatening the life of a member of the royal family. Rickard deserved to die for trying to save his son by trial of combat. He knew his son's temper. He should have let that idiot Brandon get executed instead of trying to save him. You really believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonslack Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Don't worry, Bran-o-vision of the past will show us what happened. She married willingly for love. He wanted the hero prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 39 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Brandon Stark deserved to die for threatening the life of a member of the royal family. Rickard deserved to die for trying to save his son by trial of combat. He knew his son's temper. He should have let that idiot Brandon get executed instead of trying to save him. That's a pretty harsh philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastManStanding Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 22 minutes ago, Wolf Rider said: Yes, but the real question is who told the lie? Who spread the word that Lyanna was taken at swordpoint? Rumours start in various ways. Someone could have misheard speculation as fact and passed it on, someone could have made it up completely to cause chaos (like Littlefinger has done). Really, it doesn't matter WHO spread the lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 7 hours ago, Mikkel said: This. Either the showrunners, or Bran/Sam are ignorant of the fact that Lyannas supposed kidnapping was largely inconsequential to the rebellion rather than cause- and effect: it was not irrelevant, as it set other things in motion, but Aerys being a complete nutcase and Rhaegar hiding out in Dorne were the real problems. yeah but brandon stark came there in a rage because he thought she was kidnapped. He came there yelling for rhaegar to come out and die and aerys went overboard by killing his father in such a brutal way. But yeah it was what caused brandon stark to go there in a rage. But this is basially what your saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 45 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Brandon Stark deserved to die for threatening the life of a member of the royal family. Rickard deserved to die for trying to save his son by trial of combat. He knew his son's temper. He should have let that idiot Brandon get executed instead of trying to save him. No you may be right about brandon stark but not about rickard. Rickard and the other fathers of the men who went with brandon stark were summoned there by aerys and sentenced to death for treason as soon as they got there. Rickard stark just asked for a trial by combat so he would have a chance. It was just him that was effected by the trial by combat not his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Robert's Rebellion wasn't based on a lie, it was based on rash decisions of badly informed people. Yes, Lyanna disappeared and somehow someway the Starks found out Rhaegar was behind this. Expectations: father, brother, please don't worry, I'm perfectly fine. I really don't like Robert because he's a douchebag, so I married this freshly divorced prince. We booked a honeymoon for 9 months in dorne, will send a card, love, lya. Reality: we have received no ravens today, my lord. Expectations: Your Grace, our beloved daughter Lyanna disappeared and scouts have spotted a party of Prince Rhaegar near the King's Road. Might the Prince know anything of my daughter? Would your grace be so gracious and shed some light on what happened? Yours gratefully, Rickard Stark. Reality: Brandon rides to KL and starts shouting for the crown prince of the country to come out and die. Expectations: Excuse me, boy, who the hell are you and why are you threatening the life of my son and heir? Explain yourself. Realty: let's burn this kid and his father because they threatened my son. (Of course, it was common knowledge that Aerys is mad, so I really have no idea what Brandon Stark thought was going to happen) expectations: so father, this was a horrible decision, let's leave the Starks alone because I just married one, they are our allies. Don't worry honey, we'll get rid of the old man as soon as he falls asleep. Reality: *you have reached prince Rhaegar. I'm busy making babies I can name Aegon, please leave a message* expectations: at this point there's hardly any hope to save the country from a war, but honorable lord eddard Stark could really have done another round of talking, or he could have hired Ser Ten And Twenty of House Goodmen to search for his sister before going into a nation wide war over misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I think the only one who really wanted to go to war with the targs over lyanna (excluding the starks of course) was robert. He was obsessed with lyanna even though he was in love with an idea not the actual women since he only met her a few times and he didn't know anything about her except what ned told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Gala said: Rhaegar and Elia had a daughter and a son, not 2 sons. Yep you're right my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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