Season 8 Predictions?

[Meera of Tarth]

13 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I think this is meant to be his fate. The show did it early so the Stark reunion would be more tragic when Bran doesn't even care and hardly exists anymore. 

But it's a retcon. They came up with it between season 6 and 7. He was clearly normal when he was interacting with Benjen at the end of season 6. So the line where Meera says that Bran died in the cave rings rather false. More like he died off-screen in-between seasons.

It's a possibilty. I am not sure though. I have not always bought the idea of this fate, 'cause there is something in his chapters that says to me he is gonna end up being Lord or King. But well, I am a bit clueless, in fact. There could be other possibilities I have not explored.

It happened off-season, indeed. That also smells odd. I think that s7 was all invented and they needed him not to behave ok so as that he didn't discover that Arya was not really trying to kill Sansa, so as to make the awful WF plot work. I also think that they like doing twists, and I see no reason in thinking he won't recover and spoiling his fate so as that the audience doesn't care about his final "battles". A twist, even if it means having a tragic ending makes more sense to me so as to make the audience get more invested again.-

[Meera of Tarth]

14 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

do they want people to get invested in what happens to him? Based on the way they treat the character its not clear he is supposed to be someone we are supposed to care about. Its almost like they heard everyone thought he was boring during seasons 1-4 so they kept him off screen for a year and then kept him to as little screen time as possible to serve his functional role in the plot and nothing more. 

No, they absolutely have their favourites, but they don't even treat theirs always the same way. Let's take the example of Tyrion. He is without doubts one of the showrunners favourites, Martin's fav, and an audience fav but this season (and part of s6) he has been pretty much useless and has comitted terrible mistakes. People have not liked that. I think that characters have made no sense due to make their plots (the invented one of the wight hunt and the WF Prom Queen Games) work.

There is no reason to believe that they'd not want people to get invested in each and all of the remaining characters alive so as that their detahs or bittersweet endings (or even happy endings but with uncertainties) are more epic onscreen. We can take the example of the wight hunt with Tormund, they said they wanted us to believe that he'd be dead, and he is a secondary character but they have made him more amicable so as that people care when he is about to die, etc. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Faera said:

Exactly, and if that is all it is -- why not just let the NK destroy KL? At least he has a reason to do it that wouldn't feel utter contrived.

If it was the normal Bran who found seeing a talking Hodor to be the best thing since sliced bread, the moral dilemma would mean something. To God-tier!Bran, you'd have your utilitarian-ending but when a character lacks a sense of shame it means nothing because not only will he struggle with his choice -- he won't care what other characters think.

It doesn't matter, though. As I already said, such a scenario involving Bran warging a dragon to attack KL would be more contrived and nonsensical than the bloody wight hunt!

Also I'll bring in that the NK doesn't have a good reason to destroy KL. He wants bodies to survive so he can revive them. He has good reason to invade not burn KL.

Because of his visions, Bran knows that KL is filled with wildfire that the Mad King has set up. We know he can warg animals. We know that the Army of the Dead's weakness is fire. We know that Jon thinks Bran smells of death. We know that a new god is meant to be born from the mass graves. We know that there's a third shocking moment that GRRM told D & D and that the first two involved Bran and Stannis sacrificing Hodor and Shireen. We know that Drogon has been compared to a Burning Sword above the world (like an executioner's blade). We saw Jojen's hand go up in flames when he told Bran that he'll know the end. We know that Jojen keeps harping on about how Bran is the most important person.

Individually, this could all be safely ignored but altogether, it forms a very clear tapestry. 

There's no real worth in the NK blowing it up because he's even less of a character than Bran. It's just a killing demon performing mass murder.

Even if Bran is emotionless on the show(which he won't be in the books), there's still merit to it because of how the heroes respond to what Bran did to win and the consequences of Daenerys' own dragon with Daenerys on top being blamed for it by the people.

War isn't clean. War is sacrifice.

[Meera of Tarth]

25 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

 More contrived and also less symbolically rich. At least with the white hunt I can actually see some interesting themes and choices the characters had to face even if the execution was spotty. God-tier!Bran has zero interesting choices. 

 

So I chatted on redit with the guy behind this page which has the best analysis of GoT music I have found so far. https://www.youtube.com/user/TheHunterYTV/featured?disable_polymer=1

He mentioned a few interesting things regarding the House of the Undying Music: 

1.) He said it is indeed the White Walkers music and its pretty obviously so. So ultimately what that means for the plot who knows but the idea of the NK being responsible for the destruction of the Red Keep looks pretty solid. 

