Jon Snow is Azor Ahai but Daenerys is TPTWP

[Ser Joe of Generic Hall]

This theory assumes that Azor Ahai and The Prince That Was Promised are not the same person, for which I believe there is sufficient evidence. It also assumes that Jon Snow is in fact the son of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark and that Lyanna is in fact the same woman as “Wylla.” Similar theories may have been discussed in the past, but this is my take on it.

When Eddard calls Jon Snow’s mother “Wylla” he is giving his sister a fake identity based on the area in which he found her. For some reason, Ned seems somewhat obsessed with House Wyl. Out of all the banners present at the Hand’s Tourney, Ned randomly spots that of House Wyl of the Boneway. Castle Wyl, the seat of House Wyl is situated near the Tower of Joy, on the river Wyl between the Prince’s Pass and the Boneway. One of the legendary heroines of the Dornish First Men was a warrior princess by the name of Wylla of Wyl. She fought a war against Durran Durrendon of Storm’s End. Sadly, she was defeated by the Storm King. Wylla is a common Dornish woman’s name; naturally. It is more than possible that a courtier named Wylla would work at Starfall Castle in service to House Dayne (another family from the Red Mountains). It is likely that this is where Ned went after the incident at the Tower of Joy, because he wished to return Arthur Dayne’s sword to his family. We also know, from Edric Dayne, that Jon Snow was at Starfall at some point before going to Winterfell. It is from his experiences in Dorne that Ned comes up with the “Wylla” story. We know Lyanna had a fiery spirit akin to that of Wylla, so it would be natural to compare the two, much like Arya is admires Nymeria.

In Dance with Dragons, Melisandre tells Jon Snow that “When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.” Many would argue that prophecy fits Daenerys more than it fits Jon, but I believe that the evidence points to Jon Snow. Jon Snow WAS born amidst salt and smoke. The Tower of Joy is situated near the northern entrance to the Prince’s Pass, near an unnamed river between the rivers Wyl and Brimstone. This area is arid and the red mountains are riddled with whitish and chalky minerals that is brackish. Furthermore, before the Stepstones were formed and the arm was broken, the Sea of Dorne was a giant salty marshland that was almost smokey from fog and mists. Presently, the coast of the Sea of Dorne where the river will empties, is called the “Salt Shore.” Smoke is slightly harder to define, but I believe that it is either a synonym for sand (Dorne has infamous sand storms), or it refers to the unnamed river itself, which is one of the seasonal rivers of Dorne. It is probably most comparable to the Brimstone river, which is closest; famous for its sulfurous gases that emanate from its waters because of Dorne’s arid desert climate. Brimstone itself is commonly associated with fire and “smoke.” Finally, he was born under a bleeding star; Dorne. It is much more likely that this refers to the sigil of House Martell (a red sun impaled with a spear) than the red comets. A sun is a star, but a comet is not. Alternately, this could refer to the dying Arthur Dayne, whose family seat is Starfall., but it is most likely Martell. Also, he was born under a “Bleeding Star(k)” … badum this. Finally, Jon is the dragon, and he awoke out of the stones of the Red Mountains, an area where the “Stone Dornish” inhabit the land.

Daenerys Targaryen is the Prince That Was Promised because House Stark was not promised a male spouse. During the last winter, the Kingdoms fought a Civil War; The Dance of Dragons. When hostilities escalated, the black Targaryens entered an alliance with House Stark. A Pact was signed, known as "The Pact of Ice and Fire." Nobody knows exactly what the Pact itself said, but according to the World of Ice and fire, this pact between Cregan Stark, Lord of Winterfell, and Jacaerys Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone, promised House Stark a Targaryen PRINCESS in exchange for Cregan's help in taking King's Landing. Also, left a a cache of dragon eggs at Winterfell. Both Princess Rhaenyra and Prince Jacaerys died along with almost all remaining Targaryen Princesses alive at the time of the pact, so this marriage never happened. Cregan settled for Alysanne Blackwood instead. Subsequently, Aegon III's daughters were asked to marry their brothers. Years of internal conflict and three more civil wars have followed.

