Football - City Bid the Wrong Type of Sterling

[Mme Erzulie]

Ben Woodburn - the most aroused I've been by a 17 year old for quite some time.

Love that he and TAA apparently have a got a training ground rivalry (of the friendly sort) with free kicks etc. Excepting Gerrard and Fowler, I can't remember being this excited about Liverpool's youngsters. It's what I imagine Arsenal fans felt about their youth 5-10 years ago, when they would routinely embarrass other sides in domestic cups. 

In addition to Woodburn and TAA, there's Grujic, Ejaria, Solanke, Gomez - all players you can envision having an impact this season.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

I have said it a few times, but I am always a bit cautious about hyping up players too early. There are quite a few could've been world class players that never liver up to that hype.

Remember when Walcott was sure as hell was gonna be World Class (back in 2006), and Arsenal fans were really ecstatic of signing him? Or United's Welbeck (hum, Arsenal likes to stock up on English could've beens).

I could ask our Dutch posters to tell us about Hedwiges Maduro, or Ryan Babel (wasn't he a Liverpool player at some point?).

I could throw in Sukuta-Pasu, who was at some point labeled as one of Europe's promising CF. Or Michael Zepek, who once dubbed as Germany's biggest cb talent, and who was in loose talks with Real as a 17 y.o. 

Does anybody remember Jonathan Valle?

 

[Calibandar]

15 hours ago, ljkeane said:

Spain haven't bothered to play a striker against Italy but it doesn't seem to be slowing them down.

Noticed that as well. With Costa exiled and Morata on the bench I thought that was a surprising line up and not one that I love, but Spain has been known to employ that tactic frequently the last 10 years. Isco was sensational though, and that whole Spanish team is , for me, one of the 4 top favorites for next year's WC ( alongside Brazil, France and Germany).

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

1 hour ago, Mme Erzulie said:

Ben Woodburn - the most aroused I've been by a 17 year old for quite some time.

Love that he and TAA apparently have a got a training ground rivalry (of the friendly sort) with free kicks etc. Excepting Gerrard and Fowler, I can't remember being this excited about Liverpool's youngsters. It's what I imagine Arsenal fans felt about their youth 5-10 years ago, when they would routinely embarrass other sides in domestic cups. 

In addition to Woodburn and TAA, there's Grujic, Ejaria, Solanke, Gomez - all players you can envision having an impact this season.

It was a good goal.. but is he that good?
 

[Calibandar]

43 minutes ago, Notone said:

I have said it a few times, but I am always a bit cautious about hyping up players too early. There are quite a few could've been world class players that never liver up to that hype.

Remember when Walcott was sure as hell was gonna be World Class (back in 2006), and Arsenal fans were really ecstatic of signing him? Or United's Welbeck (hum, Arsenal likes to stock up on English could've beens).

I could ask our Dutch posters to tell us about Hedwiges Maduro, or Ryan Babel (wasn't he a Liverpool player at some point?).

I could throw in Sukuta-Pasu, who was at some point labeled as one of Europe's promising CF. Or Michael Zepek, who once dubbed as Germany's biggest cb talent, and who was in loose talks with Real as a 17 y.o. 

Does anybody remember Jonathan Valle?

 

Wise words indeed, and there are many more examples to be named.

I've not even heard of Valle, Sukuta or Zepek.

Maduro never lived up to his expectations but he was never deemed to be a world class talent IMO. Babel looked really exciting when young and I thought he'd be a smash hit with Liverpool. It's been downhill since.

Players like Ascensio and Isco though, that's another type of thing, these are mega talents. Dybala is another that I am seeing more and more of who looks really legit. Dembele as well, when I first saw him go I thought " yup, he's going to top class". I had that with Coutinho as well before he even came to Liverpool, just looked sensational.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Wales calling up Woodburn to steal him from England paid off, after all.

 

Anyone else see Mesut Ozil's rant? Rare to see a player be so vocal in social media against critisism. Sounded to me like he is just about fed up with English football.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

10 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Wales calling up Woodburn to steal him from England paid off, after all.

 

Anyone else see Mesut Ozil's rant? Rare to see a player be so vocal in social media against critisism. Sounded to me like he is just about fed up with English football.