2.) Interestingly he also made the observation that Dany's theme - Love in the Eyes - plays on a descending scale with minor notes when she approaches the throne. So this could be foreshadowing for potentially her dying during the destruction of King's Landing. Or it could just be musical reinforcement for all the other clues in the scene that she is not the rightful heir: her pulling away from the throne and not touching it, Snow falling on it, the blue rose in the window when she walks in to the throne room etc. 

 

 

Interesting

[Lord_Ravenstone]

28 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

They either flubbed it or its a strong indication that they are not doing it. 

 

In the S4Ep2 inside the episode, D&D specify that the visions which Bran sees upon touching the Weirwood Tree will all pertain to the destiny laid out for him specifically when he masters the abilities of the Three Eyed Raven. They state that of all of these visions, the most crucial shot is of shadow of a dragon flying over King’s Landing.This shot is seemingly from the perspective of a dragon, and Benioff poses the question; “is this shot from the past, or is it from the future?” He says we will have to find out, which in this context almost certainly means it pertains to Bran’s future.

 

Putting it all together:

1. All of the S4Ep2 visions specifically relate to Bran’s destiny upon mastering the powers of the Three Eyed Raven.
2. The showrunners state that the most crucial of Bran’s visions is a dragon’s eye view over King’s Landing.
3. Bran can skinchange things at long range.
4. In Bran’s S6Ep6 visions, wildfire, along with the phrase “Burn them all!” is repeatedly accompanied by visions of the Others.
5. According to Jojen and UnBenjen, Bran’s purpose has always been stopping the Night King and the army of the dead.
6. Both Bran and Daenerys have seen visions of a snowy, ruined Red Keep.
7. In the season 7 finale, Jon brings up the population of King’s Landing.
8. In the season 7 finale, Cersei has expresses a willingness to abandon King’s Landing if the dead come.
9. Despite Dany’s war with Cersei, King’s Landing still hasn’t burned down yet.

[jcmontea]

18 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Also I'll bring in that the NK doesn't have a good reason to destroy KL. He wants bodies to survive so he can revive them. He has good reason to invade not burn KL.

Because of his visions, Bran knows that KL is filled with wildfire that the Mad King has set up. We know he can warg animals. We know that the Army of the Dead's weakness is fire. We know that Jon thinks Bran smells of death. We know that a new god is meant to be born from the mass graves. We know that there's a third shocking moment that GRRM told D & D and that the first two involved Bran and Stannis sacrificing Hodor and Shireen. We know that Drogon has been compared to a Burning Sword above the world (like an executioner's blade). We saw Jojen's hand go up in flames when he told Bran that he'll know the end. We know that Jojen keeps harping on about how Bran is the most important person.

Individually, this could all be safely ignored but altogether, it forms a very clear tapestry. 

There's no real worth in the NK blowing it up because he's even less of a character than Bran. It's just a killing demon performing mass murder.

Even if Bran is emotionless on the show(which he won't be in the books), there's still merit to it because of how the heroes respond to what Bran did to win and the consequences of Daenerys' own dragon with Daenerys on top being blamed for it by the people.

War isn't clean. War is sacrifice.

lol! the idea of Daenerys getting the blame is the stupidest thing about the theory. It amateurish to be frank.

Its like someone couldn't decide which theory they wanted to go with so they decided to combine them. 

Its stupid because it betrays the cardinal rule of tragic drama: a characters downfall needs to be connected to their own flaws. Mad Queen theory was interesting because Daenerys has a flaw around black and white insanity. She has done things to mitigate that flaw - she tends to discuss things a lot with her advisors, she gets advisors who push back on her - but if you wanted to make the story a tragic one the flaw is there. 

So that flaw leading to her downfall could potentially lead to good tragedy. But if you give her a mad queen moment and its not even rooted in her decision or her flaws and is just the fact that GOD decides to take the controls at the moment its just really bad writing. 

Just one example of how contrived the theory is. 

 

[jcmontea]

37 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

In the S4Ep2 inside the episode, D&D specify that the visions which Bran sees upon touching the Weirwood Tree will all pertain to the destiny laid out for him specifically when he masters the abilities of the Three Eyed Raven. They state that of all of these visions, the most crucial shot is of shadow of a dragon flying over King’s Landing.This shot is seemingly from the perspective of a dragon, and Benioff poses the question; “is this shot from the past, or is it from the future?” He says we will have to find out, which in this context almost certainly means it pertains to Bran’s future.