Knowing that the Valyrian word for Prince is gender neutral, it is feasible that this Pact of Ice and Fire did not specify whether or not it was a Prince or a Princess.. This is probably what got Rhaegar interested in the whole matter to begin with. Later, Rhaegar changes his mind and believes that his son will be TPTWP. However, in the House of the Undying, after calling baby Aegon TPTWP, he immediately looks at Daenerys as if to infer something. If the pact was made in Valyrian, then House Stark could’ve gotten either a male or a female, but I don’t know many Starks that speak High Valyrian. House Stark was promised a female Targaryen Prince (Princess) because they made a pact in a language that specifies gender. The promise was made in Westerosi while the prophecy was made in Valyrian. Therefore, Daenerys Targaryen is The Princess That Was Promised (to Cregan Stark).

What about lightbringer? Will Jon have to kill Dany? I hope not. I believe that Ice is lightbringer, but I’m still contemplating how it will be reforged and who represents Nissa Nissa (my first hunch is Cersei). Does Azor Ahai himself have to drive the blade into the heart or does it just have to be his sword?” I'm not entirely positive..

What about the three heads? I believe this refers to Jon and Dany's child, because Rhaegar is looking at his own infant child while making the statement. Alternately, it could refer to fAegon, but I highly doubt it.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I like the beginning. There's plenty of room for Azor Ahai Reborn and The Dragon that was Promised to be different people.

Ned is not "obsessed" with House Wyl. But if he had to ride past their castle while seeking his sister and finding her dying, things like seeing their banners at a tourney would bring back memories.

Wylla is not established as a common female name in Dorne. Cregan Stark's son Brandon had a bastard son with a lady named Wylla Fenn. House Fenn is from the Neck. Two of three known Wyllas being Dornish doesn't necessarily indicate the name being common in that region.

Courtiers do not work as wetnurses. The Wylla who is in service to House Dayne was wetnurse to Edric, and apparently to Jon as well for a time. We don't know that Wylla has a "fiery spirit" or anything else about her aside from her association with House Dayne and her ability to nurse infants of the nobles. If you were referring to the Wylla who fought in wars as having a fiery spirit, that wasn't clear.

Smoke is easy. When a woman is in labor and there's no hospital to go to the first thing you do is always boil water. For that you need a fire. There's your smoke. You could also be on to something with the unnamed river. We'll have to wait and see if GRRM has been keeping the name back for a reason.

Awesome work on the salt aspect! Very well done.

The Martell sigil being the bleeding red star is a clever twist but I'm not sure if it works. If the Martells knew that Lyanna was there, having Rheagar's child in their principality, then it would work. But there's no evidence that they knew, and it's kind of a hard sell that they would allow it, given how upset they were for Elia's sake. Try this maybe: the sigil of House Dayne includes a falling star; the Targaryens are red (as opposed to the Blackfyres being black); Arthur Dayne can count as a red star, and there's no doubt he was bleeding as he died beneath the tower. Only thing we don't know is when exactly Lyanna gave birth. Could have been during the fight outside, could have been 1-2 weeks before Ned appeared. 

Jon would have to awaken the Stony Dornish for that one interpretation to work. More likely he is the dragon that will be woken from stone...meaning his Targaryen heritage will be discovered in the crypts of Winterfell, most specifically Lyanna's tomb will probably have a major clue.

The Valyrian word for Prince is not gender neutral. The word in the original prophecy was DRAGON. The Valyrian word for dragon is gender-neutral, because dragons do not have fixed gender. There is no way the pact didn't specify a Targaryen princess to marry a Stark and thus give dragonblood to the continuing Stark line. Daenerys would have to marry Bran for the Pact of Ice and Fire to be fulfilled. It's creative, and I fully appreciate that, but it's not a strong argument.

Ice could be a new Lightbringer, certainly. And the fact that it's two blades instead of one may mean one for Jon and one for Dany, and since they came from the same magically-forged blade it may only take one sword thrust through someone's heart to activate the power in both Oathkeeper (obvious Jon sword) and Widow's Wail (appropriate for Dany). 

If the original Lightbringer exists, there may be no need for a new Nissa Nissa. But that would rule out Ice the only 400 years old VS sword. The original Ice however, the one that was "lost" could be LB.