Yeah, hes got a point, but then ex players and pundits are there to critique players and managers. Its part of the game. Ozil doesn't do himself many favours with his style of play, brilliant one minute, lazy and uninterested the next. He sums up Arsenals problems over the past few years. I think Arsenal deserve every bit of criticism they get, because their problems are the exact same every single year, without fail they will defend horribly, look dreadful and uninterested, have a good spell after xmas and everyone will forget about it.

[Mme Erzulie]

27 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

It was a good goal.. but is he that good?
 

Yes 

I've been raving about him for little over a year to my fellow 'pool fans. Obviously he could fizzle out, but he's got technique, vision, composure and a knack for scoring goals. 

55 minutes ago, Notone said:

I have said it a few times, but I am always a bit cautious about hyping up players too early. There are quite a few could've been world class players that never liver up to that hype.

Remember when Walcott was sure as hell was gonna be World Class (back in 2006), and Arsenal fans were really ecstatic of signing him? Or United's Welbeck (hum, Arsenal likes to stock up on English could've beens).

I could ask our Dutch posters to tell us about Hedwiges Maduro, or Ryan Babel (wasn't he a Liverpool player at some point?).

I could throw in Sukuta-Pasu, who was at some point labeled as one of Europe's promising CF. Or Michael Zepek, who once dubbed as Germany's biggest cb talent, and who was in loose talks with Real as a 17 y.o. 

Does anybody remember Jonathan Valle?

 

Obviously I'm counting my chickens a little, but it's nice to have youth players that are genuinely promising, rather than Spearing, Pacheco, Flanagan, Nemeth and a bunch of other less-than-stellar academy players over the past 15 years I've forgotten about. I think Everton have got some very exciting kids as well (Davies, Lookman and Calvert-Lewin in particular).

Woodburn became our youngest ever goalscorer last season, TAA scored a worldie of a free kick on his European debut, and Gomez had a weak foot assist against Arsenal. It's too early to say for sure, but I'm gonna enjoy these prospects for their undoubted potential.

Isco is on his last year - does anyone with an intimate knowledge of La Liga or Real know whether there's any chance of him actually turning down Real and going somewhere else? Surely playing time won't be an issue if he keeps playing like this?

[Consigliere]

43 minutes ago, Mme Erzulie said:

Isco is on his last year - does anyone with an intimate knowledge of La Liga or Real know whether there's any chance of him actually turning down Real and going somewhere else? Surely playing time won't be an issue if he keeps playing like this?

According to AS (who are usually very reliable when it comes to Real Madrid) claim that Isco has agreed terms to a 4 year contract with the  option to extend for a further year and a €700m buyout clause. I think that there is practically zero chance he turns Real Madrid down as he is going to be a starter for them now. Bale will be the one benched.

[Jordan La Cabra]

22 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

According to AS (who are usually very reliable when it comes to Real Madrid) claim that Isco has agreed terms to a 4 year contract with the  option to extend for a further year and a €700m buyout clause. I think that there is practically zero chance he turns Real Madrid down as he is going to be a starter for them now. Bale will be the one benched.

He is an exceptional talent; so, too, is Asensio. Isco is the type of player that if he were to arrive in the PL, he would be by far the best player in the league. I don't think it will ever happen, though. He is the present and the future of Spanish football for the next five years.

[polishgenius]

3 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Isco is the type of player that if he were to arrive in the PL, he would be by far the best player in the league.

He's obviously really really good, but I think that's underselling the best players in the Prem just a bit.

[Jordan La Cabra]

3 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

He's obviously really really good, but I think that's underselling the best players in the Prem just a bit.

In my opinion, there is no player in the PL that matches him for technical ability or guile and elegance in possession. It isn't uncommon for La Liga stars to arrive in England and look even better than they did in Spain. Fabregas, Alexis, Carzorla, Silva, Mata, Costa and Pedro are examples of that. Ozil and Di Maria could be cited as examples of the opposite, but I think Isco would be more likely to fit into the latter category.

In his position in Real Madrid's XI, at the tip of a midfield diamond, there is no PL player with the quality to replace him, in my view.