 

Putting it all together:

1. All of the S4Ep2 visions specifically relate to Bran’s destiny upon mastering the powers of the Three Eyed Raven.
2. The showrunners state that the most crucial of Bran’s visions is a dragon’s eye view over King’s Landing.
3. Bran can skinchange things at long range.
4. In Bran’s S6Ep6 visions, wildfire, along with the phrase “Burn them all!” is repeatedly accompanied by visions of the Others.
5. According to Jojen and UnBenjen, Bran’s purpose has always been stopping the Night King and the army of the dead.
6. Both Bran and Daenerys have seen visions of a snowy, ruined Red Keep.
7. In the season 7 finale, Jon brings up the population of King’s Landing.
8. In the season 7 finale, Cersei has expresses a willingness to abandon King’s Landing if the dead come.
9. Despite Dany’s war with Cersei, King’s Landing still hasn’t burned down yet.

You are just repeating the article. 

[jcmontea]

39 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Interesting

He said he will make a video of the scene. Will be interesting. I personally can’t pick up those subtelties when they are playing the theme with minor or major notes etc. 

[Meera of Tarth]

9 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

He said he will make a video of the scene. Will be interesting. I personally can’t pick up those subtelties when they are playing the theme with minor or major notes etc. 

The channel is great. Yeah, I'm not fan of Jonerys, but it was interesting to know that there were pieces of Jon-Ygritte and Dany-Jorah as well mixed. I had picked the latter when watching but not the Ygritte one.

Now I was listening to the Baratheon video and he said that he thinks that Gendry could be King according to the music. He also mentions that he will make a video on Arya's music and that in some scenes of her the Baratheon music can be Heard very subtlety. 

@Cridefea I think you'd like that channel.

[Meera of Tarth]

48 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

In the S4Ep2 inside the episode, D&D specify that the visions which Bran sees upon touching the Weirwood Tree will all pertain to the destiny laid out for him specifically when he masters the abilities of the Three Eyed Raven. They state that of all of these visions, the most crucial shot is of shadow of a dragon flying over King’s Landing.This shot is seemingly from the perspective of a dragon, and Benioff poses the question; “is this shot from the past, or is it from the future?” He says we will have to find out, which in this context almost certainly means it pertains to Bran’s future.

Oh thanks, it's very interesting.

This visioon has appeared twice IIRC in the show, the other in s6 along with the other visions of Burn them All, etc, and they also said they were all there for a reason. Whatever that scene means, it seems that at least a dragon will fly over KL. The odd thing is that we don't see snow in the roofs, just like the scene of the HOTU had a posible goof/something we don't already understand, as @Cridefea had pointed out.

But those two visions will be important in season 8 for sure.

[jcmontea]

11 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

The channel is great. Yeah, I'm not fan of Jonerys, but it was interesting to know that there were pieces of Jon-Ygritte and Dany-Jorah as well mixed. I had picked the latter when watching but not the Ygritte one.

Now I was listening to the Baratheon video and he said that he thinks that Gendry could be King according to the music. He also mentions that he will make a video on Arya's music and that in some scenes of her the Baratheon music can be Heard very subtlety. 

I am skeptical of King Gendry. Personally my take is more that Gendry will be the resurection of the House after Stannis lead it to ruin but not all the way back to being King. But who knows the music does not lie and if he says that is what it could mean than have to take it seriously. 

Gendrya I totally buy. I can’t wait for that Arya video to come out. 

Yea he pretty much built the channel by analyzing what eventually became Truth. The other interesting part is that in the part of the theme that plays during Rheagar and Lyanna’s wedding, its a mix of Blood of my Blood and Goodbye Brother two other Targaryen and Stark themes before it transitions to the part in the song where its a mixture of Love in the Eyes and You Know Nothing. 

[Meera of Tarth]

Bran's visions in s6 slow motion 

 

[jcmontea]

8 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Bran's visions in s6 slow motion 

 

This whole thing is going to climax at KL somehow with dragonfire. That much we know for sure.

Will be interesting how it happens. Hopefully it will be satisfying. 

It is interesting that the Aerys was repeating Burn them All non stop similarly to how Hodor was repeating Hold the Door non stop and that they showed that right afterwards in the very next episode. 

[jcmontea]

Speaking of Bran and Season 8.... John Bradley had an interesting interview talking about the Sam and Bran dynamic duo:

http://watchersonthewall.com/john-bradley-hints-sam-bran-will-remain-formidable-team-season-8/#more-157138

[AEJON TARGARYEN]

How will Sansa fare next season without Littlefinger in her ear?
It’s going to be tricky for her, because at the end of last season, she felt that she had everything set up. She had her family back together. They were in control of the North again. This season, there’s a new threat, and all of a sudden she finds herself somewhat back in the deep end. And without Littlefinger, it’s a test for her of whether she can get through it. It’s a big challenge for her, without this master manipulator having her back. This season is more a passionate fight for her than a political, manipulative kind of fight.