The third head of the dragon is to help defeat the Others. No baby is going to grow up in time to do that. GRRM also said it doesn't have to be a Targaryen, so there are plenty of options.

Fun theorizing, Ser Joe of Generic Hall! 

 

 

[Romaine3]

There is another sword that exists & it dates back to the Long Night. I feel because it is one of a kind, it has the chance of actually being Lightbringer. The keepers of the sword, the noble house Dayne, call it "Dawn". I'd wager those reading this know that usually a qualified Dayne wields Dawn, but since there isn't a current "Sword of the Morning", could an exception be made?

[Ser Joe of Generic Hall]

14 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The Valyrian word for Prince is not gender neutral. The word in the original prophecy was DRAGON. The Valyrian word for dragon is gender-neutral, because dragons do not have fixed gender. There is no way the pact didn't specify a Targaryen princess to marry a Stark and thus give dragonblood to the continuing Stark line. Daenerys would have to marry Bran for the Pact of Ice and Fire to be fulfilled. It's creative, and I fully appreciate that, but it's not a strong argument.

I thought about this a while. My second opinion was that Rhaegar was the Prince That Was Promised, because he was the first Targaryen to marry into the Stark line (if in fact he did marry Lyanna before their untimely end). And I still think this makes a lot of sense. However, I ultimately settled on Daenerys because she is a Princess in Westerosi and the heroine of the story. It wouldn't make much sense not to give her some grandiose title. I think the Pact was that House Stark will save the Targaryen line.  I'm not sure that it specified that House Stark would continue or not. Of Course, a number of things could happen. If Jon succeeds as King, maybe he does like Joffrey and dubs himself "Of the Houses Stark and Targaryen." Alternately, although Bran is crippled, I'm not sure it says that he willl not have children. Rickon should still be alive as well. Harrion Karstark is also a distant cousin. Daenerys could institute ultimate primogeniture and allow Arya or Sansa to inherit the Stark name. The Starks have more options than the Targaryens, who are down to two lofty souls.

Does anyone else find the name of Widow's Wail rather curious? I mean, Joffrey was a cruel boy and all, but what if it was more than foreshadowing his own death (in this case Margaery being the widow).  Perhaps Daenerys will have to kill Jon to set the sword aflame. He can be resurrected a second time by either Melisandre or Lady Stoneheart could pass the flame onto him.

46 minutes ago, Romaine3 said:

There is another sword that exists & it dates back to the Long Night. I feel because it is one of a kind, it has the chance of actually being Lightbringer. The keepers of the sword, the noble house Dayne, call it "Dawn". I'd wager those reading this know that usually a qualified Dayne wields Dawn, but since there isn't a current "Sword of the Morning", could an exception be made?

It very well could be dawn. I believe that all the named swords, such as Blackfyre and Heartsbane, will make an appearance and be found. I also believe Dawn is extra special enough to the story. It basically has more history behind it than some minor characters. If it actually is Lightbringer and we don't need to redo the ceremony, I still believe it needs blood. Throughout the books there is a lingering presence of blood magic throughout the story. We also know that Beric Dondarrion sets his swords aflame using his own blood. That is, the blood of somebody brought to life with the Kiss of Life from a Red Priest. Maybe that exception will be Jon Snow.

[Free Northman Reborn]

20 hours ago, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

This theory assumes that Azor Ahai and The Prince That Was Promised are not the same person, for which I believe there is sufficient evidence. It also assumes that Jon Snow is in fact the son of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark and that Lyanna is in fact the same woman as “Wylla.” Similar theories may have been discussed in the past, but this is my take on it.

