Ser Petyr Parker

Is Jon and Dany's blood relationship supposed to be a problem?

364 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Why do you think the High Sparrow acuses her of incest for sleeping with Lancel? 

When cersei confesses she frames it as sleeping with someone outside of marriage. 

It just felt that way, what with the "I tempted you"-speech from Lancel.
And Robert was dead as well when she slept with Lancel back in S2.
 

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

It just felt that way, what with the "I tempted you"-speech from Lancel.
And Robert was dead as well when she slept with Lancel back in S2.
 

Whats interesting about that is that when she confesses about lancel she talks about it as being something outside of marriage and the high sparrow also talks about it in that context.... even though as you point out it is weird since Bobbie B was dead

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2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Cousins once removed, which means something like three more bloodlines introduced and one more relation step away from each other. The more you know. 

Oh shit, so you're right, my bad. I always thought it was first cousin. There's so many houses in Westeros that have first cousins marry (like the Lannisters) that Rickard Stark seemed like no exception, but it *does* seem, in fairness, that no recent Starks have had cousin marriages. Well noticed.

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25 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Oh shit, so you're right, my bad. I always thought it was first cousin. There's so many houses in Westeros that have first cousins marry (like the Lannisters) that Rickard Stark seemed like no exception, but it *does* seem, in fairness, that no recent Starks have had cousin marriages. Well noticed.

No biggie :cheers:

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18 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Yea. At this point its chekov’s pregnancy. 

Not sure how they could have possibly foreshadowed it more aggressively without someone looking at the camera and saying Jon is getting her pregnant.

The Imp knows, hence his concerned face. He does not like Dany and Jon together and it cannot be because he knows who Jon really is either.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

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18 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Yea. At this point its chekov’s pregnancy. 

Not sure how they could have possibly foreshadowed it more aggressively without someone looking at the camera and saying Jon is getting her pregnant.

The Imp knows, hence his concerned face. He does not like Dany and Jon together.

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18 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Why do you think the High Sparrow acuses her of incest for sleeping with Lancel? 

When cersei confesses she frames it as sleeping with someone outside of marriage. 

She is accused of incest with Jaime but the most serious charge is actually regicide, which Lancel has confessed too. 

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1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

The Imp knows, hence his concerned face. He does not like Dany and Jon together and it cannot be because he knows who Jon really is either.

Yea. That is interesting. Will be interesting how the Tyrion angle plays out. Its almost like they are doing the love triangle from the original outline but instead of it being a love thing - hopefully - its a bit of conflict for influence with Daenerys. That is what the director seemed to hint at: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/winteriscoming.net/2017/08/30/director-jeremy-podeswa-reveals-tyrion-thinking-boat/amp/

over all that just raises an interesting point about how much of that original outline seems to be playing out just slightly differently:

- instead of jaime killing his way to the throne we get cersei as the lannister that kills her way to the throne

- instead of Tyrion leaving his family to join with the starks and arya he joins dany

- jon has his incest relationship with dany instead of arya 

- potential conflict between jon and tyrion but over influence with Dany instead of Arya 

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14 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Yea. That is interesting. Will be interesting how the Tyrion angle plays out. Its almost like they are doing the love triangle from the original outline but instead of it being a love thing - hopefully - its a bit of conflict for influence with Daenerys. That is what the director seemed to hint at: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/winteriscoming.net/2017/08/30/director-jeremy-podeswa-reveals-tyrion-thinking-boat/amp/

over all that just raises an interesting point about how much of that original outline seems to be playing out just slightly differently:

- instead of jaime killing his way to the throne we get cersei as the lannister that kills her way to the throne

- instead of Tyrion leaving his family to join with the starks and arya he joins dany

- jon has his incest relationship with dany instead of arya 

- potential conflict between jon and tyrion but over influence with Dany instead of Arya 

I see no love triangle.

The show curiously left the full dialogue between Tyrion and Cersei out. Tyrion noticed Cersei is pregnant and his attitute got very sentimental. Tyrion protested much to his sister that he loves his family and her children except Joffrey. Tyrion already is concerned about Dany's behavior (as if Cersei's behavior has been better). Tyrion already convinced Dany to abandon Daario, who on this show loved her and was loyal as she might need to make a marriage alliance in Westeros and then comes Jon Snow, a King, around her age and they hit it off and he brings the North, Likely the Vale to her side and they get it on while the Imp looks upset. Something is wrong here.................The Lannisters are the Enemy and Tyrion is a Lannister after all.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

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6 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I see no love triangle.

