Ser Meryn Frey

Was Robert's Rebellion indeed based on a lie?

27 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

This. 

Most likely Brandon does not even go to KL if not for this lie. 

Similar to the War of the Five Kings. Technically it started when Catlyn abducts Tyrion but she never would have done that if not for Littlefinger's lie. 

Now the key question is who lied?

Are you saying the knife did not belong to the Lannisters?

(In the end Jamie admitted to Catelyn he pushed Bran from the tower.  Lannister Stark problem is a real problem, not a lie, and much less a LF's lie.)

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15 minutes ago, Hoo said:

Are you saying the knife did not belong to the Lannisters?

(In the end Jamie admitted to Catelyn he pushed Bran from the tower.  Lannister Stark problem is a real problem, not a lie, and much less a LF's lie.)

I am saying there would have been no war without Littlefinger. Jon Aryn doesn't die and no Lannisters are even in Winterfell to push Bran out of the window. Agree there were problems, but it required the machinations of someone to turn that into an actual war. 

I am just curious if there was a similar figure scheming to start a war in Robert's Rebellion. 

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17 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

This. 

Most likely Brandon does not even go to KL if not for this lie. 

Similar to the War of the Five Kings. Technically it started when Catlyn abducts Tyrion but she never would have done that if not for Littlefinger's lie. 

Now the key question is who lied?

Except it doesn't matter if Lyanna went willingly or not, the proverbial shit was still going to hit the proverbial fan. The daughter of house Stark, a Great house, the lord paramount of the nNorth, who is betrothed to the Lord of house Baratheon, a Great house, lord paramount of the Stormlands, is either abducted or runs away the crown prince of Westeros, the same crown prince wo is married and have children with a daughter of house Martell, a Great house, lord paramount of Dorne, who he not so long ago embarrassed by crowning the Stark daughter QoLaB in front of a large gathering of nobility instead of her. You have three great houses involved in this, each with the pride and honor of their houses at stake. Things were going to get very tense very quickly 

Lyanna and Rhaegar running off together was going to throw the realm into chaos no matter if it was love or not. It was the tinder while Aerys actions were the spark.

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2 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I am saying there would have been no war without Littlefinger. Jon Aryn doesn't die and no Lannisters are even in Winterfell to push Bran out of the window. Agree there were problems, but it required the machinations of someone to turn that into an actual war. 

I am just curious if there was a similar figure scheming to start a war in Robert's Rebellion. 

It was likely a similar thing, but we are not told that story.

In the end, I don't subscribe to the butterfly in one part of the world logic, like Hot Pie is guilty for LF's execution.

Lannisters harmed Bran.  The truth is, a wild boar started the war.  And as far as the characters, Renly did.  Renlyi sought Ned's support before Ned sent a letter to Stannis.  Ned declared for Stannis right then and there, and against Sansa.  The war started on Robert's deathbed, by the Baratheons, and Ned simply declared, incorrectly.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hoo said:

It was likely a similar thing, but we are not told that story.

In the end, I don't subscribe to the butterfly in one part of the world logic, like Hot Pie is guilty for LF's execution.

Lannisters harmed Bran.  The truth is, a wild boar started the war.  And as far as the characters, Renly did.  Renlyi sought Ned's support before Ned sent a letter to Stannis.  Ned declared for Stannis right then and there, and against Sansa.  The war started on Robert's deathbed, by the Baratheons, and Ned simply declared, incorrectly.

 

 

We could hear that story before it is all done.

GRRM did say everything about Robert's Rebellion would be revealed by the end of ASOIAF. 

"We're not doing Robert's Rebellion either. I know thousands of you want that, I know there's a petition... but by the time I finish writing A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, you will know every important thing that happened in Robert's Rebellion. There would be no surprises or revelations left in such a show, just the acting out of conflicts whose resolutions you already know. That's not a story I want to tell just now; it would feel too much like a twice-told tale."

https://grrm.livejournal.com/536859.html

 

 

 

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Maybe will hear more about this in Episode 1 next season. How Dany/Jon both share similar situations. Talk about what Ned actually did to protect Jon. 

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On 9/8/2017 at 4:12 PM, Hoo said:

Are you saying the knife did not belong to the Lannisters?

(In the end Jamie admitted to Catelyn he pushed Bran from the tower.  Lannister Stark problem is a real problem, not a lie, and much less a LF's lie.)

i think, in the book at least, the dagger likely belonged in robert's armory, and joff took it out and gave it to a cutpurse to go and kill brandon. yes its a tupid move, but joffrey isnt exactly the brightest crayon in the box. in the show, i think it was littlefingers. and he planted it in the hopes of then bliming on the lannisters, by playing off his old relationship with cat. whether or not bran died didnt matter to him. that ned's child, not his, and bran is male and doesnt loojk much like cat, as well as not being as important as robb politically.

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