When Eddard calls Jon Snow’s mother “Wylla” he is giving his sister a fake identity based on the area in which he found her. For some reason, Ned seems somewhat obsessed with House Wyl. Out of all the banners present at the Hand’s Tourney, Ned randomly spots that of House Wyl of the Boneway. Castle Wyl, the seat of House Wyl is situated near the Tower of Joy, on the river Wyl between the Prince’s Pass and the Boneway. One of the legendary heroines of the Dornish First Men was a warrior princess by the name of Wylla of Wyl. She fought a war against Durran Durrendon of Storm’s End. Sadly, she was defeated by the Storm King. Wylla is a common Dornish woman’s name; naturally. It is more than possible that a courtier named Wylla would work at Starfall Castle in service to House Dayne (another family from the Red Mountains). It is likely that this is where Ned went after the incident at the Tower of Joy, because he wished to return Arthur Dayne’s sword to his family. We also know, from Edric Dayne, that Jon Snow was at Starfall at some point before going to Winterfell. It is from his experiences in Dorne that Ned comes up with the “Wylla” story. We know Lyanna had a fiery spirit akin to that of Wylla, so it would be natural to compare the two, much like Arya is admires Nymeria.

In Dance with Dragons, Melisandre tells Jon Snow that “When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.” Many would argue that prophecy fits Daenerys more than it fits Jon, but I believe that the evidence points to Jon Snow. Jon Snow WAS born amidst salt and smoke. The Tower of Joy is situated near the northern entrance to the Prince’s Pass, near an unnamed river between the rivers Wyl and Brimstone. This area is arid and the red mountains are riddled with whitish and chalky minerals that is brackish. Furthermore, before the Stepstones were formed and the arm was broken, the Sea of Dorne was a giant salty marshland that was almost smokey from fog and mists. Presently, the coast of the Sea of Dorne where the river will empties, is called the “Salt Shore.” Smoke is slightly harder to define, but I believe that it is either a synonym for sand (Dorne has infamous sand storms), or it refers to the unnamed river itself, which is one of the seasonal rivers of Dorne. It is probably most comparable to the Brimstone river, which is closest; famous for its sulfurous gases that emanate from its waters because of Dorne’s arid desert climate. Brimstone itself is commonly associated with fire and “smoke.” Finally, he was born under a bleeding star; Dorne. It is much more likely that this refers to the sigil of House Martell (a red sun impaled with a spear) than the red comets. A sun is a star, but a comet is not. Alternately, this could refer to the dying Arthur Dayne, whose family seat is Starfall., but it is most likely Martell. Also, he was born under a “Bleeding Star(k)” … badum this. Finally, Jon is the dragon, and he awoke out of the stones of the Red Mountains, an area where the “Stone Dornish” inhabit the land.

Daenerys Targaryen is the Prince That Was Promised because House Stark was not promised a male spouse. During the last winter, the Kingdoms fought a Civil War; The Dance of Dragons. When hostilities escalated, the black Targaryens entered an alliance with House Stark. A Pact was signed, known as "The Pact of Ice and Fire." Nobody knows exactly what the Pact itself said, but according to the World of Ice and fire, this pact between Cregan Stark, Lord of Winterfell, and Jacaerys Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone, promised House Stark a Targaryen PRINCESS in exchange for Cregan's help in taking King's Landing. Also, left a a cache of dragon eggs at Winterfell. Both Princess Rhaenyra and Prince Jacaerys died along with almost all remaining Targaryen Princesses alive at the time of the pact, so this marriage never happened. Cregan settled for Alysanne Blackwood instead. Subsequently, Aegon III's daughters were asked to marry their brothers. Years of internal conflict and three more civil wars have followed.

Knowing that the Valyrian word for Prince is gender neutral, it is feasible that this Pact of Ice and Fire did not specify whether or not it was a Prince or a Princess.. This is probably what got Rhaegar interested in the whole matter to begin with. Later, Rhaegar changes his mind and believes that his son will be TPTWP. However, in the House of the Undying, after calling baby Aegon TPTWP, he immediately looks at Daenerys as if to infer something. If the pact was made in Valyrian, then House Stark could’ve gotten either a male or a female, but I don’t know many Starks that speak High Valyrian. House Stark was promised a female Targaryen Prince (Princess) because they made a pact in a language that specifies gender. The promise was made in Westerosi while the prophecy was made in Valyrian. Therefore, Daenerys Targaryen is The Princess That Was Promised (to Cregan Stark).

What about lightbringer? Will Jon have to kill Dany? I hope not. I believe that Ice is lightbringer, but I’m still contemplating how it will be reforged and who represents Nissa Nissa (my first hunch is Cersei). Does Azor Ahai himself have to drive the blade into the heart or does it just have to be his sword?” I'm not entirely positive..

