Season 8 Predictions?

[Apoplexy]

18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

It is weird for sure. Even weirder than Rhaenyra naming her eldest with Daemon Aegon even though Alicent already had an Aegon. 

Had they both lived it would have been another Aegon the Elder and Aegon the Younger situation. 

Elia probably would have taken it for a slight as Alicent did and who knows maybe it was. 

As I write that I cannot help but think its weird that the first dance of the dragons revolved around a Rhaenrya and two Aegons and we might get a second dance of the dragons and you have a Daenerys and possibly two Aegons on the board (assuming Jon’s name is the same as the books)

 

We don't know too much about Rhaegar, but if he was really prophecy obsessed, he may have wanted the PTWP to have the name Aegon. If he was convinced somehow that his son with Lyanna was the PTWP, he could've easily chosen the name Aegon for Jon.

[Adaneth]

1 hour ago, Faera said:

Ordinarily, yes, but his quote was more a method to reinforce how ridiculous it is that Rhaegar would have planned to have two living sons with the name Aegon. It's why, if it is true, I can only presume it was Lyanna chose the name for some reason.

One reason I could think of is to honour Rhaegar's memory and that of his first son. She must've known that Rhaegar and his children were all dead, when she gave birth to Jon. The KG all new and she asked Ned to take care of him. Makes sense for her to call him Aegon. Still, I wonder if Rhaegar and Lyanna had discussed the name, prior to him going back to KL. If that's the case, and assuming his name is Aegon in the books as well, then, I agree with Apoplexy. If Rhaegar really thought Jon was TPtwP and that prince had to be named Aegon, why not? 

Aegon Jr. 

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It does bring in the question of predestination since Hodor was Hodor before Bran was born but it only happened because Bran created that link between the past and the present.

Sure, but it's hardly his fault. In a way, Bran too is following his destiny. His powers might've been enhanced after Jamie pushed him, but he was born a greenseer and the Bloodraven was waiting for him. 

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I have always found the scene in 'The Door' really confusing because it is never made clear when and where Bran stopped skinchanging Hodor. First time I saw it, I thought what Bran had accidentally done is turned Hodor into Wylls because we never actually see Bran skinchanging into Wylls even though we do see the eyes thing.

Me neither, the first time. But on a second viewing it was pretty clear that he warged into Hodor and not Wyly. The eyes thing with Wyly, and "looking" at Bran, happens only when Hodor is at the door and he hears Meera saying "Hold the door". Actually Bran too had his back turned to Wyly, but he turns and sees him while Meera says "hold the door".

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Also, I could never work out how exactly Bran was supposed to be still in the vision of the past while also carrying his body away and then holding the door. We see that Bran is still seeing the past, and looking around, while supposedly holding the door as Hodor. Ergo, the holding of the door must have been Hodor off his own back. The only way I could reason my way through it was that Bran was not skinchanging Hodor the whole time. If anything, I think it is a lot more interesting if Bran simply created the mental link between Wylls of the past and Hodor. Those last moments of the episode - it seemed clear to me that Bran had lost control of the matter. He was not holding the door through Hodor -- Hodor was holding that door himself. Wylls hears Meera through Bran so clearly because of the link Bran has created between the two. It is not unlike those moments in the books where Theon seems to overhear things Bran is hearing when Bran is presumably skinchanging Winterfell's Heart Tree.

This Idk either. It was never explained how exactly Bran's vision and powers works. But since in this scene he did skinchanged into Hodor while on his vision, I presume he can do both.

I do love the idea of Hodor holding the door on his own though. I find it rather poetic and just for his character.

[jcmontea]

11 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

We don't know too much about Rhaegar, but if he was really prophecy obsessed, he may have wanted the PTWP to have the name Aegon. If he was convinced somehow that his son with Lyanna was the PTWP, he could've easily chosen the name Aegon for Jon.

I agree with that. If you think your son and heir has an incredible destiny ahead of him and is going to help save the world than there is really no better name for a Targaryen than Aegon. 

[Angel Eyes]

10 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I agree with that. If you think your son and heir has an incredible destiny ahead of him and is going to help save the world than there is really no better name for a Targaryen than Aegon. 

That just makes him look like a dick.

[jcmontea]

Just now, Angel Eyes said:

That just makes him look like a dick.

He cheated on his wife and got another woman pregnant. Not sure naming his kid Aegon is what makes the whole thing dickish. 

[Angel Eyes]

22 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

He cheated on his wife and got another woman pregnant. Not sure naming his kid Aegon is what makes the whole thing dickish. 

Because he already has a kid named Aegon and it looks like his son with Elia is being replaced.

[jcmontea]

19 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Because he already has a kid named Aegon and it looks like his son with Elia is being replaced.

My point is he was already a dick. He had already left his wife for another woman. At this point the conversation is just how much of a dick he was. 

[AEJON TARGARYEN]

11 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

We don't know too much about Rhaegar, but if he was really prophecy obsessed, he may have wanted the PTWP to have the name Aegon. If he was convinced somehow that his son with Lyanna was the PTWP, he could've easily chosen the name Aegon for Jon.

Agree. It's an important name too, ASOIAF's version of Henry: "What better name for a king?"

15 hours ago, jcmontea said:

60% they both survive. 40% one dies. 10% they both die is where i tend to fall. You?

60% one dies, 38% they both survive, 2% they both die. One of them has to survive.

(EDIT: I was just writing random percentages lol) 

"Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?"

[jcmontea]

33 minutes ago, TRILOGY said:

Agree. It's an important name too, ASOIAF's version of Henry: "What better name for a king?"