[Calibandar]

I think it's a bit much to say that as well. A player like Willian is also phenomenal and quite similar. Eden Hazard when he's playing well is on Isco's level.

I'd pick him over Tom Cleverly though

[Art Vandelay]

3 hours ago, Notone said:

I have said it a few times, but I am always a bit cautious about hyping up players too early. There are quite a few could've been world class players that never liver up to that hype.

Remember when Walcott was sure as hell was gonna be World Class (back in 2006), and Arsenal fans were really ecstatic of signing him? Or United's Welbeck (hum, Arsenal likes to stock up on English could've beens).

I could ask our Dutch posters to tell us about Hedwiges Maduro, or Ryan Babel (wasn't he a Liverpool player at some point?).

I could throw in Sukuta-Pasu, who was at some point labeled as one of Europe's promising CF. Or Michael Zepek, who once dubbed as Germany's biggest cb talent, and who was in loose talks with Real as a 17 y.o. 

Does anybody remember Jonathan Valle?

 

Don't forget Freddy Adu.

[polishgenius]

43 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

In his position in Real Madrid's XI, at the tip of a midfield diamond, there is no PL player with the quality to replace him, in my view.

Quite possibly (though I think if you put Hazard in that position he might be able to, even though he obviously plays a bit wider for you, De Bruyne would certainly give it a go, and there's a couple of others who I think have the talent to rival him as attacking/creative mids in time though they're not there yet) but 'he's better than anyone in the league at his role' is very different from 'he's much better than anyone in the league full stop'.

Like, overall I don't think Isco is better than Hazard.

[Jordan La Cabra]

5 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Quite possibly (though I think if you put Hazard in that position he might be able to, even though he obviously plays a bit wider for you, De Bruyne would certainly give it a go, and there's a couple of others who I think have the talent to rival him as attacking/creative mids in time though they're not there yet) but 'he's better than anyone in the league at his role' is very different from 'he's much better than anyone in the league full stop'.

Like, overall I don't think Isco is better than Hazard.

Even as a Chelsea fan, I would find it difficult to argue against Isco being a better player. As a no. 10, Isco has everything you could ask of someone who plays the role. I think Hazard lacks the cutting edge passing Isco has, but they match up on dribbling and goal scoring. In KDB's case, he certainly matches Isco in passing, but not so much on dribbling and goal scoring. Obviously , there are more elements to playing the position, but those are the first three elements of the role that come to mind, for me. 

Of course, that's just my opinion. But, yes, those two - and perhaps David Silva - would be the closest to Isco's current level.

When I said that I thought he would be better than any player in the league, I guess I assumed everyone would imagine I meant 'in his role'. I was comparing him to the likes of Hazard, KDB, Willian, Silva, Alli etc, not De Gea, Kompany, Kante, Alonso, Kane etc that play in completely different positions.

[polishgenius]

15 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Even as a Chelsea fan, I would find it difficult to argue against Isco being a better player. As a no. 10, Isco has everything you could ask of someone who plays the role. I think Hazard lacks the cutting edge passing Isco has, but they match up on dribbling and goal scoring. In KDB's case, he certainly matches Isco in passing, but not so much on dribbling and goal scoring. Obviously , there are more elements to playing the position, but those are the first three elements of the role that come to mind, for me.

I think where we differ then is that while Isco is more rounded than either, I think De Bruyne is pretty clearly- not by miles, but notably- a better passer, and Hazard is definitely the better dribbler.

[Mark Antony]

Yeah have to agree with rating Hazard and De Bruyne right around Isco. Don't think Eriksen or Coutinho are far off either. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

28 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Yeah have to agree with rating Hazard and De Bruyne right around Isco. Don't think Eriksen or Coutinho are far off either. 

Christian Eriksen is a brilliant player, definitely. I'd say he's still quite underrated in European football, generally. Could be to do with the fact he has only had the chance to play Champions League football once at Tottenham prior to this season. But in terms of crossing a ball, in play or from a set piece, he's right up there.

[Mme Erzulie]

I think you're all overlooking Trent Alexander-Arnold.