What about the three heads? I believe this refers to Jon and Dany's child, because Rhaegar is looking at his own infant child while making the statement. Alternately, it could refer to fAegon, but I highly doubt it.

How about a slight twist on your theory.

Jon is Azor Ahai, Daenerys is the Prince who was Promised (who is also Nyssa Nyssa), Jon's sword is his err...you know what...and after "stabbing" Daenerys with it, she produces a child, who is the "Lightbringer" who leads Westeros to a new dawn after the Long Night. But the cost of producing Lightbringer is Daenerys (Nyssa Nyssa) dying in childbirth.

[Ser Petyr Parker]

Post deleted because it was wrong.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

14 hours ago, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

I thought about this a while. My second opinion was that Rhaegar was the Prince That Was Promised, because he was the first Targaryen to marry into the Stark line (if in fact he did marry Lyanna before their untimely end). And I still think this makes a lot of sense. However, I ultimately settled on Daenerys because she is a Princess in Westerosi and the heroine of the story. It wouldn't make much sense not to give her some grandiose title. I think the Pact was that House Stark will save the Targaryen line.  I'm not sure that it specified that House Stark would continue or not. Of Course, a number of things could happen. If Jon succeeds as King, maybe he does like Joffrey and dubs himself "Of the Houses Stark and Targaryen." Alternately, although Bran is crippled, I'm not sure it says that he willl not have children. Rickon should still be alive as well. Harrion Karstark is also a distant cousin. Daenerys could institute ultimate primogeniture and allow Arya or Sansa to inherit the Stark name. The Starks have more options than the Targaryens, who are down to two lofty souls.

Rhaegar's death sadly precludes him from being The Dragon that was Promised, because that person is supposed to defeat the Others. But he and others did think he was the one for a time.

Here's what we know for sure about the pact: a Targaryen princess would marry into House Stark.

That's it.  There's nothing else. It would make the most sense that said princess marries the heir, and the two of them continue the line. No one makes a pact on the theory that their family is going to die out.

The Dragon that was Promised prophecy has nothing to do with the Pact of Ice and Fire so far as we know.

Dany is an excellent choice for TDtwP, as she fits all the criteria with her birth, her dragon-hatching, and her being of Aerys and Rhaella's line. But there is no one heroine of the story, just as there is no one hero of the story.

The Starks may actually have closer relatives in the Vale. The Karstarks separated from the main line centuries before. I think maybe even the Umbers and Cerwyns are closer than the Karstarks are.

[Thoror]

My take is that Jon Snow is The Last Hero (admittedly I believe that due to GoT-related reasons, without book evidence) and Azor Ahai is a third person (it doesn't have to be fAegon... I'm thinking Davos).

[Free Northman Reborn]

The often ignored parts of the Azor Ahai story which I have been trying to fit into the puzzle have been the three methods used to temper Lightbringer until it finally produced the required result. We all know the final step was slaying Nyssa Nyssa, but the preceding two are the more intriguing ones to me.

The first was tempering it in water, and the second was tempering it with the blood of a lion. If we can connect all three methods to a specific individual or item, I think it may help solve the mystery. Unless the first two are embellishments that are not meant to be of significance.

Killing a lion would suggest an obvious link to slaying a Lannister in some way, but I have never been able to link the "water" symbolism to any current House or person. The Ironborn come to mind as a possibility, but I'm not sure if the link is that convincing.

[Eltharion21]

Personally i believe that Azor Ahai stuff in the end will be similar to Messiah plot in Tv series "I Claudius "  in several episodes , mostly episode 11:

Spoiler

( Caligula believes he is Messiah - it influences his behaviour a bit, also Herod Agrippa believes in it  when he revolts against his friend Claudius , casually they find out that one candidate for that was executed 15 years back - Jesus , so at the time there is no clear revelation who the Messiah is) 

There will be heroic and vile deeds, sacrifices and treasons and in the end of great war it  will be left for readers to decide who is AA. Which will come to more theories and threads like these. That is of course if series ever gets completed.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

8 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The often ignored parts of the Azor Ahai story which I have been trying to fit into the puzzle have been the three methods used to temper Lightbringer until it finally produced the required result. We all know the final step was slaying Nyssa Nyssa, but the preceding two are the more intriguing ones to me.