The show curiously left the full dialogue between Tyrion and Cersei out. Tyrion noticed Cersei is pregnant and his attitute got very sentimental. Tyrion protested much to his sister that he loves his family and her children except Joffrey. Tyrion already is concerned about Dany's behavior (as if Cersei's behavior has been better). Tyrion already convinced Dany to abandon Daario, who on this show loved her and was loyal as she might need to make a marriage alliance in Westeros and then comes Jon Snow, a King, around her age and they hit it off and he brings the North, Likely the Vale to her side and they get it on while the Imp looks upset. Something is wrong here.................The Lannisters are the Enemy and Tyrion is a Lannister after all.

interesting. your in the Tyrion made a deal with Cersei camp. could be. its not my base case, but certainly possible until proven otherwise. 

for the record, I also don't think there is a love triangle per say. my base case is more that the triangle will be one focused more over influence over Dany than who shares her bed. but that is me taking the director at his word which is always dangerous. 

 

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2 hours ago, jcmontea said:

interesting. your in the Tyrion made a deal with Cersei camp. could be. its not my base case, but certainly possible until proven otherwise. 

 

I think there is a deal, not about Cersei vs Dany, but about Dany's succession. Tyrion has talked with Dany about that earlier in the season, and then Cersei is supposed to have a child. After Dany's death the succession is unclear at this point, and Tyrion as hand of the Queenh wiould have influence in choice of the new ruler.  

I think it's why he is upset on the boat, Dany pregnant would ruin this plan, which will no longer exist anyway if Jon's parentage is revealed.

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1 hour ago, valgrel said:

I think there is a deal, not about Cersei vs Dany, but about Dany's succession. Tyrion has talked with Dany about that earlier in the season, and then Cersei is supposed to have a child. After Dany's death the succession is unclear at this point, and Tyrion as hand of the Queenh wiould have influence in choice of the new ruler.  

I think it's why he is upset on the boat, Dany pregnant would ruin this plan, which will no longer exist anyway if Jon's parentage is revealed.

Or when its found out cersei betrayed the living 

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18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Or when its found out cersei betrayed the living 

Not so sure of that, the child would always be also Jaime's and Tyrion's niece/nephew.

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1 hour ago, valgrel said:

Not so sure of that, the child would always be also Jaime's and Tyrion's niece/nephew.

What was the deal in your mind?

Tyrion somehow gets Cersei’s baby named as Dany’s successor. And in return Tyrion got Cersei to do what? Pretend to go up North?

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I'm not sure if Tyrion thought that Cersei would really help or not. But the result of the deal is that Dany's armies moved north to face the main threat. Without that the North and the 7K were lost. Cersei would have to be dealt with later in any case, betrayal or not.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, valgrel said:

I'm not sure if Tyrion thought that Cersei would really help or not. But the result of the deal is that Dany's armies moved north to face the main threat. Without that the North and the 7K were lost. Cersei would have to be dealt with later in any case, betrayal or not.

 

 

So Cersei negotiated a deal with Tyrion to send her armies north in return for her baby being dany’s heir even though there is no way Tyrion could guarantee that. Then she broke agreement. Why would she do that? Does she still expect Tyrion to honor his side of the deal?

Edited by jcmontea

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19 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

So Cersei negotiated a deal with Tyrion to send her armies north in return for her baby being dany’s heir even though there is no way Tyrion could guarantee that. Then she broke agreement. Why would she do that? Does she still expect Tyrion to honor his side of the deal?

No she doesn't, her hope is Jon/Dany's defeat or at least that they are weakened enough to win the final battle against them. Then she doesn't need anything from Tyrion.

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26 minutes ago, valgrel said:

No she doesn't, her hope is Jon/Dany's defeat or at least that they are weakened enough to win the final battle against them. Then she doesn't need anything from Tyrion.

well we will see. But count me very skeptical of the Tyrion negotating to get Cersei’s baby on the throne theory. 

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10 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

well we will see. But count me very skeptical of the Tyrion negotating to get Cersei’s baby on the throne theory. 

I understand that :) . I'm only desperatly seeking for one smart Tyrion's idea in season 7...

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1 hour ago, valgrel said:

I understand that :) . I'm only desperatly seeking for one smart Tyrion's idea in season 7...

I actually don’t think that is a smart idea on his part. One its totally inpractical. How is he going go get a baby named as Dany’s heir?

But big picture he is promising something he can’t deliever that would guarantee he would be Drogon’s afternoon snack if Daenerys ever found out to get Cersei to agree to something she already was going to agree to anyway? 

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