60% one dies, 38% they both survive, 2% they both die. One of them has to survive.

(EDIT: I was just writing random percentages lol) 

"Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?"

That is a great quote. Def makes me think at the very least one of them survive. The story has them go through the trials of leadership and ruling before the end game so that we know that the one that ends up there will be a good ruler because we saw them learn how to rule and not just because they are a good person or come from the right family and we have a sense for how they will rule because we saw them do it.

I lean towards both surviving because of that original outline and to maintain the parallelism in their story. But maybe the reason you have two is so you can kill one off. 

[Adaneth]

4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

That just makes him look like a dick.

Obviously there is much more to the whole story that we know right now. But one thing for sure is that characters are flawed. Even Ned or Jon. All of them have done smth wrong, a bad decision that maybe they thought it was for good reason. When smb makes a mistake, takes a very wrong decision, it is also important to understand the motivation behind it. Right now Rhaegar-Elia-Lyanna story is covered in mystery. Especially the relationship with Elia, which we never get to know how she felt about all this. Not even how she felt when Rhaegar named Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty. I found that very curious. Personally, I don't think Rahegar was a "perfect" human being/prince, but neither do I think he was a dick. 

[jcmontea]

8 hours ago, Caterina Sforza said:

Obviously there is much more to the whole story that we know right now. But one thing for sure is that characters are flawed. Even Ned or Jon. All of them have done smth wrong, a bad decision that maybe they thought it was for good reason. When smb makes a mistake, takes a very wrong decision, it is also important to understand the motivation behind it. Right now Rhaegar-Elia-Lyanna story is covered in mystery. Especially the relationship with Elia, which we never get to know how she felt about all this. Not even how she felt when Rhaegar named Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty. I found that very curious. Personally, I don't think Rahegar was a "perfect" human being/prince, but neither do I think he was a dick. 

This is a good point. 

[JonSnowed]

I just feel if the dragons are there then that's the end battle, there needs to be something to make this a last resort, also I assume team human don't know the Nights King has a mount at this stage so fear of him downing one with ice spears may work short term.

[jcmontea]

This video is a really interesting take on Jon being both Dragon and Wolf

 

[Angel Eyes]

On 11/24/2017 at 3:12 AM, Caterina Sforza said:

Obviously there is much more to the whole story that we know right now. But one thing for sure is that characters are flawed. Even Ned or Jon. All of them have done smth wrong, a bad decision that maybe they thought it was for good reason. When smb makes a mistake, takes a very wrong decision, it is also important to understand the motivation behind it. Right now Rhaegar-Elia-Lyanna story is covered in mystery. Especially the relationship with Elia, which we never get to know how she felt about all this. Not even how she felt when Rhaegar named Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty. I found that very curious. Personally, I don't think Rahegar was a "perfect" human being/prince, but neither do I think he was a dick. 

But declaring his marriage with Elia annulled, which results in prior children being labeled bastards (read: Elizabeth I) and having his child with Lyanna named Aegon while his son Aegon with Elia was still alive? It reeks of him viewing his son with Elia as expendable. 

[Beardy the Wildling]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

It reeks of him viewing his son with Elia as expendable. 

I suppose the whole affair doesn't necessarily stop the war being 'based on a lie', but Rhaegar's dickery does make that shit heartwarming music they play for the 'he loved her, and she loved him' bullshit played over boatsex come off as super, super fucked up.

Rhaegar, the madman who fucked over a kingdom by remaining silent about his annulments and second marriages.

[Angel Eyes]

3 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I suppose the whole affair doesn't necessarily stop the war being 'based on a lie', but Rhaegar's dickery does make that shit heartwarming music they play for the 'he loved her, and she loved him' bullshit played over boatsex come off as super, super fucked up.

Rhaegar, the madman who fucked over a kingdom by remaining silent about his annulments and second marriages.

Did you get the pun associated with the link?

[jcmontea]

34 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I suppose the whole affair doesn't necessarily stop the war being 'based on a lie', but Rhaegar's dickery does make that shit heartwarming music they play for the 'he loved her, and she loved him' bullshit played over boatsex come off as super, super fucked up.

Rhaegar, the madman who fucked over a kingdom by remaining silent about his annulments and second marriages.

I would love to get Rhaegar's perspective on this whole situation but unfortunatley I don't think we will get that from the show. 

However, my hyopthesis is that Rhaegar will end up looking a lot better. All the reveals seem to be in the direction of building him up into the “good guy” and the person who Westeros would have been better off having as King.

[Angel Eyes]

12 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I would love to get Rhaegar's perspective on this whole situation but unfortunatley I don't think we will get that from the show. 

However, my hyopthesis is that Rhaegar will end up looking a lot better. All the reveals seem to be in the direction of building him up into the “good guy” and the person who Westeros would have been better off having as King.

So how would Robert and Ned look? The villains?

[jcmontea]

10 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So how would Robert and Ned look? The villains?

Broadly speaking I think one of the ideas of the series is that there are heros and villains on both sides of every war and that the justness or injustness of a cause frequently depends on just whose viewpoint your adopting. So in general Rhaegar looking better or being a “hero” does not make Robert and Ned necessarily villains. 

More specifically I doubt Ned will be made to look a villain at all. If anything he looks better and better as the seasons pass. 

Robert on the other hand, who knows. If he knew Lyanna loved Rhaegar and went with him willingly but invented that lie to save face than he wouldn’t look so good. Really depends on whst he actually knew

[Beardy the Wildling]

14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Did you get the pun associated with the link?

But of course