The first was tempering it in water, and the second was tempering it with the blood of a lion. If we can connect all three methods to a specific individual or item, I think it may help solve the mystery. Unless the first two are embellishments that are not meant to be of significance.

Killing a lion would suggest an obvious link to slaying a Lannister in some way, but I have never been able to link the "water" symbolism to any current House or person. The Ironborn come to mind as a possibility, but I'm not sure if the link is that convincing.

I thought it was the heart of a lion.

Anyway about the water... any seagoing family would do. The Greyjoys come to mind first but a Velaryon would work as well.

This presupposes though that Lightbringer has to be forged/tempered/activated again. That may or may not turn out to be the case.

My favorite ultra-tinfoil theory is that Stannis will kill Theon Greyjoy, a Lannister, and then Mel and/or Selyse when he finds out they burned Shireen, and accidentally become AAR.

[irishpisano]

TL;DR

 

I believe Jon is AA (and TPTWP) and Dany is NN.  (Jon is also the main character and the protagonist/hero of the story, not Dany.  He's the only one engaged in the central conflict since the beginning:  the conflict with the others... but that aside)

 

Dany is Nissa Nissa... moon goddess wife of sun, mother of dragons.

When the second moon came too close to the sun it cracked and dragons came forth. Nissa Nissa was said by the dothraki girl to be the second moon and mother of dragons.

I also believe that Dawn is the true Lightbringer as it was forged from "the heart of a fallen star".

What if this "star" was a meteorite from the second moon? It fell to earth and fragments were used to make Dawn? The weapon of the sword of the morning?

Dawn is when light comes. Dawn brings light. Dawn is the lightbringer forged from the heart of the mythical mother of dragons

 

Perhaps Dawn will eventually end up in Jon's hands.  He is a member of house Dayne through blood on Rhaegar's side, so he would qualify to be a SOTM.

Dany as NN may have to die in order for Jon to win... her death will unleash her dragons.... and i would be very, very afraid of the dragons if their mother were killed...

 

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[Lady Blizzardborn]

4 hours ago, irishpisano said:

TL;DR

 

I believe Jon is AA (and TPTWP) and Dany is NN.  (Jon is also the main character and the protagonist/hero of the story, not Dany.  He's the only one engaged in the central conflict since the beginning:  the conflict with the others... but that aside)

 

Dany is Nissa Nissa... moon goddess wife of sun, mother of dragons.

When the second moon came too close to the sun it cracked and dragons came forth. Nissa Nissa was said by the dothraki girl to be the second moon and mother of dragons.

I also believe that Dawn is the true Lightbringer as it was forged from "the heart of a fallen star".

What if this "star" was a meteorite from the second moon? It fell to earth and fragments were used to make Dawn? The weapon of the sword of the morning?

Dawn is when light comes. Dawn brings light. Dawn is the lightbringer forged from the heart of the mythical mother of dragons

 

Perhaps Dawn will eventually end up in Jon's hands.  He is a member of house Dayne through blood on Rhaegar's side, so he would qualify to be a SOTM.

Dany as NN may have to die in order for Jon to win... her death will unleash her dragons.... and i would be very, very afraid of the dragons if their mother were killed...

 

-------------------------------------------------------

Check out my etsy shop:  http://www.etsy.com/shop/MathGuy1618

There are a couple problems with that theory.

Dawn has already been forged and already has some kind of magical properties. There should be zero need to kill Dany with the sword. I'm good with Dawn being LB, I just don't see why we'd need a new Nissa Nissa in that case.

While Dany is the mother of dragons, she's only claimed one to ride and chances are the other two will be claimed by riders. So the only one truly unleashed upon her death would be Drogon. Admittedly he's big and fierce enough to cause some major damage, but precedent suggests he would take another rider at some point.

Jon is not a member of House Dayne. Members of House Dayne are born to a male Dayne, and thus carry the Dayne name. Every Sword of the Morning has had the surname Dayne. However, if Dawn was given to the Daynes for safekeeping, there's no reason it couldn't end up in the hands of a non-Dayne during a second Long Night.