Is that because this season she faces less a political threat and more an existential, zombie sort of threat?
Well, I don’t know. We’ll have to see.

Where are you at in production on season eight?
We started in October, so we’re maybe like a tenth of the way through. [Laughs.] No, no, we’ve got six or seven months left.

Confirmed: “Game of Thrones” comes out in 2019.

Source: http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-sophie-turner-season-8-premiere-date-1202632602/

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, jcmontea said:

lol! the idea of Daenerys getting the blame is the stupidest thing about the theory. It amateurish to be frank.

Its like someone couldn't decide which theory they wanted to go with so they decided to combine them. 

Its stupid because it betrays the cardinal rule of tragic drama: a characters downfall needs to be connected to their own flaws. Mad Queen theory was interesting because Daenerys has a flaw around black and white insanity. She has done things to mitigate that flaw - she tends to discuss things a lot with her advisors, she gets advisors who push back on her - but if you wanted to make the story a tragic one the flaw is there. 

So that flaw leading to her downfall could potentially lead to good tragedy. But if you give her a mad queen moment and its not even rooted in her decision or her flaws and is just the fact that GOD decides to take the controls at the moment its just really bad writing. 

Just one example of how contrived the theory is. 

 

That's not Daenerys' downfall though. It's just another obstacle in her way that she pushes past to become the Protector of the Realm. Doesn't matter that the people don't want her anymore. In her eyes, she's still queen and has a duty to save the people.

It's a consequence that she deals with for bringing "WMDs" to Westeros. 

Note: I'm not the one that relates them WMDs or nukes. GRRM did that.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

I am skeptical of King Gendry. Personally my take is more that Gendry will be the resurection of the House after Stannis lead it to ruin but not all the way back to being King. But who knows the music does not lie and if he says that is what it could mean than have to take it seriously. 

Gendrya I totally buy. I can’t wait for that Arya video to come out. 

Yea he pretty much built the channel by analyzing what eventually became Truth. The other interesting part is that in the part of the theme that plays during Rheagar and Lyanna’s wedding, its a mix of Blood of my Blood and Goodbye Brother two other Targaryen and Stark themes before it transitions to the part in the song where its a mixture of Love in the Eyes and You Know Nothing. 

GRRM said that Arya and Gendry have separate futures.

That said, I could buy King Gendry in the show and King Edric in the books.

[Angel Eyes]

27 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

GRRM said that Arya and Gendry have separate futures.

That said, I could buy King Gendry in the show and King Edric in the books.

Perhaps a bastard will wind up on the throne, ala King Arthur.

[jcmontea]

37 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

That's not Daenerys' downfall though. It's just another obstacle in her way that she pushes past to become the Protector of the Realm. Doesn't matter that the people don't want her anymore. In her eyes, she's still queen and has a duty to save the people.

It's a consequence that she deals with for bringing "WMDs" to Westeros. 

Note: I'm not the one that relates them WMDs or nukes. GRRM did that.

Sorry man. Maybe the story will go there but I think its horrible writing. 

If you want her to deal with the consequences of bringing WMDs to Westeros, than it makes way more sense to do with what the show has done which is have one of her weapons fall into enemy hands because of a choice she made to take them into battle despite seeing they were vulnerable and being warned she was throwing everything away by her closest advisor.

You don’t have her deal with the consequences of bringing WMDs to Westeros by having GOD take over one of those WMDs and win the war by using her WMDs . Thats super shitty writing because its not directly tied to her decisions and its not even a metaphor for real life since GOD does not take over weapons in real life. 

WMDs do proliferate in real life though so if they are going to explore that angle than doing it through the damage the NK does makes way more sense. 

And it is her downfall in that theory. All her goals are gone and done. She loses everything and then does some heroic sacrifice afterwards. Which is another reason why the theory is stupid because it cheapens her supposed heroic sacrifice afterwards since she has already lost everything. Sacrifice is interesting when you actually have something to live for. Sacrifice is interesting when you have something to atone for. In this case its some bizaro world where its neither death by redemption because she did nothing wrong as her WMD literally just was used by GOD to save the world but its also not as meaninful as The Too Cool to Live heroic sacrifice since she has effectively lost everything. 

Its really an atrocious theory that is trying to mash everything into one and trying to do too much which  results in it frankly sucking. 

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Speaking of Bran and Season 8.... John Bradley had an interesting interview talking about the Sam and Bran dynamic duo:

http://watchersonthewall.com/john-bradley-hints-sam-bran-will-remain-formidable-team-season-8/#more-157138

THE KNOWLEDGE DEPARTMENT, i love it