Other than that I rather like your theory. The sun, moon, and dragons connections to Dany are very good.

 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

One theory that I thought that was interesting is that Rhaegar was  AA/TPTWP and Lyanna was Nissa Nissa and Jon Snow was Lightbringer, the weapon that will end the Long Night.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

One theory that I thought that was interesting is that Rhaegar was  AA/TPTWP and Lyanna was Nissa Nissa and Jon Snow was Lightbringer, the weapon that will end the Long Night.

That's a good theory, but it makes me wonder why Aemon said that the dragons prove Daenerys it TDtwP. Aemon is without doubt the most qualified person to know this stuff, and he doesn't think in terms of a person being Lightbringer. He seems to think the dragons are an important part of the prophecy. If it was just about Targaryen bloodlines, any Targ child could have been Lightbringer because any of them should count as a dragon. It's got to be more than just the sigil.

Of course if TDtwP and AAR are two different people, Jon can still be Lightbringer, and Rhaegar could still have been AAR. But...shouldn't he have tempered his, um, sword in two other women before Lyanna instead of just one? Or are we thinking maybe the New and Improved Azor Ahai didn't have to meet that requirement?

[irishpisano]

9 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

There are a couple problems with that theory.

Dawn has already been forged and already has some kind of magical properties. There should be zero need to kill Dany with the sword. I'm good with Dawn being LB, I just don't see why we'd need a new Nissa Nissa in that case.

While Dany is the mother of dragons, she's only claimed one to ride and chances are the other two will be claimed by riders. So the only one truly unleashed upon her death would be Drogon. Admittedly he's big and fierce enough to cause some major damage, but precedent suggests he would take another rider at some point.

Jon is not a member of House Dayne. Members of House Dayne are born to a male Dayne, and thus carry the Dayne name. Every Sword of the Morning has had the surname Dayne. However, if Dawn was given to the Daynes for safekeeping, there's no reason it couldn't end up in the hands of a non-Dayne during a second Long Night.

Other than that I rather like your theory. The sun, moon, and dragons connections to Dany are very good.

 

Yes, Dawn has already been forged.  But that doesn't mean that AA reborn will have to relive his own life and reforge his own sword if it's still there.  He may just pick up his old sword.

 

Of course we're trying to connect a myth to "reality" so there is always some wiggle room

 

as for Jon being a Dayne, he has Dayne blood in him. That cannot be argued.  Just bc it's trough a woman doesn't make it less real. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

16 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

shouldn't he have tempered his, um, sword in two other women before Lyanna instead of just one? Or are we thinking maybe the New and Improved Azor Ahai didn't have to meet that requirement?

Well if we can assume Ashara Dayne was around Elia while Rhaegar was married to her...She was said to be beautiful.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

10 hours ago, irishpisano said:

as for Jon being a Dayne, he has Dayne blood in him. That cannot be argued.  Just bc it's trough a woman doesn't make it less real. 

The rules for who gets to wield Dawn are not about having Dayne blood though. It's specifically members of House Dayne. You are not a member of the House unless you were born directly into it.

46 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Well if we can assume Ashara Dayne was around Elia while Rhaegar was married to her...She was said to be beautiful.

True. And I suppose Rhaegar could have slept with someone prior to his marriage to Elia, and just not produced a child.

[irishpisano]

16 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The rules for who gets to wield Dawn are not about having Dayne blood though. It's specifically members of House Dayne. You are not a member of the House unless you were born directly into it.

True. And I suppose Rhaegar could have slept with someone prior to his marriage to Elia, and just not produced a child.

Aye, the SOTM is to be a knight of House Dayne.... they can make Jon a knight..... that's semantics

 

i think the bigger part of the "requirements" is that the SOTM be deemed worthy of the title.....

[Shi Qiang]

On 8/30/2017 at 1:26 PM, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

No, this is not the case.  Daenerys woke dragons from stone.  That is not something that anyone else can do.  Daenerys is Azor Ahai.  Waking dragons from stone is the sign that proves she is Azor Ahai.  Drogo was her Nissa Nissa.